Spiritual teachers with no psychedelic experience

[Forestluv]

3 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Forestluv @trenton Of the past like 10 LSD trips i've gotten seriously nauseous and vomitted. I think medically it would be considered psychedelic resistant but I recognize the nausea as a sort of psychological block.

I think it's fair to say that when a person is fully awake/healed etc they would have no problem with psychs

I get high body load. Even on 10ug LSD, I feel all mediciney and yucky. 

[Raptorsin7]

@trenton If you are aware then you can awaken. 

Everyone who is a someone can find happiness through spiritual practice

[Lyubov]

12 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

I saw a video of a woman who had been seriously doing spirituality for like 40 years. Meditation retreats, nonduality, various forms of yoga etc. I think she was at a Rupert Spira talk and was pleading with him - "what is it going to take? I've heard all this. I've done all this many many times for decades - yet I'm still here unawakened". She seemed so tired of it all. I felt for her. 

what is she really chasing exactly? a state, non-dual awareness, love, what? something seems off about this if you haven't had at least some sort of insight or experience or growth after 40 years. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Lyubov

[Raptorsin7]

@Forestluv Yeah i get that feeling too. I've had a few experiences on lsd where I felt like a psychiatric patient in a hospital haha.

On the otherside of the nausea/sickness etc is bliss and a total change in identity though which is awesome, i don't think I would have known about this if not for psychedelic's 

[Forestluv]

4 minutes ago, trenton said:

@Forestluv what should a person do if it seems like they really can't awaken?

This is important to know in spirituality because it demonstrates that we can't judge people for being selfish devils.  The circumstances of their birth and upbringing could pose real obstacles to awakening.  If people can't experience God directly, then it looks like they have no choice but to either be religious or be an atheist. 

Cases like these could sow the seeds of doubt in future spiritual groups.  It could lead to atheism if we don't let people know that spirituality does not work for everybody.  Imagine the disappointment people would face of they ended up like the unfortunate woman you described.

I think gurus might ignore this because people can easily turn this into a limiting belief.

I'm not sure what a person should do if they have done various practices over a long time period. I have a friend who is super immersed into attaining "enlightenment". She has a sangha, Lama, goes on month-long retreats etc. She has done 4hrs practice / day for years. To her, I suggest enjoying the process more and taking some of the focus off the destination of "enlightenment". I try to talk to her about the process, what's happening now - and she perks up. She has experienced many different conscious states and has had lots of insights. Yet she is still immersed within a personal character she can't quite transcend. 

[Forestluv]

6 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

what is she really chasing exactly? a state, non-dual awareness, love, what? something seems off about this if you haven't had at least some sort of insight or experience or growth after 40 years. 

It would like a 5min. clip. 

My impression is that she had lot's of insights along the way. I think she even said so. She was after "an 'IT' out there". 

[4201]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I'm telling you, the vast majority of spirituality is genetic. Doubt me if you want, but it is what it is.

It's the elephant in the room no teacher dare speak. Yet the facts bear it out. It's not for lack of techniques that creatures lack God-realization. If you are born an ant, you're fucked.

Simple and obvious really. You just don't want to accept it. And none of your rationales or excuses will change this.

But hey, I will not try to debate it or prove it to you. Find out for yourselves.

Do you feel good about the "fact" things are like that?
 

If somehow you became god and could do anything you want with reality, would you change things such that people's genetics no longer hold them back?

[4201]

1 hour ago, Forestluv said:

The idea of being "resistant to psychedelics" interests me. 

Today I was reading about how some people are resistant to certain medications and therapy. It could be similar: that some people are resistant psychedelics. 

I imagine it would be really frustrating if someone had a desire for awakening, yet was a spiritual normie and psychedelic resistant. 

I saw a video of a woman who had been seriously doing spirituality for like 40 years. Meditation retreats, nonduality, various forms of yoga etc. I think she was at a Rupert Spira talk and was pleading with him - "what is it going to take? I've heard all this. I've done all this many many times for decades - yet I'm still here unawakened". She seemed so tired of it all. I felt for her. 

You can have a psychedelic trip and resist to it if you want. But that doesn't mean you are resistant, that would be identifying with thought.

That woman seemed to identify with the idea that awakening was impossible for her. I feel for her too.

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, 4201 said:

Do you feel good about the "fact" things are like that?

How I feel is irrelevant to the matter.

[4201]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

How I feel is irrelevant to the matter.

How you feel is the Truth  

EDIT: I mean this literally. This whole idea doesn't feel good because it's not true. There is nothing that can rob you of your happiness and "awakenings". If thoughts arise and you get caught into them it's not because of genetics, it's because you think those thoughts are unavoidable. You can stop thinking that right now without any psychedelic.

Edited April 15, 2021 by 4201

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, 4201 said:

How you feel is the Truth  

EDIT: I mean this literally. This whole idea doesn't feel good because it's not true. There is nothing that can rob you of your happiness and "awakenings". If thoughts arise and you get caught into them it's not because of genetics, it's because you think those thoughts are unavoidable. You can stop thinking that right now without any psychedelic.

Again, tell this to a donkey. And see how much difference it makes.

You are overlooking the obvious. And who gives a damn if it gives you hippie feelings or not. Reality is brutal and it does not care about being fair to you.

[4201]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Again, tell this to a donkey. And see how much difference it makes.

You are overlooking the obvious. And who gives a damn if it gives you hippie feelings or not. Reality is brutal and it does not care about being fair to you.

The donkey doesn't need someone to tell him this, he doesn't judge reality as being brutal or unfair. He might have small donkey problems sometimes but I can tell you most of the time he's just vibing. Animals are already enlightened, they don't have a concept of self to misconceive about.

Reality doesn't need to be soft or fair. You just need to accept it as it is no matter what it is and that's all there is to do. To think that it is impossible to accept it is wrong and that's why it feels bad.

Reality doesn't "work in a fair way" because that idea would feel good to me. But I am able to accept the "harshness" of reality (or stop judging it as so) because I'm the one creating those dualities and I can simply stop doing that. You can too obviously.

If you don't use feeling to tell whether you are right or wrong, what do you use? No matter what you come up with as an answer to this question (scientific litterature, hearsey, etc.) How can you say that a particular source of information is true without feeling?

Edited April 15, 2021 by 4201

[Leo Gura]

@4201 Yeah, keep telling yourself that donkeys are awake.

If donkeys are awake then so is your asshole.

[Lyubov]

all concepts of being awake start to go out the window once you are awake paradoxically 

 

[4201]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@4201 Yeah, keep telling yourself that donkeys are awake.

If donkeys are awake then so is your asshole.

Of course my asshole is awake! So are rocks, trees and anything that does not think. Do you think rocks are depressed about life?

Awakening is when you stop seeking. I cannot describe it because it's literally nothing. It's not about maintaining the concept of a "self that is awake". You don't need any brain power for awakening, it's about stopping the neurotic use of that brain. 

When you take psychedelics you just force the dismantling of your thoughts and beliefs. The idea that you can't stop believing without psychedelics is just one more of those beliefs.  

 

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, 4201 said:

You can have a psychedelic trip and resist to it if you want. But that doesn't mean you are resistant, that would be identifying with thought.

I’m using the term “resistant” in a clinical context. We could also use the term “non-responder”.

[Godishere]

@Leo Gura completely agree. I've been watching Leo's videos consistently for 2+ years now trying to wrap my head around this whole spirituality thing. At first I was skeptical at his claims, but open-minded. It wasn't untill I had my first glimpse on psychedlics of course that I realised the validity of what is being said. Maybe my mind has been lubricated enough through his teachings and that the insights were already there and are just now being actialized. 

Good luck to anyone on this journey who's doing it without psychedelics. I didn't want to do them either out of fear, I am blind but now I see. 

[Nemra]

I think there needs to be a How to know if you spiritually gifted video series. 

[Inliytened1]

47 minutes ago, 4201 said:

The idea that you can't stop believing without psychedelics is just one more of those beliefs.  

As is that there is a Leo you're trying to convince ?

[Melissa46]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I'm telling you, the vast majority of spirituality is genetic. Doubt me if you want, but it is what it is.

It's the elephant in the room no teacher dare speak. Yet the facts bear it out. It's not for lack of techniques that creatures lack God-realization. If you are born an ant, you're fucked.

Simple and obvious really. You just don't want to accept it. And none of your rationales or excuses will change this.

But hey, I will not try to debate it or prove it to you. Find out for yourselves.

Leo, would you say you’re genetically endowed to be more spiritually conscious?

Or did you develop it more through experimentation with psychedelics?

Or is it a mixture of both? You probably found what worked for you... and a major driver behind wanting enlightenment was your commitment to the search for truth, purely for it’s own sake... would you call that a spiritually guided, intuitive goal for you from the very beginning?