Husseinisdoingfine

Can ethnic identities exist in the perfect world

21 posts in this topic

I came across this Ken Wilber video

Fascinating stuff. As our consciousness expands, our circle of care and concern expands as well. But, get this, our new expanded circles of concern build on top of the old ones. Someone who is ethnocentric, does not simply forget their tribal centric (caring about family and immediate community), or egocentric (taking care of oneself), circles of concerns. The identification with Nation builds on top the identification with community and self, the need to care for the community and self does not go away just because someone's circle of concern and care has expanded to ethnocentric.

So, in the perfect world...

Do people still identify with their ethnicity, but that comes before identification with being on spaceship Earth. Or should all ethnocentric identities be eroded, no one is American, Japanese, Chinese, etc... We are simply all humans on Earth.


لا إله إلا الله، وليو رسول الله

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10 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Do people still identify with their ethnicity, but that comes before identification with being on spaceship Earth. Or should all ethnocentric identities be eroded, no one is American, Japanese, Chinese, etc... We are simply all humans on Earth.

 

I think part of it is a lexicon problem pertaining to the term identity. It's not so much that ethnocentric identities should be eroded, but rather the term should be reconfigured to reflect that they were never really identities to begin with. Modes and states yes, but identities no.

Ultimately there is only one true identity, which is the identity of Universal Self. To identify with anything other than that is as ludicrous as identifying with what kind of T-shirt you are currently wearing.

If I am currently wearing a blue T-shirt, I would not say "I am a blue T-shirt", but neither does it mean we should throw all blue T-shirts away and not enjoy them for what they are.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Do people still identify with their ethnicity, but that comes before identification with being on spaceship Earth. Or should all ethnocentric identities be eroded, no one is American, Japanese, Chinese, etc... We are simply all humans on Earth. 

It should be treated in the same way nationalists treat their family. 

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I think ethnicities are very beautiful and unique and they should be embraced and respected for their differences. 

I wouldn't like ethnicities to be eroded because then it takes away the uniqueness and beauty it offers. 

There are so many beautiful experiences in interracial friendships and relationships 

If I meet a man or woman from a different ethnicity, I instantly jump with joy. 

 

Distance grows the heart fonder. So does ethnicity. 

 


 INTP loner... .shy girl.. The devil loves me a bit too much. 

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It is very beautiful that we have different people everywhere in the world and this increases our potential to learn and explore. But is it not OK that one's well-being can often be greatly affected by one's identity. What do you think, would you say our society is fair? Would you not be afraid to enter it, if you did not know which race, religion, social class, caste, country, family etc. you'd be born into?

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@Lucas-fgm  Yeh bro, they are exploiting all the time, even today, not just Switzerland. There is almost an impossibility of ethical consumption in today's world. I study in India so I have seen the poverty first hand. I am also dating an Indian girl. Thanks for showing people this perspective.

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I’m torn when it comes to the big question of identity. I usually identify with my melanin and hair, which is an factor that inform my status in the ethnic hierarchy.
 

I think it is difficult to get rid of ethnicities though. Some features fare better in some environments. Consequently will people start to identify with their survival conditions and make up stories about the “good life”, all of which is a projection of the type of conditions which one is conditioned into, e.g circumstances one is trained to handle. 

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, ArcticGong said:

I’m torn when it comes to the big question of identity. I usually identify with my melanin and hair, which is an factor that inform my status in the ethnic hierarchy.

I think it is difficult to get rid of ethnicities though. Some features fare better in some environments. Consequently will people start to identify with their survival conditions and make up stories about the “good life”, all of which is a projection of the type of conditions which one is conditioned into, e.g circumstances one is trained to handle. 

I don't see anything wrong with identifying with your race, ethnicity or culture. It can be done in a healthy way. Celebrate your hair and your melanin. Embrace how different features help people survive in different conditions. It's beautiful. I think embracing your identity is a part of cultivating self love and acceptance. The only time it becomes a problem is when people see their background as superior to others, believe everyone should be like them, and think that there is something wrong with different identities. That's when it becomes ego. It's the attachment to the thing in question, not the thing itself. 

Basically, celebrate multiculturalism and don't try to make it some type of uniform blob because that can lead to all types of disaster and erasure. Don't get multiculturalism but get rid of discrimination, exploitation etc. 

Edited by soos_mite_ah

Speaking into the void that sometimes answers back 

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I already identify as just a human, so as many people I hope 😳

Not a French, not an Alsacien.

For sure I'm disturbed and lost when I go someplace else, but it's just because I don't know the language or culture, not because I feel French.

I'd say in some centuries, there will be far less states, if any, and the idea of racism will be seen as prehistoric.

 

 


Spirituality is not the renunciation of life

It is the art of living fully

 

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13 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Do people still identify with their ethnicity, but that comes before identification with being on spaceship Earth. Or should all ethnocentric identities be eroded, no one is American, Japanese, Chinese, etc... We are simply all humans on Earth.

That ethnocentric identity changes as perspective broaden, as development happens, as complexity of mind evolves, as values shift, becoming ever more inclusive, inceasing the previously defined boundaries stemming from previous values, resulting from a less holistic perspective.

From narrowly defined, to purpose driven, to worldly belonging, to holistic universal phenomena, and beyond, nonduality. 

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Maybe transcend the ethnic identity of 'earth human' for 'universal organism' and then transcend that one as well for 'transcendental being'... which also can be transcended.

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@SOUL  It can be transcended, but it is way easier if you are white. You know like African hairstyles are considered unprofessional, people lose interviews because of wearing them. Light skin is considered more attractive in so many countries. You can be white-passing as a Latino or Arab physically, but the uselessness of your passport still limits you so much. If you are Latino-passing or Arab-passing as a white person, you dont get these issues, you just show your papers, your place of origin, you can wear all sorts of hairstyles or whatever and still enjoy your privileges. It is very easy to tell someone "just transcend this idea" or "it is only an imaginary idea" or "celebrate your origin" but like is it possible to celebrate something that you are punished for and disadvantaged for constantly, fearing hate crimes? 

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@bejapuskas  You completely missed my point.

Although, I agree it's impossible to transcend another's perception and their treatment of others from their bias is not an easy thing to tell someone to transcend.

Of course that wasn't my point....maybe you should read my post again with fresh eyes.

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12 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

@SOUL  It can be transcended, but it is way easier if you are white. You know like African hairstyles are considered unprofessional, people lose interviews because of wearing them. Light skin is considered more attractive in so many countries. You can be white-passing as a Latino or Arab physically, but the uselessness of your passport still limits you so much. If you are Latino-passing or Arab-passing as a white person, you dont get these issues, you just show your papers, your place of origin, you can wear all sorts of hairstyles or whatever and still enjoy your privileges. It is very easy to tell someone "just transcend this idea" or "it is only an imaginary idea" or "celebrate your origin" but like is it possible to celebrate something that you are punished for and disadvantaged for constantly, fearing hate crimes? 

Truth.

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@SOUL  Sorry boss, I just misunderstood what you meant by the word transcend, so sorry 🙏

 

 

 

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@bejapuskas  That's cool, bro, I understand the frustration some may feel when someone tells them to essentially 'get over it' when they say 'transcend it' to a very real personal experience of discrimination or oppression in this world. I would not want to be this way.

Although, if I were to break it down even further if someone were to say transcend the ego pain and suffering that can come from those types of experiences because it will allow them to heal and cultivate well being this I can agree with and suggest may be beneficial.

This doesn't mean someone has to ignore the injustice that others may perpetrate upon them but if one is coming from the healing of well being when these types of situations arise they will act in accordance with the well being and not from the pain and suffering.

So we can simultaneously transcend the ego attachment to the experience while also acting in accordance to well being that may actually have a positive influence on others and the circumstances. We can radiate well being through the experience and not allow others to inspire misery in us.

This does not excuse those that would bring harm to others but it also recognizes they themselves are acting out of their own misery which is the motivation for the harm they would attempt to bring to others. We should not fail to acknowledge the cycle of suffering this world breeds and perpetuates.

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29 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

@cookiemonster What do you think about what he Is saying, are these your words too?

 

I think it's a well conceived synopsis of the ideal to which we should be striving for. The question is how?

My own related take is that detribalization and de-identification has to be voluntary, yet encouraged and supported whenever a person feels ready.

Personally I no longer identify with any race nor ethnicity, and when anyone tries to tell me otherwise I just politely smile.

In a recent Rupert Spira video posted on YouTube, a lady in the audience (not seen on camera) speaks to Rupert about her sense of conflict in being a person of color, while at the same time realizing that she is not a person at all. She explains that she wants more than anything to not be a race nor ethnicity, yet the conflict pertains to the sense of guilt she feels in regards to betraying her race and its traumatic history.

After a lengthy and polite dialogue between herself and Rupert, she finally says the words that she had always wanted to say: "I am not a black woman."

Rupert smiles and agrees, but they both concur that only she could have said that.

That's the way forward (IMHO).

 

 

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