TheSomeBody

left wing israeli perspective of the situation

10 posts in this topic

so i will touch of couple of topics, please try to not go beyond the bounderies of the topics. i will not talk here about the apartheid ( i do reconize israel doing apartheid)

israel right to protect itself:

most of the people that live here are actually want this operation because the rockets from gaza are scary and are dangerous , people here do not want this to happen and they want somekind of safty from it , usually it ends when hamas want ceasefire and then still fire rockets at us and threatening to do so from time to time like israel is his private bitch , so people here are for trying another tactic, destroy hamas (or gaza) till they stop sending rockets .
personaly now i am in favor for this operation but i dont know if it is because this situation , i just see this situation making people leaning more to the right every time , that is why bibi is so much time in the goverment, negotiation did nothing, theree times and nothing . the real option is to stop the apartheid but it looks like it doesnt make any progress towards it , it is just let right wing people to keep being rascist and say that they are dont want terror . so i do see israel right to protect itself right now.

is hamas peacefull?:
hamas probably is not peacefull, he could just do nothing and seeing bibi losing the elections and a left wing party would form because all of the events and protests outside and inside of israel but he chooses to radicalize israel and making bibi strong (for this time frame, probably bibi will weaken i will write about it in the next paragraph).  also hamas knows that he radicalize people toward the right anyway.

what will happens politicly in israel?
- if the un will stop the operation and the idf wouldnt get what he wanted bibi would look really bad and probably lose the election . killing people for nothing + a bad name for israel looks really bad .
- if the operation will be successfull he will probably win the election eventhough he probably the one that started it inderectly .
- it looks like ganz (from blue and white party) might make a coalition with bibi but the operation might change the situation so elections are coming and this coalition gonna be short lived.
- the operation will be succssfull but hamas will get a good deal so bibi will look weak for people that are leaning right

the operation is pretty complex , i dont see how they will achieve it and the UN probably gonna stop it before it can get its targets. so at the end it looks like hamas didnt get the right party goverment he wants and he will get a left one , pretty happy about it .
even if the idf will get his goals, it would probably will be something the the people in israel would not get satisfied , people want hamas dead of without any rockets , probably israel will just destory gaza and at some lvl hurts hamas

Edited by TheSomeBody

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17 hours ago, EMC said:

Lies about maps. 

 

When I say that these people are professional liars I mean it.

I'm really not sure if they believe themselves or not.

here, listen to this ugly looking witch.

 

 

@TheSomeBody

I respect your analysis but it does not matter, the case is not  political and never has been, it is 100% religious,the zionists jews think that this is there promised land, but the muslims believe in another prophecy, that one day they will kick the zionist out of there land.

you might say that they are self fulfilling prophecies ... it could be .. but at the end the result is one. no political movement will solve this ... I mean ever.

 

the whole humanity SD is stuck because of this issue, unless we give the land back to the real owners, and unless we ALL condem this nazie enitiy we ALL are in danger. 

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16 hours ago, Fadl said:

When I say that these people are professional liars I mean it.

I'm really not sure if they believe themselves or not.

here, listen to this ugly looking witch.

 

 

@TheSomeBody

I respect your analysis but it does not matter, the case is not  political and never has been, it is 100% religious,the zionists jews think that this is there promised land, but the muslims believe in another prophecy, that one day they will kick the zionist out of there land.

you might say that they are self fulfilling prophecies ... it could be .. but at the end the result is one. no political movement will solve this ... I mean ever.

 

the whole humanity SD is stuck because of this issue, unless we give the land back to the real owners, and unless we ALL condem this nazie enitiy we ALL are in danger. 

dude, zionism is not religious at all, the first zionist were atheist , ben gurion was atheism, the "witch" golda meir was atheist , your understanding of zionism is the extreme right , like 5% of the population think about this version of zionism....
palestinian pretty much brought this situation upon themself, there are some arab group inside of israel that are living in peace here and jews like druze population , they are non jewish but zionist and they get a good treatment , people here even prefer them than jews because they are non jews zionist .
palestinian and zionist wants pretty much the same thing . zionism is the idea of having a state for the jews so in case of anti semitism they could come here and get help ( i have friends that came here becuase anti semitism, it is still a thing ) , this state for the jews will be a normal western state with normal democracy . i dont know how people around the world think that zionism is about having privilege jewish people that they would make the native population to be slaves because promised land or something. i see in all of national tv like cnn talking to some extreme right wing to have false picture of the situation to make people angry about israel like it is gonna make any solution here 


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@TheSomeBody Since you happen to be from Israeli, how would you characterize the Left/Right divide in Israeli? Is it more of a demographic or ethnic divide? Is the split between right and left a generational one? Something else? Hard to even pin down?


"The mind is inherently embodied.
Thought is mostly unconscious.
Abstract concepts are largely metaphorical." - George Lakoff

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5 minutes ago, compass said:

Long discussion guys, but this video summarizes everything. Check if your moral compass is functioning ok with this video!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1ohFIJfZ4E

 

PragerU is a right wing propaganda channel, so I would be skeptical of what they've got to say as they've got their own agenda. Dennis Prager, the founder of PragerU, is actually a Zionist himself. He personally made a video where he was trying to make it seem like being anti-zionism automatically means that your an anti-semite. Yes there are a lot of anti-zionists who are also anti-semites, but this topic is far more nuanced than that and I don't think that PragerU is interested in having a nuanced conversation.


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3 minutes ago, Tif said:

@DefinitelyNotARobot Zero arguments you have! None, zero , nothing!  No this discussion and contributions are very very very skewed. Nuance where havnt found it here????? Everybody with good moral compass got deleted here. You cant survive without that violence!!

Zero arguments you have! None, zero , nothing!

I can play the same game, but that's boring. Rather I'm going to ask you what you mean by "good" moral compass. What would that look like to you?


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1 hour ago, DocWatts said:

@TheSomeBody Since you happen to be from Israeli, how would you characterize the Left/Right divide in Israeli? Is it more of a demographic or ethnic divide? Is the split between right and left a generational one? Something else? Hard to even pin down?

so the left and right are the same at some stuff like personal liberties (pro gay, feminist ) also economics they are pretty much the same (somewhat left) but ofcourse the left is more left in those issues. the big debate is state issues like gaza , west bank which the left is more like international and right doesnt care much about them. there are tons of diffrences but this is the big picture .
it is more demographic divided than ethnic exept like arab parties or haredim parties which are jewish but somewhat seperate than the population.
now all the parties have lots of stuff that they change because of the instability , kinda hard to pin down even , the caltural looks is what i see that international people dont get , usually you see stuff in too much of the bigger picture but there are lots of varients that might change your mind. like this operation we have right now all of the parties are for exept one party which i agree, this operation is good and i do want to see more results than stopping it 


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@TheSomeBody From your vantage point, what sort of long term solutions to the Conflict are Israel Left of Center political parties advocating for (beyond the short term goal of defending against Hamas rocket strikes)? Is a Two State solution something that is still actively sought after by any of the major political parties? 

Edited by DocWatts

"The mind is inherently embodied.
Thought is mostly unconscious.
Abstract concepts are largely metaphorical." - George Lakoff

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12 hours ago, TheSomeBody said:

dude, zionism is not religious at all, the first zionist were atheist , ben gurion was atheism, the "witch" golda meir was atheist , your understanding of zionism is the extreme right , like 5% of the population think about this version of zionism....
palestinian pretty much brought this situation upon themself, there are some arab group inside of israel that are living in peace here and jews like druze population , they are non jewish but zionist and they get a good treatment , people here even prefer them than jews because they are non jews zionist .
palestinian and zionist wants pretty much the same thing . zionism is the idea of having a state for the jews so in case of anti semitism they could come here and get help ( i have friends that came here becuase anti semitism, it is still a thing ) , this state for the jews will be a normal western state with normal democracy . i dont know how people around the world think that zionism is about having privilege jewish people that they would make the native population to be slaves because promised land or something. i see in all of national tv like cnn talking to some extreme right wing to have false picture of the situation to make people angry about israel like it is gonna make any solution here 

Man, I assure you Im aware of everything you say .. and I can go debating you forever..  but again it does not matter .. the war now has escalated .. it is a war between two different prophecies .. between two collective awarenesses ..  all this video sharing, debating and talking about history (which I do sometimes) means nothing at this point. 
 

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11 hours ago, Fadl said:

Man, I assure you Im aware of everything you say .. and I can go debating you forever..  but again it does not matter .. the war now has escalated .. it is a war between two different prophecies .. between two collective awarenesses ..  all this video sharing, debating and talking about history (which I do sometimes) means nothing at this point. 
 

so why you said those things?

15 hours ago, DocWatts said:

@TheSomeBody From your vantage point, what sort of long term solutions to the Conflict are Israel Left of Center political parties advocating for (beyond the short term goal of defending against Hamas rocket strikes)? Is a Two State solution something that is still actively sought after by any of the major political parties? 

the right is for taking the west bank and treat gaza like shit , i mean they would treat gaza right if hamas would stop terror . the right just make more and more settlements till two state solution is not possible .
left wing is for two state solution but the settlements pretty much make this solution pretty hard for them, personally i dont see two state solution possible, i think one state solution is possible and in this one state the west bank will have some kind of independence , but this state probably will have some privelage for jews like the right to return , maybe another right in case the arabs having more population than the jews. i dont think that people gonna agree here for a state that doesnt ensure a safe place for jews 


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