Muhammad Jawad

Soonhei (Member of this community) killed himself to experience Conscious Death. :-(

487 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, tuckerwphotography said:

I have had the thought run through my mind in the past that goes something like this: "This is all a Dream, and all that exist is in my direct experience right here right now (as per Leo's Guided Exercise for Realizing You Are God video). Therefore if I kill myself there will be no family and friends that I leave behind who will grieve me because they are just an illusion, and they will cease to exist once the dream of Tucker dies. Therefore, my suicide will not cause any pain or suffering because there is literally no one else to experience this pain and suffering." 

A part of me still wonders if this line of thinking has aspects of truth or not. I'm sharing this so that it can be discussed and hopefully clarified rather than me just repressing these half-baked ideas into my shadow. Thank you.

The best way I can answer this for you is if I were to cut off your penis would it hurt, would you be left with the pain and difficulty of what that means your life from that point on?

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Posted (edited)

RIP ?

Im sorry for the familys loss ❤

.

 

 

One thing i dont understand is the delusional people in here kinda blaming Leo for something like this, like wtf is wrong with you guys!

Take responsebility for your own Life.

How the hell is he supposed to even know how much people in general will twist his teachings?

Like srsly only looking for someone to blame.

It is extremely sad for the family in this case but this man made a choice and it is not up to us to judge his decisions. 

Every man can twist any other mans word to infinity.

But people here trying to blame Leo, grow up and grow a pair of balls srsly and wake the fuck up and realize that this sort of stuff happens all the time.

Leo has never ever said that someone should commit suicide so step off your high horses.

Non duality has had the same teachings for centuries, and no one is complaining about that but now all of the sudden Leo should be given the blame?

Gimme a break. 

Each and everyone of us should take 100% responsebility for our own lifes.

 

Edited by Adamq8

Let thy speech be better then silence, or be silent.

- Pseudo-dionysius 

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3 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Or, he could have been depressed underneath the outwardly and inwardly projected loving exterior, and essentially turned depression into a shadow... Then perhaps he was looking for whatever excuse to end his pain -- if he could concoct a comfortable story, he'd more easily be able to go through with it.

Now, that is of course 100% conjecture, but something similar is totally plausible.

Okay, now we're speculating. But of course, this can't be excluded. My interpretation was based on his last post. But if he needed an excuse he might as well depict it that way. After all, we don't know.

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Blaming Leo for anything is quite ridiculous. Even suggesting that he should change something. 
I don't know many other people, whose work brings life back so much.

Are you looking for someone else's fault? Why are you suggesting that there is any fault?

Something has gone wrong? From whose point of view? SoonHei's or your?

Adult man, his will, his freedom, his bubble...
You don't know the reasons, and you'll never know. Accept it. Let others live their own life and choose.

RIP SoonHei

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9 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Or, he could have been depressed underneath the outwardly and inwardly projected loving exterior, and essentially turned depression into a shadow... Then perhaps he was looking for whatever excuse to end his pain -- if he could concoct a comfortable story, he'd more easily be able to go through with it.

Now, that is of course 100% conjecture, but something similar is totally plausible.

This to me is really the only plausible thing. Nobody could believe when Robin Williams hanged himself, that is usually the case...

I cannot accept a person just jumping off a bridge like this. It makes no sense at all. I don't think the Buddha chucked himself off a bridge, Maharshi hasn't chucked himself off a bridge. It doesn't seem the done thing outside of cultural influence.

I have strong conviction this was essentially an excuse to end an existence perceived as unpleasant in some way or another.

If this was the end result of spiritual belief, every guru like the Buddha etc would be committing suicide.

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3 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

This to me is really the only plausible thing. Nobody could believe when Robin Williams hanged himself, that is usually the case...

I cannot accept a person just jumping off a bridge like this. It makes no sense at all. I don't think the Buddha chucked himself off a bridge, Maharshi hasn't chucked himself off a bridge. It doesn't seem the done thing outside of cultural influence.

I have strong conviction this was essentially an excuse to end an existence perceived as unpleasant in some way or another.

If this was the end result of spiritual belief, every guru like the Buddha etc would be committing suicide.

Yeah it's just speculation, but it certainly fits. Seeking so hard it may have just been too much.

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3 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

If this was the end result of spiritual belief, every guru like the Buddha etc would be committing suicide.

Unless we don't remember the spiritual philosophies that lacked the guardrails against people terminating their lives, because those philosophies died out over time, being unpalatable. Whereas the ones with strong guardrails thrived and are remembered today.


How to get to infinity? Divide by zero.

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11 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

If this was the end result of spiritual belief, every guru like the Buddha etc would be committing suicide.

SoonHei was nowhere near the consciousness or development level of The Buddha. If he was awake he would not have jumped off a bridge. An awake person doesn't behave that way and certainly doesn't ask others about it.

He was simply eager to reach liberation via suicide rather than doing the hard work. Why spend 10 years meditating or taking psychedelics when you can just jump off a bridge?

"Die before you die" does not mean: go die. He took it as that.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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1 minute ago, outlandish said:

Unless we don't remember the spiritual philosophies that lacked the guardrails against people terminating their lives, because those philosophies died out over time, being unpalatable. Whereas the ones with strong guardrails thrived and are remembered today.

There is actually a tribe who DOGMATICALLY believe that when they die they go to another plane of existence that is far greater. Sounds like normal religions but they DOGMATICALLY believe it and there are no guardrails. No "suicide prevents heaven" etc. This tribe has not gone extinct, and the people do not just randomly suicide, but they do suicide when slight issues arise in their life.

Sam Harris discussed these people before I think.

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From what I'm gathering it is unclear to mostly everyone here that with this gentleman's death this community has just entered a kind of dangerzone of becoming a hotbed for suicide contagion. That he did it with so much grace, and because timeless nondual truth has little bad to say about suicide, and because this forum as a place of spiritual exploration and communication is full of diverse people contemplating death (as they should be) including a fair number of emotionally unstable folks, we are ripe for a suicide cluster.

If you don't know what I'm talking about please google "suicide cluster", "suicide contagion", and "the Werther effect". Sadly, we see this in high-schools all too often. There we can attempt to control the much more manageable environment and offer clinical help to everyone, and still multiple impressionable confused young people take thier lives. There is little chance of halting it here.


In short folks, this may be the beginning of the end of the forum. The days and weeks to come will tell. It will only take one more, and then there will be a few more. Investigations, lawsuits, all manor of demonization of this work, and a general complete shitshow will follow... Love peace but prepare for war ?

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1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

"Die before you die" does not mean: go die. He took it as that.

This needs to be made more explicit


How to get to infinity? Divide by zero.

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23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

SoonHei was nowhere near the consciousness or development level of The Buddha. If he was awake he would not have jumped off a bridge. An awake person doesn't behave that way and certainly doesn't ask others about it.

He was simply eager to reach liberation via suicide rather than doing the hard work. Why spend 10 years meditating or taking psychedelics when you can just jump off a bridge?

"Die before you die" does not mean: go die. He took it as that.

Sadly - This is the truth.  I was going to post it but no need now.  I think these Truths were still at a belief level for him.  And this work should never be taken as belief even if he could intuit it..  If not he wouldn't have done what he did.  


 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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Posted (edited)

6 minutes ago, Ryan R said:

From what I'm gathering it is unclear to mostly everyone here that with this gentleman's death this community has just entered a kind of dangerzone of becoming a hotbed for suicide contagion. That he did it with so much grace, and because timeless nondual truth has little bad to say about suicide, and because this forum as a place of spiritual exploration and communication is full of diverse people contemplating death (as they should be) including a fair number of emotionally unstable folks, we are ripe for a suicide cluster.

If you don't know what I'm talking about please google "suicide cluster", "suicide contagion", and "the Werther effect". Sadly, we see this in high-schools all too often. There we can attempt to control the much more manageable environment and offer clinical help to everyone, and still multiple impressionable confused young people take thier lives. There is little chance of halting it here.


In short folks, this may be the beginning of the end of the forum. The days and weeks to come will tell. It will only take one more, and then there will be a few more. Investigations, lawsuits, all manor of demonization of this work, and a general complete shitshow will follow... Love peace but prepare for war ?

Grace? Nobody here looks highly upon suicide. In fact it's very much in the air that suicide is precisely not what this work is about.

And Leo is handling it about as well as one could ask.

In Patreon meetings with Jim Newman, for instance, if someone brings up suicide, Jim tells them "I'll buy you the rope." Basically the exact opposite happens here.

Edited by The0Self

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11 minutes ago, Ryan R said:

From what I'm gathering it is unclear to mostly everyone here that with this gentleman's death this community has just entered a kind of dangerzone of becoming a hotbed for suicide contagion. That he did it with so much grace, and because timeless nondual truth has little bad to say about suicide, and because this forum as a place of spiritual exploration and communication is full of diverse people contemplating death (as they should be) including a fair number of emotionally unstable folks, we are ripe for a suicide cluster.

If you don't know what I'm talking about please google "suicide cluster", "suicide contagion", and "the Werther effect". Sadly, we see this in high-schools all too often. There we can attempt to control the much more manageable environment and offer clinical help to everyone, and still multiple impressionable confused young people take thier lives. There is little chance of halting it here.


In short folks, this may be the beginning of the end of the forum. The days and weeks to come will tell. It will only take one more, and then there will be a few more. Investigations, lawsuits, all manor of demonization of this work, and a general complete shitshow will follow... Love peace but prepare for war ?

Do not fearmonger and spread toxic ideas.

We are here discussing this issue so people can get closure. This thread is not a license for run hog-wild with crazy ideas. Nobody is here to kill themselves and nothing in these teachings is remotely about that.

This idea that anything whatsoever in these teachings is even remotely close to suicide needs to end right now. There is no such confusion in the mind of any reasonable or sane person. Please stop spreading such rumors. Keep in mind that if you guys insist on promoting such ideas about my work, I will stop sharing my teachings with you entirely. And then you will be all on your own.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

SoonHei was nowhere near the consciousness or development level of The Buddha.

He was simply eager to reach liberation via suicide rather than doing the hard work.

"Die before you die" does not mean: go die. He took it as that.

I am of the opinion that a person who does this is already struggling. And as you know people drawn to these sorts of things are probably more likely to be struggling mentally, hence seeking an escape.

If I wanted to shortcut to liberation and didn't care about death at all I'd do a fat dose of 5-MeO-DMT. Maybe every day even if I was THAT serious that I'd kill myself. Leaping to my death makes no sense to me.

It seems to defeat the purpose otherwise... You get into self development to improve your life. Suicide is the opposite way lol. I don't think it is right when Buddhists just label existence suffering. I am under no illusion that a great deal of people find some contentment in their lives.

I really think this is likely a person who found a way to feel okay and fine about a decision that they probably wanted to make before finding such communities to begin with.

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One change I suggest is that suicide talk be banned from the forum.   Posters contemplating suicide or writing suicide fantasies should be immediately shut down and referred to professional help.   An Internet forum can’t handle these issues, but takes on the responsibility if a platform is being provided for their expression.


Vincit omnia Veritas.

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Nope. You guys are still not getting it.

God-realized my ass.

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4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Do not fearmonger and spread toxic ideas.

We are here discussing this issue so people can get closure. This thread is not a license for run hog-wild with crazy ideas. Nobody is here to kill themselves and nothing in these teachings is about that.

This idea that anything whatsoever in these teachings is even remotely close to suicide needs to end right now. There is no such confusion in the mind of any reasonable or sane person. Please stop spreading such rumors.

Well said and will do. Take care All :)

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@Jodistrict there is a serious emotion section for it 

 


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2 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

Nope. You guys are still not getting it.

God-realized my ass.

What would you propose? People sometimes commit suicide. This community is as far from pro-suicide as it can get.

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