Does Success Hurt Woman's Dating Chances

[Preety_India]

23 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

Or because of feminist conditioning that says 'Men should be attracted to a strong, independent woman. If he isn't attracted to that, he's weak' and then your career is a test to test for how strong the guy is. Or an avoidance-strategy in the context of relationship.

There are those women who are really relationship-oriented but because they lack self-worth, they have a 'life-purpose', which, in reality, is workaholism and then this feminist conditioning turns into a justification for their lack of self-worth. Prioritizing the 'life purpose' is not something that's natural to them, it's something that's conditioned into them. Then comes the whole stereotype of buying 9 cats. To be fair, you probably don't relate because your authentic priority probably is your life purpose.

This is stereotypical thinking. Not everyone thinks this way 

I never thought that men are attracted to strong independent women. I don't think that a man who is not attracted to her is weak either, everyone has preferences and they are going to have partners based on them. 

I want to have a genuine life purpose because I find it very fulfilling for my life, everyone has different desires and needs, not every woman is oriented to family making, a woman is not a monolith, we're humans and like every human, we all have different desires, there is no "why" to those desires they simply exist. Different women have different interests just like different men are in different fields

 I never came across a woman who had a certain life goal because of low self worth, in fact the opposite was true, women who had low self worth were not very invested in a life purpose or goal because they weren't confident enough to have a direction in life, remove the word woman for a second and simply focus on them as human beings and you'll find their actions are universal, even men with low self worth feel very hesitant about a fixed life purpose and roam around aimlessly, also the 9 cats thing. Those are all stereotypes. Married women keep cats too. 

 

Edited April 24, 2021 by Preety_India

[Emerald]

27 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

Wonderful post @Emerald.

This is so true. I would say that developing yourself and your career is the best way of attracting a life, a partner and friends who suits you best.

Thank you! For sure. That’s always been my experience.

A career is important as it allows you to provide value to society.  So theoretically, a career can be extremely fulfilling. But a lot of us aren't having a career who is aligned with who we are, so we've got a difficult relationship with it. I would say that this is even the norm.

Yeah, I would say that’s true for most. That’s why the whole idea of ‘women becoming work-a-holics because Feminist conditioning’ is the exception and not the rule. Most women (and people in general) work because they have no other choice. And maybe 10-15% of women (and people in general) are working because they really want to. And of those people who are working because they want to, probably half of them or more are motivated by genuine excitement about the career than some abstract conditioning.

An aligned career with your core essence will make you one of the very best in your field. It would rather feel effortless and you'd not want to spend your time doing anything else but what you're gifted for. It is your life's purpose.

And since you're spending a lot of your time in your career, it is the best mean to spread your essence around and see who resonates.

Quote

I see it a bit like being a spider building a cobweb (or maybe a diamond's net ) with it's energetic signature and meet all the beings who are getting captured in it.

For instance, we are all on this forum because each of us resonate with Leo's work in some way. We are all caught in his web. 
 

That’s what I’ve found. When you have good social networking, this gives you connections with a lot of like-minded people who share your values and interests. And these are really the best circumstances for finding a high quality and compatible partner. 

It is quite a bit like a spider web.

 

Edited April 24, 2021 by Emerald

[Consept]

49 minutes ago, Emerald said:

@intotheblack @Raptorsin7 @Consept @Preety_India

“Also what is being assumed here is that said woman is striving for success for the purpose of believing that this will help her attract a man.  Or that if the woman is successful it must mean she’s not as physically attractive so is choosing career to try and make herself more attractive (in the way that men do) which I don’t think is the case,  for women they are doing that more out or choice, not because they think it will attract more men.”

This is also important to realize in relation to the original post.

Women generally aren’t going into careers for the purpose of attracting men. They do so either out of necessity or because it’s what really lights their fire.

I can say from experience that my desire to follow my passions, which is something I’ve always been oriented to even as a little kid, is all about the excitement and fulfillment found within the engagement of the passion itself.

There’s never been a thought process of, “Okay, I’m going to develop this super successful career and the men are gonna love me.”

The life-purpose has never been a bargaining chip for some other desired outcome. The life-purpose itself is the desired outcome. 

I totally get what your saying and I think most on the thread do. But I feel like you're somewhat misunderstanding the central point. Ill try and break it down consicely 

Im not saying women in general are striving for success specifically to get a man. What I'm saying is that if you are successful that doesn't raise our attraction to you, it doesn't necessarily decrease it either, some might like it more some might like it less but it's not a big factor. Therefore if you don't want to cut out most men you shouldn't have high standards on the basis that you're successful, it will be based on how men value you normally. 

So if you are doing your life purpose because you love it that's great and if I'm dating you and I like you then I'll probably like your life purpose, but if your life purpose was a family and I wanted that too I'd also be behind that. Its not the main point of attraction. 

As has been mentioned before, some successful women develop masculine traits to get to where they are. This is not attractive. If you are successful without these masculine traits, that is attractive.

Side note I'm watching dragons den (English shark tank) the panel is usually 3 men 2 women, all of them are multi-millionaires, I've never once been attracted to any of the women on there, haven't even considered it. But the men on there are usually attractive to women. There's another show 'the apprentice', with a woman on there who's on the panel, also a multi-millionaire, but to me she's attractive, she comes across feminine, caring, good looking. So it's really nothing to do with the success either way from my perspective. 

Lastly if you are a strong, successful woman, you are free to go for a more caring feminine man, this would make more sense for balance 

Edited April 24, 2021 by Consept

[wwhy]

13 minutes ago, Consept said:

Therefore if you don't want to cut out most men you shouldn't have high standards on the basis that you're successful, it will be based on how men value you normally. 

What do you mean "how men value you normally"? Is she supposed to imagine an alternate universe where she is not successful and choose a partner based on that? Really? Would you do that yourself... choose your partner by imagining you are something else?

13 minutes ago, Consept said:

Lastly if you are a strong, successful woman, you are free to go for a more caring feminine man, this would make more sense for balance 

What I am getting from this, is that you believe strength and success is a masculine trait, yes?

Edited April 24, 2021 by wwhy

[Emerald]

@Consept I know that’s what you’re saying. 

A few other guys are saying otherwise. They’re actually arguing that successful women are less appealing.

But I tagged you because you were involved in the earlier conversation and I wanted to address this point.

The OP’s premise that women believe they can use their career success for the purpose of attracting men or that women pursue career to attract men is incorrect in the first place.

Women pursue career for reasons independent of relationship concerns. And I’m certain that nearly all women aren’t under the assumption that their career success will act as an aphrodisiac, 

 

[Consept]

4 minutes ago, Emerald said:

@Consept I know that’s what you’re saying. 

A few other guys are saying otherwise. They’re actually arguing that successful women are less appealing.

But I tagged you because you were involved in the earlier conversation and I wanted to address this point.

The OP’s premise that women believe they can use their career success for the purpose of attracting men or that women pursue career to attract men is incorrect in the first place.

Women pursue career for reasons independent of relationship concerns. And I’m certain that nearly all women aren’t under the assumption that their career success will act as an aphrodisiac, 

 

OK fair play, like i said I do get where you're coming from. 

There are probably more women than you think that get high powered careers either to attract a high level man or once they find themselves on a high powered career expect a high level man. It happens a lot more in the black community to be honest with you and there a lot of historical reasons for it. This was a viral video that went round a few months ago, but literally women drop into his stream asking for advice everyday - 

 

11 minutes ago, wwhy said:

What do you mean "how men value you normally"? Is she supposed to imagine an alternate universe where she is not successful and choose a partner based on that? Really? Would you do that yourself... choose your partner by imagining you are something else?

Lol don't be outraged, I can clarify for you. I'm saying if a man chooses based on looks, feminine quality, cooperativeness or whatever his factors are, the womans success is not really a factor in the selection. For a lot of women the man's success or lack thereof, is usually a factor amongst other factors. 

 

13 minutes ago, wwhy said:

What I am getting from this, is that you believe strength and success is a masculine trait, yes?

Strength as in physical strength, yes. Success not necessarily, its more that the masculine energy is more determined to be successful, whatever that means for the individual. If we're talking about men they tend to value success more, which makes sense given the whole history of humans. Also this is not necessarily a good thing if its taken to the extreme, you get workolholism and miss out on life. 

What would you consider masculine and feminine traits? 

[Derek White]

I must add an obvious point here, many working and middle class men and women do care about the financial status of their spouse simply because they value money. “Money doesn’t matter” is a childish notion, I don’t think it’s popular outside of this forum, money helps you afford a better life for your family.

[wwhy]

"Lol don't be outraged, I can clarify for you. I'm saying if a man chooses based on looks, feminine quality, cooperativeness or whatever his factors are, the woman's success is not really a factor in the selection. For a lot of women the man's success or lack thereof, is usually a factor amongst other factors. "

Nah, was just mild irritated. If you thought that's me outraged, then you really don't want to see me outraged

Nice link, very relevant to me, and I see where you are coming from. But also, she is a special case, so not a very good example... a successful woman is one thing, but a successful black woman in the usa is another level. Feel a bit sorry for her, seems like a nice person. She should have paid for that appointment

Personally, all things being equal I'd pick the more successful woman who has got all her shit together as my life partner.

"Strength as in physical strength, yes. Success not necessarily, its more that the masculine energy is more determined to be successful, whatever that means for the individual. If we're talking about men they tend to value success more, which makes sense given the whole history of humans. Also this is not necessarily a good thing if its taken to the extreme, you get workolholism and miss out on life. "

C'mon. You know I was not talking about physical strength. Nature very wisely gave men that... but on all other fronts.. mental, emotional, spiritual, social etc etc. Gender does not matter.

"What would you consider masculine and feminine traits?"

Edited April 24, 2021 by wwhy

[Consept]

9 minutes ago, wwhy said:

Nah, was just mild irritated. If you thought that's me outraged, then you really don't want to see me outraged

Nice link, very relevant to me, and I see where you are coming from. But also, she is a special case, so not a very good example... a successful woman is one thing, but a successful black woman in the usa is another level. Feel a bit sorry for her, seems like a nice person. She should have paid for that appointment

Personally, all things being equal I'd pick the more successful woman who has got all her shit together as my life partner.

I always think when people say 'Really?' Its code for im outraged  

Shes not actually that much of a special case, that guy does a 2 hour stream every night filled with women like her calling in. I feel sorry for the successful black woman in America as well, but there really needs to be a shift in mentality otherwise theyre gonna find themselves stuck in terms of relationships. 

Having their shit together? yes of course, successful? either way, put it this way if i asked them what they did and they said nurse i wouldnt be like 'nah this aint gonna work'.

14 minutes ago, wwhy said:

C'mon. You know I was not talking about physical strength. Nature very wisely gave men that... but on all other fronts.. mental, emotional, spiritual, social etc etc. Gender does not matter.

OK on those fronts usually women are stronger yes, mental is tricky as it has a lot of factors and different aspects, but definitely women tend to have better emotional intelligence, are more likely to be open to real spirituality and are definitely better socially. Even now girls have surpassed boys in school, in most subjects including maths (which is usually said to favour boys 'logical mind'). So here in lies the problem, women are going to have a tough time finding men that are better or even equal to them and the way things are going it will get harder. Not saying its good a bad but attitudes and expectations will have change. 

Yep and i agree with your masculine and feminine trait list 

 

 

[wwhy]

3 minutes ago, Consept said:

I always think when people say 'Really?' Its code for im outraged  

 

True. And I did not add  the question mark did I? So different case, believe me..

[wwhy]

7 minutes ago, Consept said:

Having their shit together? yes of course, successful? either way, put it this way if i asked them what they did and they said nurse i wouldnt be like 'nah this aint gonna work'.

A nurse has her shit together. It's not about how much they earn... it's about vision, determination and self discipline. I do not want a leech sleeping next to me every night, no matter how hot they are.

[wwhy]

14 minutes ago, Consept said:

Even now girls have surpassed boys in school, in most subjects including maths (which is usually said to favour boys 'logical mind').

Women will never surpass men in the "hard science" careers, just like men will never surpass women in careers that involve care-giving or nurturing. Both genders have their natural strengths, and some jobs just require the underlying skill set, regardless of the individuals gender.

Edited April 24, 2021 by wwhy

[Consept]

22 minutes ago, wwhy said:

Women will never surpass men in the "hard science" careers, just like men will never surpass women in careers that involve care-giving or nurturing. Both genders have their natural strengths, and some jobs just require the underlying skill set, regardless of the individuals gender.

Girls are doing much better than boys in general includong stem subjects - https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/girls-get-better-grades-boys-even-stem-subjects-study-finds-n912891

The effect in on careers may not be as drastic, who knows 

[wwhy]

1 minute ago, Consept said:

Girls are doing much better than boys in general includong stem subjects - https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/girls-get-better-grades-boys-even-stem-subjects-study-finds-n912891

The effect in on careers may not be as drastic, who knows 

The study is talking about kids in high school and young adults in uni. I'm talking about natural preferences and what is actually happening in the job market now. When little girls prefer playing with toy cars rather than dolls, then that's the day I'll admit a shift has occurred. Otherwise each gender will naturally gravitate towards the careers that make the best use of their natural talents and preferences,

[Raptorsin7]

4 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

This is so true. I would say that developing yourself and your career is the best way of attracting a life, a partner and friends who suits you best.

If your goal is attracting a male partner your career will do very little, see everyone guy's response above. If someone took your advice serisouly they would be deluding themselves.

4 hours ago, wwhy said:

What do you mean "how men value you normally"? Is she supposed to imagine an alternate universe where she is not successful and choose a partner based on that? Really? Would you do that yourself... choose your partner by imagining you are something else?

4 hours ago, Consept said:

@wwhy Men don't value a woman's a career when picking a partner. So, yes, she should choose a partner that is largely independent of her career because dating is a market and males and females are valued based on completely different criteria

[Raptorsin7]

3 hours ago, Derek White said:

I must add an obvious point here, many working and middle class men and women do care about the financial status of their spouse simply because they value money. “Money doesn’t matter” is a childish notion, I don’t think it’s popular outside of this forum, money helps you afford a better life for your family.

@Derek White No one's saying money doesn't matter absolutely, it just doesn't matter to men the same way it matters to woman in choosing a partner.

And that middle class man who values money will value his partner's looks and femininity over her bank account 9 times out of 10. 

There's also incredible value in having a partner. A woman capable of inspiring and lighting up a man's life will enhance his ability to earn money, even if she is just a house wife doing nothing but raising kids

[Derek White]

Also, if you are a housewife with no work experience and no education, it's going to become very hard for you to leave your husband if the relationship doesn't work out. Your mind won't let you leave an abusive relationship because you would be dependent on your partner. Not focusing on your career is bad advice. 

3 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

There's also incredible value in having a partner. A woman capable of inspiring and lighting up a man's life will enhance his ability to earn money, even if she is just a house wife doing nothing but raising kid

Many career women have looks and femininity. The experience you get from having a career makes you a wiser and a more rounded person. I think career women are more interesting because of their career. You can combine your skills with a career woman and create something completely new. I know women who have post-secondary education who chose to remain housewives and women who are working, there is a visible difference between the maturity levels. You learn so much if you pursue your life purpose, you have to become a better person.

Not to mention, a woman who's life purpose is only raising her children, counter-intuitively, creates a very toxic environment for them. Like Emerald said, you can't fill with an empty cup. 

10 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

And that middle class man who values money will value his partner's looks and femininity over her bank account 9 times out of 10.

I think many of the things that you value in a woman are very shallow and superficial. You may also be projecting your own values onto other men, just because 3-4 men on a niche forum agree on something doesn't mean all men agree with it.

Many of the men on the forum want the woman to support them in their careers and life but don't want to support their female partners' career goals back. It seems you guys want a woman who makes you feel good when you come home and takes care of the kids. To me that's a bland person, and you know career women can do that anyway.

[Raptorsin7]

2 minutes ago, Derek White said:

I think many of the things that you value in a woman are very shallow and superficial. You may also be projecting your own values onto other men, just because 3-4 men on a niche forum agree on something doesn't mean all men agree with it.

Many of the men on the forum want the woman to support them in their careers and life but don't want to support their female partners' career goals back. It seems you guys want a woman who makes you feel good when you come home and takes care of the kids. To me that's a bland person, and you know career women can do that anyway.

Haha okay. You can be 1/10 guy who is happy with a successful, career oriented woman. You won't have much competition, should work well

 

Edited April 24, 2021 by Raptorsin7

[Raptorsin7]

I think Leo can be a good illustration of what we're talking about. I think most agree he's someone who's living his purpose, etc in a successful.

Imagine dating someone like Leo. The traits required to be a successful entrepreneur pursuing their purpose are not attractive. 

Any man here who has some sense of Leo's personality disposition from his posts, imagine dating a woman who had similar traits or a similar lifestyle. 

[Arcangelo]

12 hours ago, intotheblack said:

.she will be miserable but stay in the relationship because she is dependant on you for money.. 

My step mom