Wilhelm44

How come super enlightened people don't play a bigger role on the world stage ?

39 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Helping lots of people requires accumulating power, which is antithetical to Truth, Consciousness, and Love.

Can you elaborate? Cause I feel like we demonize the concept of power too much 

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Because most "enlightened" people would fold under real world pressure at the higher levels and they know it. Enlightenment doesn't give you superpowers or anything beyond the Truth, which is why they tend to teach instead. "Those who can, do; those who can't, teach."

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52 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

Can you elaborate? Cause I feel like we demonize the concept of power too much 

Yeah, but if you didn't demonize it you would be awake and thus not need any more help.

The people who need the most help are precisely those who will bite the hand that feeds them.

36 minutes ago, AuthenticSelf said:

Because most "enlightened" people would fold under real world pressure at the higher levels and they know it. ... "Those who can, do; those who can't, teach."

Nonsense.

It is just largely pointless trying to force wisdom down the throats of fools. Wisdom, Truth, Love, Goodness, and Consciousness are not things that can be forced on others. When the student is ready the teacher will appear. But hardly anyone is ready.

15 minutes ago, Lucas-fgm said:

There is no such like accumulating power being antithetical, since, in the case of money, it has being earned producing massive value to the universe

Haha! How naive. The majority of the world's wealth was accumulated through theft, exploitation, lies, deception, fraud, tax evasion, corruption, bribery, monopoly, backstabbing, extortion, slavery, murder, assassination, and war.

Where did Trump get all his money? Hint: It wasn't through providing massive value to the world. Look at all the richest men in the world. Every single one of them stole or exploited to get it -- if not worse. It is impossible to earn a billion dollars without some serious, world-class levels of exploitation. Only a deeply selfish and unconscious man could stomach it.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

Why do you think these things don't add massive value to the universe?

Aren't all of these things "love", too, and don't matter unless you care about that sorta thing? 

So, why would enlightenment add any more value than any of these things?

Sigh...

Watch how you conflate the relative and absolute.

If everything is love, then me not teaching you anything is too.

Nothing matters, and it matters especially little to bend oneself over backwards to teach fools.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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@modmyth  Not sure I understand your question, how would what even work logistically/hypothetically ?

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Same reason why veganism is not playing a dominant role

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@Leo Gura   If nothing really matters, and there's no one really to teach, why do you still teach ?

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2 hours ago, Wilhelm44 said:

@Leo Gura   If nothing really matters, and there's no one really to teach, why do you still teach ?

What else is there to do?

Doing nothing is also a doing. Doing happens regardless.

13 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

In the topic about eating less meat you responded, "it won't save the planet because the planet is already safe", which is simply evading an ugly reality. 

No evasion at all. The planet is not going anywhere. The planet is safe. You're not going to kill the planet with some CO2 emissions. The planet is not so fragile.

Maybe don't be so fearful ;)

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But when it's about topics that you have an emotional position about, suddenly those relative things (corruption, exploitation, deception, etc.) become an issue for you.

They are only an issue in an illusory, relative sense.

The planet dying does not even rise to that level of problem because it's not going to happen.

You might as well stress out over the sun dying out.

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So, it seems you are using the absolute as an escape whenever it is convenient for you and you prefer to stick your head in the sand.

Well, the Absolute escapes all problems. That's sorta its point. Yes, I use the Absolute to not worry about shit as much as I am able. Doesn't mean I'm perfect at it. Yet.

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Then why do you dedicate your entire life to it?

Because I enjoy it and there is nothing better to do until I'm dead.

My work has no importance in any true sense. It's a game I play with myself and you can come along for the ride, if you dare. There is no importance in saving the life of anyone. To think so would be a narcissistic delusion. You will never be free so long as you think people need saving.

The only one who needs to be saved is yourself, from your own delusion that anything is wrong.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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"I believe you are more afraid of condemning me to the stake than for me to receive your cruel and disproportionate punishment."

- Giordano Bruno, Campo de' Fiori, Rome, Italy. February 17th, 1600.

Cosmic pluralist, mathematician and poet.

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1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yes of course, "the planet" in an absolute sense is safe. But when we say "the planet", we of course mean a planet that supports human life in a way that it can thrive. This is not so safe and is very much impacted by CO2 emissions.

I mean the planet is safe in the relative sense. Human life ain't going anywhere. C02 will not even put a dent in it.

Which is not to say we should not move to green energy. We should! I endorse a Green New Deal sort of plan. But also it cannot happen globally yet because developing countries would suffer too much and they simply aren't capable of it.

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Again escaping an ugly relative reality by pointing out an absolute one...

No

Read my words with more nuance.

As a good rule of thumb, rather than assuming I'm saying something dumb, assume I'm saying something intelligent, and you'll be more right than wrong ;)

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I think it's fine to use the Absolute as a means for inner peace, but when it comes to tackling problems in the relative world, it actually becomes a means for "devilry". 

All relative problems need to be properly recontextualized within the Absolute, otherwise you get devilry.

It's a tricky act to pull of well. I understand your frustration.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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50 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The whole point of green energy is to avoid the negative impact of traditional energy on our lives.

 

So, why do you endorse green energy if you don't believe CO2 affects human life in any negative way?

 

This doesn't make any sense. 

 

And BTW studies show it very much impacts our health...

To me, it seems you created these two worlds, the relative and the absolute, and you switch to the one which best supports your argument whenever convenient for you.

And when something questioned too deeply or you just don't want to deal with it, you resort to the absolute perspective as an ultimate escape because from that point of view "nothing matters".

According to you, a Zen Devil is someone who has the experience of Satori but doesn’t expand his knowledge of the world. 

So, is this not "zen-devilry"?

Well, he talked about the planet being "safe". Whatever label of "relative" or "absolute" you put on it. You're making a mistake by imposing that framing here, it's unnecessary. It's confusing your discussion for no reason. 

This is about what Leo or you think about the effects of global warming, what can be done and what should be done. Perhaps Leo is highlighting an aspect of "how much can realistically be done?" but you're misinterpreting that as him being anti green energy. 

And he already described some his reasoning in general. He's pro green energy. But developing countries can't afford the luxury as much to have green energy. Ecological awareness is seen as a luxury from Survival's POV, especially in those countries. That much would be pretty obvious if you went to some of them. 

So you can't force these countries to do something as radical as stop burning fossil fuels, not anytime soon. Especially when you consider that we did it to get rich, no way they'd listen to us hypocrites.

Edited by lmfao

Hark ye yet again — the little lower layer. All visible objects, man, are but as pasteboard masks. But in each event — in the living act, the undoubted deed — there, some unknown but still reasoning thing puts forth the mouldings of its features from behind the unreasoning mask. If man will strike, strike through the mask! How can the prisoner reach outside except by thrusting through the wall? To me, the white whale is that wall, shoved near to me. Sometimes I think there's naught beyond. But 'tis enough.

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10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Haha! How naive. The majority of the world's wealth was accumulated through theft, exploitation, lies, deception, fraud, tax evasion, corruption, bribery, monopoly, backstabbing, extortion, slavery, murder, assassination, and war.

Where did Trump get all his money? Hint: It wasn't through providing massive value to the world. Look at all the richest men in the world. Every single one of them stole or exploited to get it -- if not worse. It is impossible to earn a billion dollars without some serious, world-class levels of exploitation. Only a deeply selfish and unconscious man could stomach it.

You dropped a truth bomb which shattered the spiritual conscious-capitalists' fantasies (self-deception). A display of integrity there.

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7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

Nothing matters, and it matters especially little to bend oneself over backwards to teach fools.

I have a genuine question @Leo Gura. Then why create a life purpose if it doesn't matter? Currently I have a successful e-commerce business but I am thinking about helping others by teaching. Why would I switch careers if it doesn't matter whether I help people or not? How can I take my life purpose seriously if it doesn't matter whether I help people or not? I would switch career if my work would actually matter to the world.

Again, genuine question.

Edited by xbcc

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17 minutes ago, xbcc said:

I have a genuine question @Leo Gura. Then why create a life purpose if it doesn't matter? Currently I have a successful e-commerce business but I am thinking about helping others by teaching. Why would I switch careers if it doesn't matter whether I help people or not? How can I take my life purpose seriously if it doesn't matter whether I help people or not? I would switch career if my work would actually matter to the world.

Again, genuine question.

This is called the relative/absolute conflation. From a relative perspective, things matter. Having a life purpose and helping people matters relative to whatever human standard you want to set for yourself. But from an absolute perspective, nothing matters. However, that doesn't really change much, because from an absolute perspective, humans don't even exist. So as long as you're still human (relatively speaking), you should still strive to live as humanely as possible (whatever that means for you).

Edited by Carl-Richard

Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

 

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Jesus The Christ 


"I believe you are more afraid of condemning me to the stake than for me to receive your cruel and disproportionate punishment."

- Giordano Bruno, Campo de' Fiori, Rome, Italy. February 17th, 1600.

Cosmic pluralist, mathematician and poet.

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@Eternal Unity  Ye 9_9

:x

What Can We Learn from Nelson Mandela's Life - by Sadhguru

Hero of humanity = Freedom fighter = 26,5 years in prison

 

 

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