OneIntoOne

Your most effective method for 'not believing the mind'

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Share your top of the list most effective method for 'not believing the mind'

(I believe) this is one of the most important Spiritual rituals to master, and yet one of the hardest tools to master.

What worked best for you?

How exactly did you do it?

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 "If you can't trust yourself, you can't trust anything. Because if you can't trust yourself, can you trust your mistrust of yourself?” - Alan Watts.


"I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people."

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Posted (edited)

When the mind starts to turn everything upside down, I know that is it doing its devilry.

Edited by Gianna

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Posted (edited)

Actually I got some quite valuable technique to share for this.

Just one example: Consider you want to trust the fact that you don't have to force yourself in order to make changes in your life. You want to be able to let go and trust that the time will come where such a movement will arise naturally and spontaneously, which is not something you have to do by force but something that is acted upon from a place of empowerment. Perhaps maybe some discipline is indeed going to be required, but even this discipline has its roots in the domain of power rather than the domain of force, which is the domain where you becomes tense and fragmented. 

One part of you wants to believe and trust that indeed this is true, another part of you is anxious and skeptical and worries that maybe you are just befooling yourself, and you really should just give yourself a kick under the ass. But you don't want to give yourself a kick under the ass, because you want to relax more in life and not be so anxious or neurotic that if you don't force yourself to change, you will stay in the same undesirable pattern or situation which you had been in.

In such moments, it can be hard to 'just trust' that the right moment will come on its own. Life experience and doing more and more inner work will help you to come to that place of trust more easily, but you can aid yourself in this a little bit. I'll tell you how.

Get yourself a notebook. Preferably A4 size rather than A5. On every page of the notebook write down the page number manually in either the top-corner or the top-right corner (always on the outside rather than the inside, horizontally speaking) until you get to the end of the book.

On the first page, make an index. Simply write down 1 until the number of pages the notebook has on every line. I'll take 85 as an example. I believe an A4 sized notebook may have around 30 lines, so on the first page you have 1 to 30 numbered, second 31 to 60, third 61 to 85.

So the idea about this notebook is about keeping track and by becoming aware and getting insight in your own personal experience you will get to dismiss the myths and stories that your ego-mind fabricates and gets attached to that would make it easy for you to be fearful or neurotic or depressed about something or whatever, making it difficult for you to trust and let go.

So this is the way I do it: So with the example that I gave, about wanting to trust that (meaningful) changes can be made without needing to force yourself, but instead waiting and trusting that the right moment will come.

Write down the summarized version of the narrative on the top of any given page (except for the index). Just an example: page 34. Then you write down at the top of page 34 these words in quotation marks: "I need to force myself to make changes otherwise no meaningful change will happen" or "I can't trust that important changes can't happen on their own. I need to force myself if I want them to happen". Also, write down this statement at number 34 on your own index that you had created at the beginning of your notebook.

And then, throughout the time, become aware of moments where these statements are not true. Then, write down these moments where you got evidence that the narrative that you had written down turned out to be not true at that moment on the corresponding page in your notebook, in this example on page 34. Also put a date stamp in front of what you're going to write. You then will get evidence that the myths that your own ego-mind had fabricated are simply that: myths and stories, not based on reality.

An example of what you could be writing down: "26-04-21 (or 04-26-21 for you Americans): Today I had finally come to take action towards sending an application for that volunteer work organization I had been wanting to become a volunteer of after postponing it and feeling a lot of resistance towards taking that step for weeks now. I noticed today when I took action, that this resistance wasn't present anymore and it felt just like something natural to be finally sending this application"

You could just be remembering that moment and trying to imprint in your memory and hoping that by remembering it it will work sufficiently enough for you that you can keep that faith or trust, but by writing it down you not only get access to a method where you don't need to put all of those memories into your head as you just have it on paper, but by writing down it also registers much better into your system opposed to if you just tried to remember it in your head alone. On top of that, any time you need a little bit of trust where the trust you have inherently doesn't seem to be there, you can always just take your notebook for reference and read a moment where this thing you had difficulty having trust in that it could be true actually turned out the be true on an occasion in the past.

People may say "trust is all you need", and indeed it is true that the more life experience you get the more you will get this natural trust, but your ego-mind tends to be very tricky and sticky and it can definitely help to become more aware and conscious of some direct evidence alongside trying to develop a more non-evidence based inherent trust in life.

So I say have both, both trust and evidence, as there is only a degree as to which natural trust can reach without having the evidence or the memory of the evidence.

Edited by Nightwise

Instead of trying to make the right decision, make your decisions right.

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15 minutes ago, Nightwise said:

Write down the summarized version of the narrative on the top of any given page (except for the index). Just an example: page 34. Then you write down at the top of page 34 these words in quotation marks: "I need to force myself to make changes otherwise no meaningful change will happen" or "I can't trust that important changes can't happen on their own. I need to force myself if I want them to happen". Also, write down this statement at number 34 on your own index that you had created at the beginning of your notebook.

 

Do we just pick whichever narrative we're feeling that day? And then come back after the day and write down the ways is was not true? Do we ever write down the ways in which it was true? 

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Thank you @Nightwise for writing out this post. My mind has been going through this example you gave and I believe this will help. 

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When a thought arises, you realize that it's a thought. Job done.


To balance beauty and complexity so perfectly is a divine mystery.

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3 hours ago, OneIntoOne said:

Your most effective method for 'not believing the mind'

Watching the mind.

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The secret to distrusting the conditioned mind is simple: Suffer. When you have suffered enough, your eyes will open, and you will directly realize the source of your suffering. All this time, it was the monkey mind making you miserable. Only then will you have the strength to sacrifice its constant chatter to the void. Sweet, sweet silence at last ?

Don't be fooled, though. Just because you have awakened doesn't mean the monkey is dead. It will constantly try to climb back out, and whisper into your ear. Vigilance and single-pointed attention will keep you safe, which as it turns out, is the point of practicing meditation. ?‍♂️

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Seeing the humor in stuff. Effortless. Also helps to have one or two asshole friends to laugh with who won't let you get away with your own bullshit. 


My Youtube Channel- Light on Earth “We dance round in a ring and suppose, but the Secret sits in the middle and knows.”― Robert Frost

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4 hours ago, OneIntoOne said:

Share your top of the list most effective method for 'not believing the mind'

(I believe) this is one of the most important Spiritual rituals to master, and yet one of the hardest tools to master.

What worked best for you?

How exactly did you do it?

Be witness of the thoughts. 

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Everything in reality is one thing. If reality is a screen with a movie being projected on it (but was made of nothing/consciousness), thoughts and feelings are occurring on that screen as well. Thoughts in reality/screen have no more or less meaning than a cloud or a tree that you experience. So "I" do not separate thoughts from the screen (which is not possible). Whatever is occurring on the screen is perfect and just the way it is.

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For me it's very simple:

If I feel a negative emotion that's when I know that something is wrong with my perspective, so I just disregard it as falsehood.

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Posted (edited)

12 hours ago, Gianna said:

Do we just pick whichever narrative we're feeling that day? And then come back after the day and write down the ways is was not true? Do we ever write down the ways in which it was true? 

You can indeed write down the narrative you want to examine or disprove before you get the correct reference experience for seeing that that thought indeed is not (always) true. It's funny that when you ask it now I can't even remember that well how I have been doing it. You can also do it afterwards, meaning that at the moment you are conscious that a certain narrative isn't true at that moment or does not feel to be as true, whereas you know that in the past it used to be, then you can make a new entry at that moment.

One tricky thing with this technique is that it doesn't work that well if you're actively looking for evidence. Instead, you wanna let go and let the right moment come into your life spontaneously at a particular moment, uncreated and unanticipated. If you are actively looking to find counter-evidence, then this seeking energy will create more tension, and this greater amount of tension will make it so that it becomes a lot more unlikely that you will find yourself in a spontaneous moment where some kind of narrative or neurotic tension isn't present at that moment. On top of that, what I've noticed is that if you weren't seeking or actively looking out for it and it suddenly occurs, if you then write it down it also registers a lot better. It doesn't just register better because you write it down (though that also helps a lot), but if it happens spontaneously there is a greater sense of clarity and with that also a greater sense that it is indeed true that the narrative you had isn't true at that moment, and therefore it locks a lot better into your subconscious.

And as far as your last question is concerned: No, because the intention of this technique is to detach from narratives you are bothered by, and you already know the fact that a particular narrative you find yourself attached to is bothering you. Therefore there isn't really a point in writing that down. Yes, it sometimes occurs that indeed that narrative is true at a particular moment, but the point is that you can make yourself more easily believe that it doesn't always have to be that way and thus find the moments where indeed it isn't that way. Or in other words, you get a greater sense of confidence in the age-old saying "this too shall pass", as sometimes the ego-mind likes to doubt that, even if that doubt is subconsciously (and because it is subconscious finding (counter-)evidence can really help.)

However, you can indeed also make a separate notebook where you write in evidence for yourself for things you actually want to be true. For example: If you're setting up a meditation habit for yourself, you note down the moments where you have found yourself really being benefited by the meditation (even if the meditation itself wasn't pleasant). I for instance some days ago was feeling very restless, stressed and uncentered, and I was thinking of calling off the band that evening which I have rehearsal with every week, and then I started meditating for one hour and after that hour I noticed that I was feeling a lot calmer and that I was ready to go to the band that evening and I didn't feel tempted anymore to call it off. I then alter that evening wrote down that experience and that confirmed to me that meditation was actually something that could be really helpful whereas before I was sometimes doubting that I was befooling myself thinking that meditation did anything good for me

But this would be a different notebook you would use for that. So this notebook is then called: "evidence", for things I want to be true and also to a certain degree things I find to be true which I don't necessarily want to be true, but I would only write down the latter if you're willing to face the fact that you find something to be true (at least for that moment) which you didn't really want to be true or take responsibility for if you're ready to make changes according to that fact. For instance, if you notice that eating a particular food or doing a particular exercise or being in a particular environment or whatever helps you to be more clear or to feel better, it could mean that now you're gonna have to face the fact that you're gonna have to make changes to your lifestyle in order to align with these new facts or evidence if feeling better is a priority for you at that moment. And sometimes that can be a bit too much. For myself, I notice that I'm still much more wanting to go in the direction of detaching and not changing or manipulating anything and just going with the flow of my feelings. And if I try to change or manipulate my life's experience by trying to do certain things to make me feel better based on logic, evidence and facts, I notice this creates too much tension and stress within me therefore at this moment the benefit does not outweigh the cost, and therefore I do not bother trying to investigate if a particular food helped me or whatever. I want to do such a thing intuitively and not logically at this moment still. I even do this with food that normally people would label as 'unhealthy'. As long as I feel good eating it and there's no inner conflict whilst consuming this particular type of food, I genuinely feel like it's a responsible and correct choice for me to make at that moment.

But alas, I got a bit sidetracked too much.

So I name the one notebook I've just mentioned "evidence", and then the other notebook which we were initially talking about it called "counter-evidence", for things or narratives I'm attached to which I want to detach from.

Edited by Nightwise

Instead of trying to make the right decision, make your decisions right.

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Experience states of consciousness which would’ve previously been unimaginable on a regular basis. The mind is eventually seen to be so temporary and flimsy in Existence that you can’t help but realize it is just a little slice of one possible way of making up the story of where you think you find yourself. 


You mistake my Raja Yoga. 

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Create a gap between the thoughts and that which seems to identify with them. 


“Everything is honoured, but nothing matters.” — Eckhart Tolle.

"I have lived on the lip of insanity, wanting to know reasons, knocking on a door. It opens. I've been knocking from the inside." -- Rumi

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