Soonhei (Member of this community) killed himself to experience Conscious Death. :-(

[Mu_]

14 minutes ago, tuckerwphotography said:

@Mu_ Will do. Just to share, from my understanding this seems to contradict one of Leo's central teachings, which is that what I am experiencing right here right now is all there is. This is the entire Universe. There is nothing else except what is in my direct experience, whether that's a "human" view or anything else. Is this a misunderstanding of Leo's teaching? 

@Leo Gura

Its not in your direct experience that drinking bleach will kill you, but I'd advice against it.  There's so much more subtly that your not fully grasping yet and should watch more of his content to round out this simplisticness.

[Tobia]

Reading this thread is shocking. A human being like you just died and left his family behind. His family members are literally reading this discussion.

And what do people do here? Bicker like children about meaningless philosophies and who is to blame, who is right and wrong, me me me, my opinion...

who cares?

No respect, no sensitivity, no compassion, no gentleness, no sense of consideration for his family reading this mess. Wow.

[Mu_]

40 minutes ago, Scholar said:

I think you really need to step back and realize how you are literally rationalizing to a degree that it is becoming childish. Christianity as an ideology is and was tremendously harmful. Of course it was necessary, but we have grown wise enough to let go of it and not repeat the same mistakes.

We should criticise Buddhism aswell, and all tradtions. It doesn't matter what tradition it is, if it does something that causes harm, we should poiint that out and seek change.

 

This is basic "how-aboutism", google the term. I understand your need to defend Leo and your own identity. Nobody here is "blaming Leo", or demanding him to be perfect. We are simply pointing to areas he can improve in. What you are doing is exceptionally dangerous especially in a spiritual community. I can disagree with Leo, I can criticise what he does. This is what a community does, we take each other into account and we share our perspectives. Your attempt to invalidate anyone who is "speaking against" Leo is unhealthy.

 

I am not pointing fingers or blaming, I have repeatedly said this. I am challenging Leo because I think it is the right thing to do. You guys are behaving like children and this is a serious issue. Stop defending a full grown man from something that is not even done in any bad faith. Most people here are reasonable, concerned and compassionate. We aren't out to get or blame Leo.

 

I think a lot of the "criticism" is natural, I'm not trying to defend Leo what so ever, he's not my guru and honestly I have a lot of different views of things then him, and am even surprised I'm a mod on his forum.  I'm just putting information out there as well as highlighting its not always easy to place a cause or "blame" on something.  I get it, you feel strongly, it was a tragic thing that happened.  Maybe step back for a few days, feel out what happened, ask yourself if your coming at this with your own biases.  Right now you seem dead convinced of your view being objective and are coming at this rather intensely with what seems to be a blame.

[Scholar]

9 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

I think a lot of the "criticism" is natural, I'm not trying to defend Leo what so ever, he's not my guru and honestly I have a lot of different views of things then him, and am even surprised I'm a mod on his forum.  I'm just putting information out there as well as highlighting its not always easy to place a cause or "blame" on something.  I get it, you feel strongly, it was a tragic thing that happened.  Maybe step back for a few days, feel out what happened, ask yourself if your coming at this with your own biases.  Right now you seem dead convinced of your view being objective and are coming at this rather intensely with what seems to be a blame.

What do you think is my view? Give a summary.

[Inliytened1]

Guys let's not tarnish the thread with debate.  

[The0Self]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Guys let's not tarnish the thread with debate.  

Agreed.

Edited May 20, 2021 by The0Self

[SS10]

I have been of the forum for a few weeks and have only come back now - I have spent the last 2 hours reading this.

Can this thread be closed please @Leo Gura ?

The whole thread is just filled with bickering, scapegoating and reactionary. Nobody wins by leaving this thread upon.

If killing yourself is what you've understood from the content here then you have deluded yourself existentially. 

 

[outlandish]

This is a pretty important topic @SS10 it would be premature to shut it down already.

[hoodrow trillson]

I am so sorry for your loss, my condolences.

[Windappreciator]

38 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Guys let's not tarnish the thread with debate.  

This is a good opportunity to discuss our behaviour and image to the outside world. Including that of our cult leader.

Maybe we ain't that ripe?

Edited May 20, 2021 by Windappreciator

[mikelyons]

I have experienced a lot of suicidal ideation, but my integrity is staked on:
The #1 rule of this work: I will not harm the physical body.
I'll take good care of it, give it adequate rest, feed it well and good, and see a doctor when needed.

This teaching stood out to me in recent Actualized video, it's explicit so it's inescapable.

No matter what the content of the game, the structure is such that you must live your full life and fulfill your Life Purpose.

So no suicide allowed! 

800-273-8255
https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/
https://www.sprc.org/
https://www.doh.wa.gov/YouandYourFamily/InjuryandViolencePrevention/SuicidePrevention

Edited May 20, 2021 by mikelyons
Explaining a bit and adding death warning picture and suicide prevention resources

[Consilience]

What happened here speaks to the depth of these teachings. I believe this is why someone like Peter Ralston considers himself a "facilitator" (specifically not a teacher) and is incredibly cheeky, and at times, totally ambiguous with his communications about the deepest truths. This is why someone like Shinzen Young is so strict about teaching about mindfulness and not the philosophical implications of what the practice reveals. I believe this is why Gurus, Zen masters, etc., have a reputation of intentionally holding back how much they're willing to share with their students. If the student is not ready the results of repeatedly hearing these types of teachings can be disastrous. 

Yet on the other hand, even if someone where not psychologically ready to hear, "life is a dream, you are God, you were never born, you'll never die, your entire self and life is imagination, etc." I do not think the results would be suicide or self harm. At worst, someone may be plunged into an existential depression and at best, it could be the shell shock they needed to hear to begin their spiritual journey. For those with genuine mental illness, it doesn't really matter what the trigger is. It could be radical non-dual teachings, or it could be utterly self-derived delusional thinking. 

I do think there is inherent risk with the way Actualized.org has so successfully marketed itself across the internet, and the unintentional consequences that could result from these utterly radical ideas becoming so mainstream. However, I think there is a deeper risk with these teachings not becoming mainstream. Humanity is at an inflection point with our level of technological power; we are so severely lacking in a mature, compassionate, wise level of self-understanding. While these teachings may be utterly radical, and anti-thetical to the modern world's way of thinking, and therefore poses a certain level of risk, they are honest and authentic to one's direct experience of who and what they are. This type of radical self honesty is what the world is going to need if we are going to effectively face the growing number of existential threats on the horizon (increases in extreme weather events, rising sea levels, pollution of the oceans, world wide mass extinction, destruction of the rain forests, artificial intelligence, job loss as a result of artificial intelligence, gene editing, 3d printing, surveillance capitalism, virtual reality...)

In essence, it seems that what Actualized.org has done with advanced spiritual teachings may not be ideal for the individual in every case, but given the need of these models and ideas for the collective development of the world, it seems the collective impact of Leo's work outweigh's the inherent risk for any given individual. That's my view. 

As is explicitly specified in the forum guidelines, this work is not for those with mental illness. Sometimes mental illness does not present itself as depression, but can at times present itself as delusional thoughts and feelings of connection and bliss. There are many flavors and forms of mental illness. It would be unreasonable to expect that moderators or Leo to have the capacity to monitor for this type of stuff. We are a community that exchanges ideas and communications, not a professional mental health service. Of course if the signs present themselves it is paramount that we take the necessary steps to help the individual. I think this applies for all of us, not simply mods. But again, mental health services is not the function, nor was ever the intention, of this forum. 

It was truly a tragedy with what happened with SoonHie. It's affected me more deeply than I thought it would. I have no words for his family and loved ones other than I'm sorry for what has happened, and I'm sorry you have to continue without him. There are no words that can fill that void. May his soul rest easy and may you all feel and heal deeply. With love. 
 

[sat11]

On 5/19/2021 at 1:24 PM, Muhammad Jawad said:

Hello Everyone!

I am feeling really sad to share this news that Our Brother, Our Friend "Soonhei" (Member of this community) killed himself to experience the conscious death.

SoonHei was my best and only friend. :-(

He was very happy and have no issues in his life. These days he was contemplating death and dreams a lot and ultimately he decided to try conscious death and killed himself by jumping off from the Bridge in Canada by 3rd May 2021.

Before killing himself he was talking to me on WhatsApp and he was really happy and laughing on different matters as well.

SoonHei & Me had a long discussion about conscious death, the afterlife, and lucid dreaming the day he committed suicide. 

Few minutes before he jumped from the bridge to commit suicide he sent me the following message:

"I leave you my dream.
You already know, meet you in the beyond."

We can not imagine or understand how and why he can take that kind of decision. He left his family behind including a wife, and 2 little cute kids.

May God grant him the success he was trying to achieve :-(

According to me, it's the wrong decision he took.

What do you think? Does Committing suicide have any link with spirituality? 

Is this possible to liberate oneself from the cycle of birth and death ultimately and merge into consciousness by committing suicide after gaining enlightenment?

Waiting for other's views.

Thanks 

 

 

I've just read on this forum that some people take LSD. LSD is Dangerous and should not be used. It was likely your friend used it. Condolences and be careful and I would suggest don't do any type of drug 

[Godhead]

8 minutes ago, sat11 said:

I've just read on this forum that some people take LSD. LSD is Dangerous and should not be used. It was likely your friend used it. Condolences and be careful and I would suggest don't do any type of drug 

Consider doing some more research on LSD

Edited May 20, 2021 by Godhead

[sat11]

1 hour ago, mikelyons said:

I have experienced a lot of suicidal ideation, but my integrity is staked on:
The #1 rule of this work: I will not harm the physical body.
I'll take good care of it, give it adequate rest, feed it well and good, and see a doctor when needed.

This teaching stood out to me in recent Actualized video, it's explicit so it's inescapable.

No matter what the content of the game, the structure is such that you must live your full life and fulfill your Life Purpose.

So no suicide allowed! 

800-273-8255
https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/
https://www.sprc.org/
https://www.doh.wa.gov/YouandYourFamily/InjuryandViolencePrevention/SuicidePrevention

I honestly think and would suggest everyone in this forum leave as it seems to be dangerous, promoting drugs and someone has ended up dead. Just stating facts

[Megan Alecia]

The borderline cult mentality is far more dangerous than any drug in my view. Anyone and his mom can invent platitudes and the next thing you know, a person's killing himself for it. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Megan Alecia
DON'T BLAME THE VICTIMS you newbies here.

[Moksha]

From my interactions with @SoonHei, I feel he would read this thread, share some insights, and maybe crack a joke, to remind all of us that the spiritual journey is not about debating concepts, and is all about love.

Here's to honoring your memory, and applying your wisdom, Champ. ?

[lmfao]

14 minutes ago, sat11 said:

I honestly think and would suggest everyone in this forum leave as it seems to be dangerous, promoting drugs and someone has ended up dead. Just stating facts

@sat11 You walked through the front door here barely an hour ago, come on now

Edited May 20, 2021 by lmfao

[Consept]

3 hours ago, kieranperez said:

Looks like shit is hitting the fan as the word gets out about his death

 

This is an important discussion 

[Carl-Richard]

38 minutes ago, sat11 said:

I've just read on this forum that some people take LSD. LSD is Dangerous and should not be used. It was likely your friend used it. Condolences and be careful and I would suggest don't do any type of drug 

Literally sounds like my mom