Godishere

Spiritual teachers with no psychedelic experience

156 posts in this topic

@Godishere I agree that psychedelics can provide a profound glimpse of ultimate reality. I mentioned pivotal spiritual teachers that have extensive experience with psychedelics, and have spoken to these benefits. My point is that all of them say that there is far more to awakening, beyond the momentary glimpse that you get on a trip. True spiritual realization requires work. Momentary seeing is different from perpetually being.

I have never taken psychedelics, but I see the seamlessness and the sameness in all things. How is that possible? Perhaps, trust that the traditional path may not only lead to awakening, but as a side benefit, may more naturally align with your readiness to awaken.


Just because God loves you doesn't mean it is going to shape the cosmos to suit you. God loves you so much that it will shape you to suit the cosmos.

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1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Spirituality is like 95% genetics and 5% techniques. Gurus don't tell you this cause it's bad for business.

If you doubt this, take a look at a donkey. How many spiritual donkeys do you know? It ain't for lack of technique.

Well, following that line of reasoning we may as well say everything is 100% genetics. Let's take major depression as an example - it's believed to be about 50% genetics/50% environment but an argument can be made that if you would have the right genetics, you would not get depressed no matter what, you would physically die from stress before it makes you depressed. There actually are people with childhood trauma, experiences of extreme chronic stress from war... and not a single depression episode in their lives. Similarly, I've heard that some rats they use to study meds on by first inducing depression with chronic high stress are "impossible to drive crazy" some rats/humans just have the right genetics.

If you would have Warren Buffet's gut genetics it wouldn't matter that you eat vegetables, dairy, or junk food. So does it mean your issues are 100% genetics?

A donkey can't do spiritual techniques because he can't learn them because he doesn't have the right genetics to do it in the first place xD

Yet still, a massive chunk of these gurus wouldn't be anywhere close to their spiritual development if not for techniques. I had absolutely zero spiritual experiences until I did my first meditation session and I highly suspect that with my genetics I would never get any without doing meditation 

 

Edited by Enlightenment

"Buddhism is for losers and those who will die one day."

                                                                                            -- Kenneth Folk

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From the perspective of Eastern wisdom, "spiritual genetics" is nothing more than the accumulation of experiences along the journey of many lives. It's just another word for karma.


Just because God loves you doesn't mean it is going to shape the cosmos to suit you. God loves you so much that it will shape you to suit the cosmos.

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1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Spirituality is like 95% genetics and 5% techniques. Gurus don't tell you this cause it's bad for business.

I mean... those numbers aren't too far off when you consider how some people get enlightened after 20000 hours of meditation while some stumble into an awakening during their third meditation attempt :P

Edited by Carl-Richard

Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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1 hour ago, Godishere said:

I am by no means questioning your awakenings, but at the same time to have the experience where your conciousness leaves your body and becomes not localized is so fucking radical and unbelievable it makes you question everything. Where duality between subject and object collapses and you become conscious you are not your body and your entire identity is a fiction. Maybe I lack experience in meditation/ self inquiry but still thinking back, In these states of consciousness it just became so fucking obvious that some of these teachers have not had these states and they felt unachievable by just contemplating and "being".

Consider for a moment the bulk of literature on non-dual mysticism that describes these experiences. Did all of them take psychedelics?

Edited by Carl-Richard

Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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@Inliytened1@ i can't remove the tag i just write my thoughts on the topic. 

Well yes there is no free will. There is suffering that happens to people and some people are able to wake up while some are not. I would say that brains don't play a role (unless a genetic freak) but rather the experiences someone has, the suffering that is experienced, the discovery of the right spiritual teaching at the right time, a willingness to stop the suffering and the basic intelligence to understand a simple teaching. Maybe it has more to do with luck after all that generates the desire and gives the right tools. 

I'm not an Eckhart Tolle funboy i just know that applying his books someone can awaken. Let's leave the deeper stages out, still awakening is powerful. It has to do with returning in the now and eventually living only in the now while deconstructing the ego bit by bit. It's basically meditating and self inquiring always or another way to put it only now from now on. How can someone not awaken when this is understood and there is the desire to awaken. 

It's just developing the ability to go meta on every emotion, thought, belief or ego games returning to the now. The i don't belong to the spiritually gifted people is an identity and a limiting belief that can be let go off by self inquiring. It's just the art of letting go everything and living in the now. This is what i experienced. This can become a way of living. I can't talk about psychedelics because my experience is small but glimpses didn't stay in the now after the high unless they do but this wasn't my experience. If i could trip i would. Maybe in the future. 

I feel the need to write this. I am not awakened. I was 10 years ago for 1 month and it was something unforgettable. My life was complicated that's why it was harder to sustain it. 

However trying to practice this only for one day recently was extremely effective. I do feel that i have a choice in the matter even if that means me finding out again that i am not real. In a sense i know this and just pretend that i don't. 

 

 

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@Leo Gura Even if being awake was as simple as 5000 hours of meditation still 0.0000001 percent would be awake. It is not that you JUST  need godly genes, it is just that the benefits are not quantifiable, measurable and most importantly have a steep curve. Imagine telling someone to meditate for 1000 hours before he started to get noticeable results. Good luck with that.

Btw i am not disagreeing with your claims regarding the importance of genetics. I am just saying that even with the right genetics it would be difficult given the state of our society right now.

Edited by Karmadhi

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20 minutes ago, BlackMaze said:

There is suffering that happens to people and some people are able to wake up while some are not. I would say that brains don't play a role (unless a genetic freak) but rather the experiences someone has, the suffering that is experienced, the discovery of the right spiritual teaching at the right time, a willingness to stop the suffering and the basic intelligence to understand a simple teaching. Maybe it has more to do with luck after all that generates the desire and gives the right tools. 

Yes all of these factor in...but you left out selflessness and honesty.  You can embody these in your life and you will slowly start to align with Truth.  You can practice selflessness for example when your partner wants to see movie "x" but you really wanted to see movie "y"...yet you put your partner first even if there is a little suffering on your part.  That's a small example but it's these little things that count.  Or it could be that you give some of your wealth to a homeless person - forgoing going shopping which was where you were heading.  It's those types of things.  And It's being an honest person as much as you can.  These things are hard and I'm by no means claiming to be a saint but these are things that one can work on to align with Truth.  

 

26 minutes ago, BlackMaze said:

 

It's just developing the ability to go meta on every emotion, thought, belief or ego games returning to the now. 

Yes this definitely imo critical to reducing suffering because the mind is so riddled with self deception.

31 minutes ago, BlackMaze said:

 

 It's basically meditating and self inquiring always or another way to put it only now from now on. How can someone not awaken when this is understood and there is the desire to awaken. 

Yes this too was my path

33 minutes ago, BlackMaze said:

 

 How can someone not awaken when this is understood and there is the desire to awaken. 

Some people do all of the techniques and are very open minded but it still doesn't happen.  Hence the prior factors you mentioned. And when the time is right....

37 minutes ago, BlackMaze said:

However trying to practice this only for one day recently was extremely effective. 

Consider the possibility that you are spiritually gifted.  Not everyone has these types of results (the mystical experience after 2 weeks)


 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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I'm telling you, the vast majority of spirituality is genetic. Doubt me if you want, but it is what it is.

It's the elephant in the room no teacher dare speak. Yet the facts bear it out. It's not for lack of techniques that creatures lack God-realization. If you are born an ant, you're fucked.

Simple and obvious really. You just don't want to accept it. And none of your rationales or excuses will change this.

But hey, I will not try to debate it or prove it to you. Find out for yourselves.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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9 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Yes all of these factor in...but you left out selflessness and honesty.  You can embody these in your life and you will slowly start to align with Truth.  You can practice selflessness for example when your partner wants to see movie "x" but you really wanted to see movie "y"...yet you put your partner first even if there is a little suffering on your part.  That's a small example but it's these little things that count.  Or it could be that you give some of your wealth to a homeless person - forgoing going shopping which was where you were heading.  It's those types of things.  And It's being an honest person as much as you can.  These things are hard and I'm by no means claiming to be a saint but these are things that one can work on to align with Truth.  

@Inliytened1

Yes i was talking about the discovery of why selflessness or honesty are important and to come across the right teachings at the right time. 

I learned only recently about radical honesty and it really helped me to unroot all the bs i created and believed the last 10 years while creating a new worse ego than before. It really is extremely important. 

15 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Some people do all of the techniques and are very open minded but it still doesn't happen.  Hence the prior factors you mentioned. And when the time is right....

Consider the possibility that you are spiritually gifted.  Not everyone has these types of results (the mystical experience after 2 weeks)

Maybe they didn't suffer enough to do the extra step or weren't lucky enough to come across the right teaching at the right time. 

You see my environment was unbearable there was no way i could tolerate any more of this. I even had suicidal thoughts but wasn't so stupid to actually act on them. 

I honestly don't believe that i am more spiritually gifted than any other person. I was 18 at the time and i was self actualizing since i was 14 by reading and applying countless self help books or other books from the library or bought or downloaded with torrents. I was meditating maybe 5 times/month and other than that i was an athlete. Nothing else was special about me. After the month ended my ego came back so strong that i really suffered for years and didn't bother again with self help or spirituality or whatever else until recently because of course my life went downhill once again and i started becoming interested again. 

I really believe it has more to do with life experiences and synchronicities than special talents but the way remains the same. On the other hand i can see why my patents could never awaken though.. But this is just because they are middle-aged and extremely closed minded.. I don't know maybe i am just lucky and i found it out by being unlucky. I do have to put my theory to the test though and see if it works again or not. 

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It's not genetics per se, it's karma. Spiritually gifted people just have good karma, so it's relatively easy for them. The way it plays into genetics is, if you have good karma, you'll get a body that has good genetics.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, vladorion said:

It's not genetics per se, it's karma. Spiritually gifted people just have good karma, so it's relatively easy for them. The way it plays into genetics is, if you have good karma, you'll get a body that has good genetics

So all donkeys got bad karma?

Notice the obvious absurdity of your position.

This is not a software problem. It is a hardware problem. Hardware matters! Imagine that! Crazy!


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

So all donkeys got bad karma?

Notice the obvious absurdity of your position.

This is not a software problem. It is a hardware problem. Hardware matters! Imagine that! Crazy!

Man is a machine! ahaha

I think my ADHD is actually a hyper spiritual sensitivity. Indigo or whatever. I don't like labels but I was thinking I was God or about God since day one. Had some awakenings as a young person. 

Obvisouly I got fucked up along the way, but things are coming together!

 

Also Nietzche's donkey was pretty woke tho 

 

Edited by Thought Art

 "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver

                            ◭"89"

                  

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40 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I'm telling you, the vast majority of spirituality is genetic. Doubt me if you want, but it is what it is.

It's the elephant in the room no teacher dare speak. Yet the facts bear it out. It's not for lack of techniques that creatures lack God-realization. If you are born an ant, you're fucked.

Simple and obvious really. You just don't want to accept it. And none of your rationales or excuses will change this.

But hey, I will not try to debate it or prove it to you. Find out for yourselves.

@Leo Gura Meh. I resisted this idea for a long time, but the latest dives/discoveries showed me that I am probably spiritually gifted. I probably have some particular karma from past lives or whatever. It just flows so naturally and I have no problem valuing the raw pursuit of understanding.

While I look at many other people who even share similar childhood trauma to mine, they just seem impenetrable on living an "unconscious" life and it looks like nothing can stop them/change it. And it even feels "wrong" and you get a huge karmic pushback when you try to "change" them or somehow influence them in that domain and I think it happens primarily because you're trying to limit their unique self-expression in this world. Unique self-expression of being this unconscious thing, either fully unconscious or until a certain specific moment when they themselves will decide to wake up.

It's very painful to have long-term bonds with such people when this happens, I learned this the hard way. They just try to gaslight you into living life in a fully unconscious way, fully expressing yourself in that unconsciousness and I don't even judge here, it's just another way to be, in a sense. Which naturally repels you if you have some degree of wokeness and can hold off their gaslighting

Edited by Hello from Russia

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7 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Man is a machine! ahaha

I think my ADHD is actually a hyper spiritual sensitivity. Indigo or whatever. I don't like labels but I was thinking I was God or about God since day one. Had some awakenings as a young person. 

I started to think of it like this as well.

This ADHD-related stuff is a blessing and a curse at the same time. It makes you hyper curious and creative, yet then it's hard to just get stuck on one idea and get shit done in its paradygm. It makes you explore, explore, explore, never getting stuck at one perspective/idea

I feel like sort of a grumpy/slightly depressed attitude towards life probably works in the same fashion. From very early childhood, I saw the bullshit literally in everything and was constantly thinking how everything is full of shit. That kinda pushed me into a direction to find out what is actually NOT full of shit? What is actually authentic/true? Having grew up in a toxic family environment with lies as a basis of every interaction propagated this desire/passion even more. Not even saying anything about school system and everything related to that

Edited by Hello from Russia

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What seems to be genetic is whether one gets interested and starts pursuing this stuff. What doesn’t seem to be genetic is that serious, rigorous spiritual practice wakes one up. Although yes that too can have a genetic component, but if one truly wants to know God, to know themselves, truly, psychedelics are not needed. In a sense it’s all predetermined and out of our control so it’s all literally genetic/the inextricable whole of reality expressing itself through our singular experience, but from my own experience and communication with others/teachers, if you’re genuinely serious about knowing the truth, it’s available.

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11 minutes ago, Consilience said:

but if one truly wants to know God, to know themselves, truly, psychedelics are not needed.

That is like a bird telling a donkey: "If you truly want to fly, a jetpack is not needed. All you gotta do is flap your arms like me. If you are genuinely serious, it's available."


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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43 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I'm telling you, the vast majority of spirituality is genetic. Doubt me if you want, but it is what it is.

It's the elephant in the room no teacher dare speak. Yet the facts bear it out. It's not for lack of techniques that creatures lack God-realization. If you are born an ant, you're fucked.

Simple and obvious really. You just don't want to accept it. And none of your rationales or excuses will change this.

But hey, I will not try to debate it or prove it to you. Find out for yourselves.

That is precisely why potent Hatha yoga is taught in genuine spiritual foundations, in Hinduism it is the intermediate transmission of energy from our parents through prana which genetically encodes the physical body. Hatha means Sun and Moon, it is a means to reconstruct the physical body and to purify and distance yourself from genetic information, because the source of our physical manifestation ultimately comes from the solar system

In Isha potent Hatha yoga like Surya Kriya and Yogasanas are building blocks and rudimentary steps, but also a means to ride the cycles of nature and rise above any form of energetic influence in family or society and so on. Surya Kriya is described as a means to align your physiology with the sun's cycles, and according to yogic lore this purification carries over from previous lifetimes

All other practices are geared towards realization and there is essentially no limit to the potency of these practices if you look in the right places, Isha being one of them. You would be surprised how these things fit together if you care to try or look into it

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18 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

I started to think of it like this as well.

This ADHD-related stuff is a blessing and a curse at the same time. It makes you hyper curious and creative, yet then it's hard to just get stuck on one idea and get shit done in its paradygm. It makes you explore, explore, explore, never getting stuck at one perspective/idea

I feel like sort of a grumpy/slightly depressed attitude towards life probably works in the same fashion. From very early childhood, I saw the bullshit literally in everything and was constantly thinking how everything is full of shit. That kinda pushed me into a direction to find out what is actually NOT full of shit? What is actually authentic/true? Having grew up in a toxic family environment with lies as a basis of every interaction propagated this desire/passion even more. Not even saying anything about school system and everything related to that

I had a nervous system that was a LIVE wire as a kid. Hyper sensitive. I could not focus in a classroom but had genius level aptitudes.  I can see sounds, and I am a good musician. I seem to be able to integrate things more holistically than anyone I ever met. (I have not met you Leo)  I also was the most athletic person in my school growing up. Idk.

The negative sides of my hyper sensitivity are being worked on through practice and spiritual purification as I mature and develop adequate mental models and life systems. 

Edited by Thought Art

 "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver

                            ◭"89"

                  

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