Mesopotamian

Sharing Quotes Form Iraqi Citizens Anti-West, Anti-American

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Saddam has gone, but we are taking hostages again by the fanatics, the anti-freedom, anti west, closed minded people. Many of them are in the position of power in Iraq now, and I fell helpless and I don't have but trying to object on that on social media using a pseudo name, otherwise I'll most certainly be killed.

Many of them do not believe in any international treaty, not the one signed by the US and Iraq, in which the US pledged to support the new Iraqi regime and its security forces. They do support launching missiles whenever there's American bases, even if that meant also killing Iraqi soldiers there.

Ever wondered what an average Iraqi thinks about the situation of his country? well wonder no more, I'll translate some of the comments on my page:

"Iraq has not been occupied since 2003 with the occupation of Iraq in 1963 and the Gulf states are occupied by America by appointing a group of families to the Gulf states, such as the Al Saud, the Al Sabah, and the Zayed family, and many of them came to America with the Baath and sectarianism was planted in Iraq and that Saddam was prepared in 1954 when America's interests in Iraq and the Gulf became in danger. It entered Iraq in a war that lasted 8 years. Then it stole Gulf money, which was in foreign banks equal to the level of oil export. B, 2003, she said, "We will free you from Saddam, so I occupied Iraq and did what I did in terms of raping women and killing people in the streets, like a visit to Nisour Square, as well as Abu Ghraib prison, an imprint of shame on the front of the Americans
The Iraqi heroes who struggled against the occupation and introduced terror into the occupying American forces made the American soldier wear a diaper and urinate with water bottles, which made America forced to withdraw.
The article is for you and the dear reader
Al-Qaeda is farewell, U and Al-Nusra Army, and many Arab organizations, which were supported by the Gulf states and backed by the United States and Israel
ISIS has raped Christian women and Yazidis, made them slaveholders, and destroyed churches, monuments, and major crimes such as Spy.
Dear reader, America will not allow Iraq to live in peace and security. Do not build Iraq, every day and another and every year, it will surprise us with a new topic by which the blood of innocent people will go.
And the biggest evidence that ISIS is supported by the Americans is that Mosul fell into the hands of ISIS, and there was a military plane for carrying that landed at Tal Afar airport and disembarked goods, weapons and commanders from ISIS, and that one of the leaders of the Popular Mobilization Forces said that we liberated a village and did not take down the ancient flag ISIS, and the American planes came and dropped us weapons and ammunition with misleading, and this is the biggest evidence that America supports ISIS
Dignity and self-esteem are neither bought nor sold, as they are born with man"

 

Another one says:
"Unfortunately for my short-sightedness in thinking ... Do you think that we will be safe while we are under the American occupation? And who has violated Iraqi security if not these filthy forces that brought the country to what we have been looking for? From heaven to spread security and safety in Iraq, thousands of brothers know that we are under the occupation of a gang called America. It is not a respectable country. Iraq is a respectable country. These forces do not respect you unless you stand against them"

Another one
"Fighting the occupier is a legal, moral and patriotic duty, so where do you come from? Are you against the law of God? Or against the morals of the Iraqi mujahideen? Or against cleansing the homeland from the occupation pigs? So from which group you are. If you are in Iraq, by God, you do not deserve to smell the air of Iraq. And remain prostrate under the feet of your masters occupying the point of the line"

And another one

"America is occupier to Iraq and it is the sponsor of terrorism and corruption
What did she and her clients do in 18 years ?!
So fighting the occupier who destroyed Iraq, dissolving the army, creating ISIS and supporting them with everything, and this is what the US Secretary of State recognized. Have you heard about this or did you sit for other things?
All the countries of the world that have been occupied are proud of their resistance, except Iraq, because the traitors of the homeland stab the resistance, and this is one of the paradoxes that free peoples are not used to."

 

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Posted (edited)

Franc Phanon, anti-colonial theorist and author:

"The development of violence among the colonized people will be reciprocal to the violence carried out by the disputed colonial regime [U. S. occupying forces in this instance] ."

"Only the people that fight, only the people, that thanks to their struggle, now possess that new reality and come to know it, only those people move forward and become freed from colonialism, warned in advance at all attempts of mystification, at all of the hymns to the nation. Only the violence carried out by the people, that's revealed and organised by the leadership, allows the masses to decipher the social reality of their condition, it gives them the key to it. Without that struggle, without that knowledge and insight from practice, it all becomes just a carneval tralala. Minimal adjustments, several reforms at the top, the flag, and at the bottom an undifirentiated medieval mass, which just constantly moves on with it."

"With whichever name we call decolonisation (national liberation, national renewal and/or returning the nation to the people) it remains a violent phenomenon, such is the sharp and passionate analysis of the human impulse for freedom in a colonial context."

- The Wretched of the Earth, nice book which I plan on buying and reading

I had a longer comment which I wrote regarding my interpretation and view of these comments by these Iraqis but it got deleted for some reason on my phone so I will write out my full thoughts on this when it's daytime here again. 

 

Edited by Milos Uzelac

"Keep your eye on the ball. " - Michael Brooks 

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@Milos Uzelac

I tend to think that this resistance to reality from Iraqi people only puts them on a path for suffering. There's nothing good to be gained out of it, they can't afford it but they don't know yet.

It is useless to try to gain any sort of independence today when people are being constantly "invaded" on an intellectual level through the internet. People will go only from a low point to a lower point until they align themselves with the international family. 

Globalization is imminent, people are too ignorant to notice. I think the speed, abundance and stability for example of product moving from a factory to the end user thousands of miles away gives a false sense of superiority, like "now we have everything in place, let's fight the west" not knowing that the transportation is made possible by the international law that the west protects.

"Let's not take the vaccine, it is western conspiracy" but yet the world health is now better because of westren breakthroughs in medicine, and so on...

"Let's fight America, Vietnam did it and had victory, so should we", but again, they try to use the internet to rally for their cause, twitter and facebook that are made in the US.

 

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2 hours ago, Mesopotamian said:

 

It is useless to try to gain any sort of independence today when people are being constantly "invaded" on an intellectual level through the internet. People will go only from a low point to a lower point until they align themselves with the international family. 

 

As I heard on the latest news the U.S. forces present in Afghanistan will abandon it by the 20th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks so the Taliban and other affiliated groups have been in a way successful with their committed guerilla warfare to drain enough resources from the U.S. military to force the U.S. to withdraw its troops and occupying forces.

The Internet as I see it is just a very useful and revolutionary tool that allows people easily to connect to the global information circulation pool and to adopt English more easily as the de facto language of international commerce. It doesn't have intellectual property rights to any nation it originated from, since even though we conduct our virtual correspondence via the browser owned by a U.S. multinational Google, the same is not true for China which has its own web platforms and companies.

The British, French and other colonial powers attempted the same thing in their former colonies via the insertion of their cultural and civilizational norms and technological industrial advances in those countries and they received a backlash from those country's people's demand for independence and self-governance which resulted in the anti-colonial liberation and independence movements of the '50s, '60s, and '70s in those former colonies.

The people there used weapons supplied from the USSR and the industrial innovations that originated in other developed western nations as tools for the aim of their national liberation struggle, I don't see why the technological innovations and the opportunities of the internet of today cannot be put for the same intent for Iraqis to force the U.S. to remove its troops and bases from the country, for which I see no purpose apart from acting as geopolitical and military pressure for Iran and to secure the strategic national resources of Iraq for its own multinationals in order not to allow other competing global powers to get the share in that market and to keep their monopolies on them.

2 hours ago, Mesopotamian said:

@Milos Uzelac

I tend to think that this resistance to reality from Iraqi people only puts them on a path for suffering. There's nothing good to be gained out of it, they can't afford it but they don't know yet.

Resistance can be for a people of a country away to return their dignity and self-worth as a people if they feel like their being occupied by another nation for the reason that nation thinks they are uncivilized, barbaric, inferior, and underdeveloped so their military occupation is seen as a necessary way to keep the people of that nation in check and to also justify their exploitation and seizure of that country strategic national resources for the use of that occupying nations industry and companies which it claims it knows how to use best on the international market and turn into products for the global economy. I don't see why Iraq is incapable to nationalize the industries that exploit those strategic resources for itself and for its people and companies themselves to supply products and compete on the international market if they were able to do so in the past. It seems like an ideological justification from a foreign actor with embedded interests in the nation's economy of why that is no longer a possible thing to do.

 


"Keep your eye on the ball. " - Michael Brooks 

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2 hours ago, Milos Uzelac said:

for which I see no purpose apart from acting as geopolitical and military pressure for Iran and to secure the strategic national resources of Iraq for its own multinationals in order not to allow other competing global powers to get the share in that market and to keep their monopolies on them.

I would say it is a given heavenly right by now for the US to stay in Iraq. I am not as eloquent as you seem to be, yet Iraq is now a hot spot for disasters of all kinds, it has continuously been sins the 90s. Indeed the government is unable to sustain the country, and if probably Afghanistan is poor country, Iraq is oil rich, and there's a high possibility that its whole political system collapses over a night, and vast of its lands become inhabited by terrorist organization who make use of its virtually unlimited wealth to fund themselves.

I think people who invaded Iraq are not superficial and driven by greed as you might think. Simply Iraq cannot sustain itself by its own.

Ever heard of Mosul Dam? This is a dam that could collapse at any moment, dubed the most dangerous dam in the world, and at least the international presence in a way facilitate the ongoing 24/7 maintenance. Have a quick look here

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10706-020-01355-w

Can anyone afford the killing of over half a million Iraqis in few hours if something happens to it?

 

2 hours ago, Milos Uzelac said:

country

Doesn't Apply

2 hours ago, Milos Uzelac said:

country

Again Doesn't Apply to:

2 hours ago, Milos Uzelac said:

Iraq

I've said it earlier, Iraq is not a real country, it is a fake country, completely made up by the Brits. Iraq didn't fought for its independence. All the matter is that Brits have started the efforts for Arab independence, and some nations have took the opportunity and did swim with the current and succeeded, like UAE, and Saudi Arabia, but some of the newly formed Arab countries will ultimately fail and need to be dismantled.

From where I come, I think you're too biased to consider Iraq as a country to start with, I mean you can do that if you ignore all the signs, and therefore, I hope in a couple decades from now, the world will come to agree to new standards about what entity qualifies or counts as a country and what doesn't. I think the international system now is flawed and has no standards.

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1 hour ago, Mesopotamian said:

 

Ever heard of Mosul Dam? This is a dam that could collapse at any moment, dubed the most dangerous dam in the world, and at least the international presence in a way facilitate the ongoing 24/7 maintenance. Have a quick look here

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10706-020-01355-w

Can anyone afford the killing of over half a million Iraqis in few hours if something happens to it?

I haven't at all up until you shared this information, thanks I will read it through. 

1 hour ago, Mesopotamian said:

 

I've said it earlier, Iraq is not a real country, it is a fake country, completely made up by the Brits. Iraq didn't fought for its independence. All the matter is that Brits have started the efforts for Arab independence, and some nations have took the opportunity and did swim with the current and succeeded, like UAE, and Saudi Arabia, but some of the newly formed Arab countries will ultimately fail and need to be dismantled.

From where I come, I think you're too biased to consider Iraq as a country to start with, I mean you can do that if you ignore all the signs, and therefore, I hope in a couple decades from now, the world will come to agree to new standards about what entity qualifies or counts as a country and what doesn't. I think the international system now is flawed and has no standards.

Yes I seem to have forgotten and got my history mixed up, and viewed probably too much exclusively through the lense of other former colonies with less complicated history. 

But still I think the people of Iraq, in the comments you've just shown, feel that their ability and right to govern themselves is unfringed upon by having a foreign occupying force have military bases on the territory of the country they recognizes as their own, even though as you mentioned the country requires international pressence and assistance of some sort due to it's instability. 

Of course you yourself would know best how's the situation in your own country so I apologise to you if I came off as a stranger online lecturing you on what ought to be done in your country, my intent was to just add theoretical lense regarding the effects colonisation and military pressence of a foreign power that may be acting in such a manner in order to explain my view of why the Iraqis in the comments on your blog might be acting and feeling the way they do about the actions and intent of the foreign actor on their soil. 

1 hour ago, Mesopotamian said:

I would say it is a given heavenly right by now for the US to stay in Iraq. I am not as eloquent as you seem to be, yet Iraq is now a hot spot for disasters of all kinds, it has continuously been sins the 90s. Indeed the government is unable to sustain the country, and if probably Afghanistan is poor country, Iraq is oil rich, and there's a high possibility that its whole political system collapses over a night, and vast of its lands become inhabited by terrorist organization who make use of its virtually unlimited wealth to terrorist organization for their funding. 

I understand where you are coming from regarding your view that international military presence is needed for the sake of stability of an unstable country because of the potential threat of its rich resources falling into the hands of even worse actors like the groups you mentioned. 

However at the same time those groups use foreign pressence for their recruitment propaganda and for justifying their motives, plans and legitimising their actions as resistance and a freedom struggle against the foreign occupiers in Iraq, so that is also what I see as a problem of the foreign military presence producing and justifying the existence of those movements and groups. It is a double edged sword maintaining stability and yet producing instability at the same time. 

But I agree with you with on the latter for the seeming current necessity for it given the country's state and development. 

I am using the term country in the sense of an entity or people possesing a central government which ought to have sovereignty over a territory they inhabit, not in the historical sense of a continous and homogenuous nationhood and a nation over a long duration and continuity in history. I don't know enough about Iraqs previous history, have forgotten parts and agreements that constituted it as a country, so used the term country in the sense that people living their ought to have a government which is sovereign on the whole territory which the country it encompasses, which I see as an ti-colonial in it's nature. Sorry for the misunderstanding if it seemed I was advocating and pertaining for something else. 


"Keep your eye on the ball. " - Michael Brooks 

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16 minutes ago, Milos Uzelac said:

However at the same time those groups use foreign pressence for their recruitment propaganda and for justifying their motives, plans and legitimising their actions as resistance and a freedom struggle against the foreign occupiers in Iraq, so that is also what I see as a problem of the foreign military presence producing and justifying the existence of those movements and groups. It is a double edged sword maintaining stability and yet producing instability at the same time. 

No sir, completely disagree,

Those who are against western presence are just a minority, they are gambling that bombing bases of Americans will set them on a path to achieve their ultimate goal of "universal justice", completely and utterly morons and fanatics. It is just the fact that bombing has been normalized in Iraq, and all kinds of conflicts, so these morons are like "why the hell we won't fight in order to achieve universal justice, we hate the American and Jews, but hey, there are American troops nearby, and we have explosives! so Let's let's launch missiles on them and God will be pleased, and Iran"!

When you think like the American presence should withdraw, you're trying to give up Iraq to those morons, and those morons when they achieve their goal, they are going to be the worst managers to the country and bring up disasters, and then American intervention is going to come back again and participate in yet another new conflict, and this is how the weapons company get rich!

Just count how many terrorist organization have been active in Iraq after 2003, and they all faded away because they have little to do with average Iraqi people, and only fanatics enable them to bomb within Iraqi borders.

When Trump killed Sulaimani, the latter is now in hell hopefully like Al-Baghdadi, and Bin-Laden, Saddam Hussain, and the situation is truly better, someone needs to shut those fanatics out using excessive power.

27 minutes ago, Milos Uzelac said:

But still I think the people of Iraq, in the comments you've just shown, feel that their ability and right to govern themselves is unfringed upon by having a foreign occupying force have military bases on the territory of the country they recognizes as their own, even though as you mentioned the country requires international pressence and assistance of some sort due to it's instability. 

Iraqis are not a nation by any means, stage-blue families proliferating like cancer within ghettos, with no specific goal in sight. They are byproduct of capitalism which enabled better life conditions for human beings who have no clue what's going on and very far  from reality. I don't think you know how it feels that your nation has utterly no credit for its creation, for its food, for its medicine. A nation who copies the west and can't contribute anything useful to the world.

33 minutes ago, Milos Uzelac said:

I am using the term country in the sense of an entity or people possesing a central government which ought to have sovereignty over a territory they inhabit, not in the historical sense of a continous and homogenuous nationhood and a nation over a long duration and continuity in history. I don't know enough about Iraqs previous history, have forgotten parts and agreements that constituted it as a country, so used the term country in the sense that people living their ought to have a government which is sovereign on the whole territory which the country it encompasses, which I see as an ti-colonial in it's nature. Sorry for the misunderstanding if it seemed I was advocating and pertaining for something else. 

I am afraid there's only the illusion of sovereignty, therefore I don't see Iraq as a country not even close, our cities are actually like city-states, separated and encircled by hundreds of military checkpoints, and all the space between the cities are free for terrorist organizations t play freely, I can't go from a city to another before checking my name and compare it to the list of terrorists, all of this, and with the presence of coalition forces, ISIS is til active till this day, all this tell me that this energy spent on maintaining the illusion of stability and sovereignty is not sustainable.  Iraq is on the way to bankruptcy, has bloody protests, genocides, you name it, and all thanks to the International presence it is just a bit stable now. Without it it will collapse, do you want a proof? ISIS 2014 after American withdrawal in 2011

We need the international presence until people learn not to play with fire, cuz firing missiles is happening on a daily bases, on airports, on embassies, on cemeteries, you name it. It is indeed a jungle hereز

Welcome to Iraq!

Missiles on the green zone launched freely! it is our every day reality

 

 

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As someone very far outside of Iraq, this is a fascinating read. It's heartbreaking to see the condition in Iraq.


How to get to infinity? Divide by zero.

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53 minutes ago, Mesopotamian said:

No sir, completely disagree,

Those who are against western presence are just a minority, they are gambling that bombing bases of Americans will set them on a path to achieve their ultimate goal of "universal justice", completely and utterly morons and fanatics. It is just the fact that bombing has been normalized in Iraq, and all kinds of conflicts, so these morons are like "why the hell we won't fight in order to achieve universal justice, we hate the American and Jews, but hey, there are American troops nearby, and we have explosives! so Let's let's launch missiles on them and God will be pleased, and Iran"!

When you think like the American presence should withdraw, you're trying to give up Iraq to those morons, and those morons when they achieve their goal, they are going to be the worst managers to the country and bring up disasters, and then American intervention is going to come back again and participate in yet another new conflict, and this is how the weapons company get rich!

Just count how many terrorist organizations have been active in Iraq after 2003, and they all faded away because they have little to do with average Iraqi people, and only fanatics enable them to bomb within Iraqi borders.

Again, my intent for responding to your thread was not to lecture you as some unknown stranger online with no lived experience within your country and not to be confrontational regarding your assertions about your fellow Iraqis. You live in Iraq, you have a lived experience within the country and the people's beliefs and behaviors there so I trust your judgment from a living experience perspective regarding their beliefs, behaviors, and levels of their development.

59 minutes ago, Mesopotamian said:

 

Iraqis are not a nation by any means, stage-blue families proliferating like cancer within ghettos, with no specific goal in sight. They are byproducts of capitalism which enabled better life conditions for human beings who have no clue what's going on and very far from reality. I don't think you know how it feels that your nation has utterly no credit for its creation, for its food, for its medicine. A nation that copies the west and can't contribute anything useful to the world.

 

 

 

The only thing I would advise you here is to try to lower your judgments regarding their beliefs, practices, and behaviors. I tell you this since I have similar feelings to behavior and rigid beliefs of some traditional Serbs in my country. They are a people, a living community, that contributes its worth to people in the country you share with them with their work, culture, and maintained family communities, lessen the judgments you have about them and try to understand them from their point of view, and from that try to adjust your behavior and feelings that you have towards them in order to seek mutual consensus that you have with them, let them grow and come to understand things at their own pace. Each perspective exists with a purpose and each perspective has different experiences and traumas that they carry with them in their life. I try to embody and to live with that insight in mind regarding the people I live with within my own country, they exist with the purpose and their perspective is valid because it comes from a different lived experience than my own, but of course, for the sake of the development of the country as a whole, it needs to evolve at some point, which means shedding their former perspective and self. I don't mean for this to sound like some kumbaya, you need to live through and experience some of the other's perspective and lived experience in order to understand, by which I mean no to regress to it but to understand the pain and hurt that comes with it that turned it to what it is, that is to see it as what it is, a critical step in order for it to come to some mutual understanding.

That is all else I have to say about this thread regarding my non-lived experience opinion of where those Iraqi comments and attitudes are coming from, again didn't want to come off as sounding like I am lecturing you online regarding your own life and living experience within the country itself, of course, the judgments you have that come from that lived experience will be a lot of times way more based and grounded in the actual reality of the current situation and in the experience of actually being born and living in Iraq than some observation and opinion of a stranger online who has zero living experience within the country itself and can only infer his opinions and observations about it based on text, theories he has read and video clips he has watched. 

 

 

 

 

 


"Keep your eye on the ball. " - Michael Brooks 

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Man, sometimes my cynicism just takes over...

Well done, Dubya.

1FF0EB5F-E708-454D-849A-57D0295E7143.jpeg

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13 hours ago, Milos Uzelac said:

Again, my intent for responding to your thread was not to lecture you as some unknown stranger online with no lived experience within your country and not to be confrontational regarding your assertions about your fellow Iraqis. You live in Iraq, you have a lived experience within the country and the people's beliefs and behaviors there so I trust your judgment from a living experience perspective regarding their beliefs, behaviors, and levels of their development.

Not to worry please, I appreciate the time you took to converse with me even though I'm not the best at the ethics of a discussion.

13 hours ago, Milos Uzelac said:

The only thing I would advise you here is to try to lower your judgments regarding their beliefs, practices, and behaviors. I tell you this since I have similar feelings to behavior and rigid beliefs of some traditional Serbs in my country. They are a people, a living community, that contributes its worth to people in the country you share with them with their work, culture, and maintained family communities, lessen the judgments you have about them and try to understand them from their point of view,

You can always lower your judgment, if you let the shit of others accumulate, soon all will be drowned in shit. Your advice is valid an applies on all situation.  I think it is a matter of choice. One day, someone has to do something in order to bring people up a higher perspective, and this is what I am trying to do with my people. With some knowledge gained from here, I am trying to pop-up the inflated balloons that are driven by belief in conspiracy theories and wrong perspective.

 

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14 hours ago, Willie said:

Man, sometimes my cynicism just takes over...

Well done, Dubya.

1FF0EB5F-E708-454D-849A-57D0295E7143.jpeg

 

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