What's up with this whole 'daddy' thing?

[ivankiss]

@StarStruck

Yeah, my original post is meant to be a bit provocative. But I ain't bullying anyone here - like @Heart of Space is claiming. And I also got my shit under control.

I made my point clear. I think it's (more often than not) a toxic dynamic. That's it.

[Emerald]

23 hours ago, Heart of Space said:

He personally admitted to having an insecurity and was blaming and shaming others for his own issues.  That is text book bullying.  

You're essentially coddling someone who was in the process of sexually shaming women for his own issues.  

He should deal with his issues in the right way.  He has no excuse, he is clearly a fully grown man.  I did not react the wrong way to the situation.

I even got banned for it.  I'll do it again too.  They can ban me each time and I'll continue doing it.  Period.  

I'm just saying that your way of responding is not really reflective of the situation. I genuinely don't think he means harm. It's more ignorance to the experience of fetish and being a bit of a bull in a china shop. And perhaps his own issues being mixed in there.

And the issue with your response (though I understand that this may be personally hurtful) is that it just isn't very helpful at getting him (or more importantly for rhetorical purposes OTHERS on the thread) to understand. Basically, it's bad optics and doesn't hearten anyone to those that are dealing with fetishes and kinks.

But you just have to make the decision, "Do I want to lash out and express my anger?" or "Do I want to educate people and help people understand?"

Either way, it's a valid decision. 

Your reaction is a reflection of the former, which is fine. It's not your responsibility to educate anyone. But you should understand that your intense emotions reaction is ineffective if your goal is to educate and open people's minds. 

[Heart of Space]

2 hours ago, Emerald said:

I'm just saying that your way of responding is not really reflective of the situation. I genuinely don't think he means harm. It's more ignorance to the experience of fetish and being a bit of a bull in a china shop. And perhaps his own issues being mixed in there.

And the issue with your response (though I understand that this may be personally hurtful) is that it just isn't very helpful at getting him (or more importantly for rhetorical purposes OTHERS on the thread) to understand. Basically, it's bad optics and doesn't hearten anyone to those that are dealing with fetishes and kinks.

But you just have to make the decision, "Do I want to lash out and express my anger?" or "Do I want to educate people and help people understand?"

Either way, it's a valid decision. 

Your reaction is a reflection of the former, which is fine. It's not your responsibility to educate anyone. But you should understand that your intense emotions reaction is ineffective if your goal is to educate and open people's minds. 

That's not a very good response, @Emerald.

Ignorance could be used as a justification for literally anything.  You're acting like data from Star Trek, dude.  Humans are not robots, not everything is solved by feeding people objective data.  That's not how humans work.  

It's definitely not my responsibility to educate him.  

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Heart of Space

[ivankiss]

@Heart of Space

You don't have to educate me, dude. Just stop wining and describe what exactly is bugging you in a few sentences. What's your problem - other than I personally?

I'm cool with being ignorant of something or in the wrong. But at least try making some sense and not just rage mindlessly.

 

[Emerald]

3 hours ago, Heart of Space said:

That's not a very good response, @Emerald.

Ignorance could be used as a justification for literally anything.  You're acting like data from Star Trek, dude.  Humans are not robots, not everything is solved by feeding people objective data.  That's not how humans work.  

It's definitely not my responsibility to educate him.  

 

That's fine if you want to respond in the way you have. Like I said, it's your choice.

But keep in mind, you will be playing a role in shaping public opinion of those who have sub fetishes... whether it's fair or not or whether you like it or not. And when you react this way, you're giving away all your levers of power.

When you're the one that's coming unglued (no matter how correct you are), you and your viewpoint is going to be marginalized and taken less seriously by the general populace who are mostly ignorant to these realities. This is especially true, given that the OP is clearly not consciously trying to bully anyone and you totally flipped out on him like he was. 

It just shows you're a bit out of touch with the reality of the situation and projection ill-intent when there is not. And you're turning what could be a teaching moment (not just for him but others) into a shaming of righteous indignation from up on a high horse. 

And as someone with some sub fetishes, it isn't like we're an oppressed class. So, I totally think you should have enough self-control to TYPE about it coherently without showing that you're freaked out about it. 

If we were having this conversation face-to-face in realtime, I could buy that you'd get triggered and say some harsh words. I would understand.

But you're TYPING over the course of a week and still haven't evened your tone of demonization. You're still being condescending.

I mean, I get super triggered all the time about all the misogynistic stuff that's said on here because it goes over all my wounds... and yet I can still keep be measured in my typing enough to come across as the adult in the room. And you want to know why I do that... because there's persuasive power in being the adult in the room.

If I started calling these guys assholes and being belligerent myself and freaking out, certainly it's understandable. It's an attack on who I am.

But I also know (whether it's fair or not), that if I respond erratically in these scenarios that I lose the battle of optics and thus all of my persuasive power with it... and I give it ALL to them to say, "See... exhibit A". And that persuasive power is not necessarily for the person I'm in debate with. It's for all those in the public forum looking onward who are fence sitters.

So, if I have the best optics... I've won. 

And you are losing the optics battle on this one... big time. Just being honest, you look like a lunatic on this thread. And you've thrown away all your power. And likely no one has sympathized with your point of view. 

Edited June 8, 2021 by Emerald

[Heart of Space]

46 minutes ago, Emerald said:

That's fine if you want to respond in the way you have. Like I said, it's your choice.

But keep in mind, you will be playing a role in shaping public opinion of those who have sub fetishes... whether it's fair or not or whether you like it or not. And when you react this way, you're giving away all your levers of power.

When you're the one that's coming unglued (no matter how correct you are), you and your viewpoint is going to be marginalized and taken less seriously by the general populace who are mostly ignorant to these realities. This is especially true, given that the OP is clearly not consciously trying to bully anyone and you totally flipped out on him like he was. 

It just shows you're a bit out of touch with the reality of the situation and projection ill-intent when there is not. And you're turning what could be a teaching moment (not just for him but others) into a shaming of righteous indignation from up on a high horse. 

And as someone with some sub fetishes, it isn't like we're an oppressed class. So, I totally think you should have enough self-control to TYPE about it coherently without showing that you're freaked out about it. 

If we were having this conversation face-to-face in realtime, I could buy that you'd get triggered and say some harsh words. I would understand.

But you're TYPING over the course of a week and still haven't evened your tone of demonization. You're still being condescending.

I mean, I get super triggered all the time about all the misogynistic stuff that's said on here because it goes over all my wounds... and yet I can still keep be measured in my typing enough to come across as the adult in the room. And you want to know why I do that... because there's persuasive power in being the adult in the room.

If I started calling these guys assholes and being belligerent myself and freaking out, certainly it's understandable. It's an attack on who I am.

But I also know (whether it's fair or not), that if I respond erratically in these scenarios that I lose the battle of optics and thus all of my persuasive power with it... and I give it ALL to them to say, "See... exhibit A". And that persuasive power is not necessarily for the person I'm in debate with. It's for all those in the public forum looking onward who are fence sitters.

So, if I have the best optics... I've won. 

And you are losing the optics battle on this one... big time. Just being honest, you look like a lunatic on this thread. And you've thrown away all your power. And likely no one has sympathized with your point of view. 

Unconscious behavior or ignorant behavior are the exact same thing.  Neither is an excuse as you could literally justify A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G by classifying it that way.  You're just reframing the same argument.  

I wasn't projecting ill intent, I was just saying what he was doing.

You bring up optics like that matters, I wasn't posting with optics in mind, so that criticism is completely null.  You can't criticize people on the basis of general optics if they aren't consciously appealing to general optics.  

In addition, you're projecting an astronomical amount of stuff onto post.  You're acting like you can read my mind.  Trust me you can't.  You'd be shocked if you actually knew who I was and what was thinking when I made those posts.  You shouldn't pretend to know.  

But please, continue to coddle grown men acting like bullies if that's what they pay you for.  Keep making excuses for toxic behavior, that's your prerogative.  I'm gonna hold people accountable.  

Girl, you're trying way too hard to be measured and come across reasonable.  It just looks like you're bottling your real feelings in order to satisfy your ego.  If something makes you feel a certain way you should express it.  That's my perspective, be you.  

Edit:  srry for errors I'm posting on my mobile phone 

I'm not typing over the course of a week.  I treat this forum like Twitter on my phone, goofball.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Heart of Space

[tatsumaru]

11 hours ago, Heart of Space said:

Unconscious behavior or ignorant behavior are the exact same thing.  Neither is an excuse as you could literally justify A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G by classifying it that way.  You're just reframing the same argument.  

I wasn't projecting ill intent, I was just saying what he was doing.

You bring up optics like that matters, I wasn't posting with optics in mind, so that criticism is completely null.  You can't criticize people on the basis of general optics if they aren't consciously appealing to general optics.  

In addition, you're projecting an astronomical amount of stuff onto post.  You're acting like you can read my mind.  Trust me you can't.  You'd be shocked if you actually knew who I was and what was thinking when I made those posts.  You shouldn't pretend to know.  

But please, continue to coddle grown men acting like bullies if that's what they pay you for.  Keep making excuses for toxic behavior, that's your prerogative.  I'm gonna hold people accountable.  

Girl, you're trying way too hard to be measured and come across reasonable.  It just looks like you're bottling your real feelings in order to satisfy your ego.  If something makes you feel a certain way you should express it.  That's my perspective, be you.  

Edit:  srry for errors I'm posting on my mobile phone 

I'm not typing over the course of a week.  I treat this forum like Twitter on my phone, goofball.

Ignorance isn't an excuse, it's a reason/cause.

[Heart of Space]

Just now, tatsumaru said:

Ignorance isn't an excuse, it's a reason/cause.

You literally just repeated what I said.  

[tatsumaru]

2 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

You literally just repeated what I said.  

Great. That must mean we agree on something.

[Etherial Cat]

12 hours ago, Emerald said:

That's fine if you want to respond in the way you have. Like I said, it's your choice.

But keep in mind, you will be playing a role in shaping public opinion of those who have sub fetishes... whether it's fair or not or whether you like it or not. And when you react this way, you're giving away all your levers of power.

When you're the one that's coming unglued (no matter how correct you are), you and your viewpoint is going to be marginalized and taken less seriously by the general populace who are mostly ignorant to these realities. This is especially true, given that the OP is clearly not consciously trying to bully anyone and you totally flipped out on him like he was. 

It just shows you're a bit out of touch with the reality of the situation and projection ill-intent when there is not. And you're turning what could be a teaching moment (not just for him but others) into a shaming of righteous indignation from up on a high horse. 

And as someone with some sub fetishes, it isn't like we're an oppressed class. So, I totally think you should have enough self-control to TYPE about it coherently without showing that you're freaked out about it. 

If we were having this conversation face-to-face in realtime, I could buy that you'd get triggered and say some harsh words. I would understand.

But you're TYPING over the course of a week and still haven't evened your tone of demonization. You're still being condescending.

I mean, I get super triggered all the time about all the misogynistic stuff that's said on here because it goes over all my wounds... and yet I can still keep be measured in my typing enough to come across as the adult in the room. And you want to know why I do that... because there's persuasive power in being the adult in the room.

If I started calling these guys assholes and being belligerent myself and freaking out, certainly it's understandable. It's an attack on who I am.

But I also know (whether it's fair or not), that if I respond erratically in these scenarios that I lose the battle of optics and thus all of my persuasive power with it... and I give it ALL to them to say, "See... exhibit A". And that persuasive power is not necessarily for the person I'm in debate with. It's for all those in the public forum looking onward who are fence sitters.

So, if I have the best optics... I've won. 

And you are losing the optics battle on this one... big time. Just being honest, you look like a lunatic on this thread. And you've thrown away all your power. And likely no one has sympathized with your point of view. 

?

[ivankiss]

Look... Some of you people here might know something I don't. And that's ok. If you like it and know why you're doing it; cool, go fuck your daddy. Or be someone's daddy. Yeah I'm lowkey judging you all and telling you you're kinda sick, but so what? If I enjoy doing something; there's little to nothing anyone can say or do to stop me. So why should you stop? Certainly not because some guy said something on the internet. If triggered; laugh it off and keep doing your shit. If you have a valid argument; share that in a reasonable manner. 

Anything bellow that simply cannot be taken seriously.

What I'm trying to understand here (although I kinda lost interest by this point) is why people try to turn their lover into a parent figure. To me it's seems that it's because they did not have those needs met in their childhood. At what point, how and why does it turn into a sexual thing - I don't know. But I find it kinda twisted. It's just me.

What I do find very hot tho is the sub-dom dynamic in general. Just don't fucking involve your family into the roleplay, for the love of God haha.

I like being transparent on this forum... Last night I had some crazy, out-of-this-world sex with a very submissive girl. She's 20. I'm 27. Obviously; she's looking for someone older and more dominant. She mentioned she's into this guy who's 45. So yeah, haha, there's that. Obvious signs.

But here's the thing...

I ain't cooking for her and doing her laundry. I ain't thinking of her teenage problems constantly and trying to solve them for her. I'm not parenting her. I'm not her daddy. Not in the bedroom and not outside of it.

I'm just an older, more experienced guy who know how to fuck her good. What exactly is going on in her mind - I don't know. Who knows what kind of a story she's got going on there. But as long as she respects our agreement; I've got nothing to complain about.

Maybe I'm being a hypocrite, yes... Or a devil - if you will. But can you blame me? I like me some good sex. And as long as we ain't hurting each-other, or fucking up our psychology - it's a green light to me.

[MatteO22]

@ivankiss actually I kinda understand what the person who apparently got all triggered about what you said meant. I’m sure there’s no need for an angry outburst or an attempt to attack you, but I do think that you come across as condescending and dismissive of people’s experiences.

 

I think we can all learn to be more tolerant. Not to attack, not to dismiss but just simply respect the uniqueness and differences we all embody. 
 

If you say ‘I’m judging you, so what you shouldn’t care.’ is a lesser version of saying ‘hey I hurt you and you shouldn’t care about that because if your self esteem was healthier you wouldn’t take it as personally’.

 

What about not hurting someone in the first place and letting their self-esteem be in any shape it is - just saying, sounds much more balanced and kind my man. 

Edited June 8, 2021 by MatteO22

[MatteO22]

12 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

What I'm trying to understand here (although I kinda lost interest by this point) is why people try to turn their lover into a parent figure.

What Id like to bring your attention to is that as individuals with different levels of trauma we all at a certain point May project parental qualities onto our partners and other people and that’s okay.

 

what is more interesting though is that your attitude is rather parental (at least in this thread). Telling someone ‘oh you poor traumatised soul’... sounds like a daddy thing to say! Daddy, wink.

 

Maybe you just wanna be everyone’s daddy and rescue them from their pain and are afraid of that truth... daddy

[ivankiss]

@MatteO22 Yes, I get that. Not judging or - as you put it - hurting people would be the healthiest way to go about this - or anything else. 

But that's not always how life unfolds. Sometimes I judge people and the shit they do. If someone tells you they don't ever judge anyone; they're full of shit.

[MatteO22]

@ivankiss it’s not how life unfolds until you choose to respond differently. Just because you have judgements about things (as we all do) doesn’t mean you have to project judgemental attitude towards others, because a moment of judgement is a moment of internal healing that requires for you to pay attention to yourself, it’s not a moment to go tell others how much you judge them in hopes they won’t care and will somehow accept you with your judgements regardless. 

[bejapuskas]

I think you guys agree on the fundamentals like having boundaries in a relationship, comminicating, not being dependant in relationships, not fucking up each other psychologically etc. That's all good. Can we acknowledge that we actually agree on some things and discuss them?

@ivankiss  I know you acknowledged that calling the person one's having sex with daddy is not always an issue, and it's good that you don't completely neglect the variety of perspectives and subjective experiences presented to you in this conversation. But you also say that one cannot really know what's going on in somebody's head, so why would you assume you know the cause of this? I mean, you even said that this behavior is toxic "in most cases". How do you know this, are you just guessing? I don't know whether this is fair. And there are people on here who have wounds and unaccepted sides of themselves, I am sure you can relate, it's serious stuff. I understand they cannot really stop you from behaving like that, because you can just type and press enter, but if we as a collective moved in this direction of presenting one-sided views and neglecting the multitude of perspectives, this forum would become totally useless and we would be unable to arrive at conclusions. There is benefit to not triggering other people's wounds in a group conversations. Even if you were right about this, by offending or triggering somebody with your language, you are making them feel unsafe and practically that means you are losing their perspective.

If you are seriously trying to understand the human psyche, which I think you are, you should consider not being as violent in your communication, because even hurt people have valid perspectives to share and it might help you actually understand them and decrease your judgement which might often be based on nothing.

 

[ivankiss]

7 minutes ago, MatteO22 said:

Maybe you just wanna be everyone’s daddy and rescue them from their pain and are afraid of that truth... daddy

You might be onto something there 

I know how to be dominant and assertive. And even a dick - if needed. And I do have a strong sense of right/wrong. What I don't do is bully or abuse people. It's just not who I am.

Provoking and poking for a 'higher cause'? Sure. But not attacking or abusing.

I find miy original post funny. It's meant to be a more loosy goosy post. But also; a nudge or a hint.

Edited June 8, 2021 by ivankiss

[ivankiss]

@MatteO22 @bejapuskas Look, guys, I understand where you're coming from and I appreciate your effort. It was just a low quality post. Meant more for fun than anything else. I was not aware of how that might trigger or hurt some people. 

I do have my opinions about the topic and I certainly could express that in a nicer way. It's not like I'm not capable of doing that. It's just that it's not how I chose to go about it this time. I have plenty of other serious, heart-centered posts here. So what if I say a thing or two that's inappropriate, here and there.

Part of my journey is allowing myself to do just that now. In reasonable measures.

[bejapuskas]

@ivankiss  Yeh I known you are a heart centered guy. I dont think Its a waste of time to talk to you about things, how others might perceive them, I appreciate you being a part of this forum. .) I understand you are a serious learner.

Sometimes one makes a low quality post without thinking much perhaps and it triggers some people. Just be more mindful in longer conversations. As you said, its difficult to see into other peoples minds and the truth about experiences is all about interlretation and subjectivity, people come from different backgrounds here and we need to communicate concretely and compassionately in accordance to this. 

Sometimes jokes or things that are not said seriously can point out at some harsh realities of the people who these jokes target. For you it might be joke, for somebody else it might be hard to interpret as a joke because they might think you are not considering their presence on the forum and life experience seriously enough for them to feel safe about expressing themselves.

I mean sure dont date girls who you cannot tolerate, its for both of you guys' greater good. But then if you ask a question, dont overlook responses from people who are trying to give you different perspectives, if they are reasonable and not just some troll content yeh.

[Zeroguy]

Well I am not english speaking area but some american women calling me daddy, Well it will turn me on for sure. 

 

Edited June 8, 2021 by Zeroguy