Company/Spiral Dynamics mismatch

[Nobody_Here]

Hi all, I work for Big Company in Conservative Dystopia. (Nothing against companies or conservatism as they can be great or dysfunctional. Where I live, things are pretty dysfunctional.) 

Big Company is actually prestigious and rather hard to get into. I believe in serendipity, so I figure Higher Self has a reason why I'm here even though I feel I'm a total mismatch. Big Company is Blue-Orange with a tinge of Green (Spiral Dynamics.) I'm into Yellow, a bit of Turquoise. So -- I should get fired, right? No, Big Company has moved me into its even more prestigious R&D department and is using my story as a recruitment tool. I even got asked to apply for a well-paying engineering job I'm far from qualified for last week. (I turned that down diplomatically.) I realize this all may come off as bragging, but my health is starting to suffer because of the values mismatch, despite my efforts to take control of my health and well-being. I don't want what's happening to destroy my health. At the same time, I don't see a way out.

The issue is money and resources. I make a lot of money on paper, but most of it is going to catch up on my retirement (I'm 39 and behind) or pay off debts. I work in IT, so the obvious next step in my career is getting a software engineering degree where I could make six figures anywhere (and move the heck out of here.) Since I am already paying off one big student loan, the only reasonable way to get another degree is to get the company to reimburse me for my education. 

I tell my wonderful Green+ therapist my woes, and she tells me that I would run into problems everywhere I go, and the people I have issues with are everywhere also. She's right. I have worked for over 20 years to improve myself, so it makes sense I'm at where I'm at. However, it's isolating. I would love to get married and have kids (assuming biological ones are even possible now at my age as a female(!)), but I can't find anyone who shares my values or viewpoints. (Closest I can get is Green, which is nice but just not far enough.) 

I need a change in viewpoint. Friends would be nice, too. I do have a few good friends, but I have to tiptoe around some issues with them. I would like to meet someone where we can discuss systems and holism without them looking at me like a freak. I don't know what to do. Does anyone have any words of encouragement for me? This may be unrealistic, as the average board member around here seems to be around 20-30. But hey, you could be me in 20 years. Any advice for potentially your future self? 

Edited March 28, 2021 by Nobody_Here
changed word selection

[PepperBlossoms]

@Nobody_Here  Wow.  Advice to potential future self from younger self- 

1 hour ago, Nobody_Here said:

Hi all, I work for Evil Company in Conservative Dystopia. (Nothing against companies or conservatism as they can be great or dysfunctional. Where I live, things are pretty dysfunctional.) 

Evil Company is actually prestigious and rather hard to get into.

Younger self says to go to a different company that does not promote evil.  You only live once.  What is evil about it and why am I saying that it is evil?  Is there anything my future self can do to turn that company from an evil company to a company of love or is that not going to happen?  Am I contributing to this evil?

1 hour ago, Nobody_Here said:

The issue is money and resources. I make a lot of money on paper, but most of it is going to catch up on my retirement (I'm 39 and behind) or pay off debts. I work in IT, so the obvious next step in my career is getting a software engineering degree where I could make six figures anywhere (and move the heck out of here.) Since I am already paying off one big student loan, the only reasonable way to get another degree is to get the company to reimburse me for my education. 

My future self may want to consider ways to save up money faster or earn money faster; my young self will tend to wish that my future self will have wished that I wasn't still in debt at this age.

1 hour ago, Nobody_Here said:

I tell my wonderful Green+ therapist my woes, and she tells me that I would run into problems everywhere I go, and the people I have issues with are everywhere also. She's right. I have worked for over 20 years to improve myself, so it makes sense I'm at where I'm at. However, it's isolating. I would love to get married and have kids (assuming biological ones are even possible now at my age as a female(!)), but I can't find anyone who shares my values or viewpoints. (Closest I can get is Green, which is nice but just not far enough.) 

My younger self wants my future self to remember that problems are everywhere if we want to see problems.  

The clock is ticking.  Maybe start making radical life changes now??

Maybe think more deeply - what is my older self saying as the problem/issue?  If none of my peers are improving themselves, where can I find the peers who are?

If my older self wants to get married and have kids - will have to make that a priority over everything else - will have to give a little on the values.  I will have to come up with why I want to get married and have kids.  There's also adoption and no marriage - which in that case - longer time limit.

1 hour ago, Nobody_Here said:

I need a change in viewpoint. Friends would be nice, too. I do have a few good friends, but I have to tiptoe around some issues with them. I would like to meet someone where we can discuss systems and holism without them looking at me like a freak. I don't know what to do. Does anyone have any words of encouragement for me? This may be unrealistic, as the average board member around here seems to be around 20-30. But hey, you could be me in 20 years. Any advice for potentially your future self? 

Change in viewpoint - take psycadelics.  Get new job.  Get new city.  Do new activities.  Get new anything/everything.

Younger self says to do something to find people who are working on themselves - need to go to a career with people who really care about learning/exploring reality - research, education, science, engineering, art, medicine, comedy

My younger self says quit job immediately even if that means no pay and take the time off to work on things - then get self to a point that self is in better position and then self can better achieve what self wants. (would be optimal but not always an option)

Younger self slightly wishes older self had accepted the engineering job if self wanted to just try it out even if self was not qualified- none of us are qualified absolutely - we are all faking it and learning everyday (unless that was evil too).  

Could drop values and just go for someone that is good enough even if not a fair match - could maybe help them get to yellow.

Younger self will tell older self to ask to not be used as promotion material if it is for evil promotion.

Yes could be more yellows in software engineering - especially if the software that is being worked on is for yellow purposes.

Younger self says to get new wardrobe??.. younger self says to ask if any of the guys self has met with in the past self could try to make it work with..

Younger self says drop the idea of the company being prestigious if it is promoting evil and no good.

Younger self says that friends have always been hard to make and hard to have close relationships with aside from the ones that self is able to explore reality with.

Younger self says to look for dating apps?

Younger self says that software engineering can be tough to get employment in and that the city makes a big difference on getting hired.  Seattle is the best city in the USA (not sure where you are from) that has software engineering positions open - could look into those companies to see if self wants to work for any of those..  

Self also says to be lazy and see if self can do a different job without having to go back to school - or go to a coding bootcamp that is only a few months.

Younger self says oh man and good luck and that self hopes self finds people.

Younger self says that conservatives and liberals can be funny to listen to.

Younger self says she really only has 2 people to explore reality with at the fullest - self and bf - all it takes is 1 person to explore reality with - then the others who aren't interested just get put aside.

[AuthenticSelf]

Debt is slavery, do whatever it takes to pay it off as soon as possible - go full minimalist, take the higher paying position, 2nd job, work extra if there's a bonus, save every penny.

When your expenses are low, you have options, and can keep trying them for your happiness. Whether it's taking a job at a better yellowish company for less money - which there are now a good amount of (and you can use your corpo experience to get this job, and to help them), or doing your own business, or moving cities.

Friends with similar viewpoints will appear as you get on your path and do the activities that help you be authentic - this one you just have to trust the universe on, and be okay with long stretches of solitude, which can also be beautiful.

[PepperBlossoms]

@Nobody_Here Evil can be a relative term.  What is evil to one may not be evil to another.

If it is evil by stage green/yellow standards, most of the people who work there are probably low consciousness or have to numb/blind themselves to what they are contributing.

Yes I can see that money can be a survival need and some of the evil companies pay more than others - I can see that the higher conscious/aware someone is, the less likely they will be able to tolerate or agree to working for evil.

There are civil/mechanical/electrical engineering firms that do work in green energy, sustainability, addressing climate change, water/wastewater/stormwater/roadway infrastructure.  There are firms that work to promote learning (and infrastructure) in undeveloped countries or just learning in general - schools.  Research groups - public or private - will try to explore reality.

It can be hard to keep up working on something that is taking advantage of others.  I can see that that can be painful to have to do if one cares about others and basically requires people to tell themselves a story that it is okay to do what they are doing.

Could try to raise the consciousness of coworkers?  Would be an interesting experience.  

Hmm - wonder how one would get their own international firm to stop the evil and try to do good instead - may require law changes at government level as well as publicly known about the evilness (to get the company to stop doing that that way)

The company may be stage red/orange and needs to become green/yellow (from perspective of green/orange) - although technically no absolute "need" to change as reality is just reality - despite however painful things are/seem.

That's nice that your ex liked the philosophical stuff.  Those are really cool conversations.  Philosophical buddies are the best.

Not sure of the situation and if the entire company knows about the evil or just the IT since they tend to get to talk to everyone and may know more things - if the entire company knew, would they allow that to keep on happening?

Yeah there can be lots of blue/orange engineering companies but there will also be those that are green/yellow too that pay just as much.  I'd say progressive CEOs make better companies than conservative ones do - as the CEO will tend to set the company culture/goals (from viewpoint of a progressive).

Yeah those power outages and deaths in Texas were pretty upsetting - so sad.  Yeah the new clothes thing was kinda a dumb idea but is sometimes refreshing.  I've been wearing the same clothes for days straight since I don't have to see people with covid.

I guess one thing I would recommend before putting in all the effort to do software engineering would be to ask -why am I doing this?  What are all my problems and what are my options/choices?  Why software engineering?  Although yes will tend to pay well and can make some pretty cool stuff doing that so sounds cool - will also tend to have pretty smart coworkers - may suggest to pick a company that isn't doing evil for the next job :).

Sorry about the situation.   Sounds like you are already trying to work on solutions!

Would be curious to know how the prestigious international engineering firm is evil - but do to privacy - probably don't share.  I can make guesses - oil/gas collection/pipelines; some sort of AI or drone; using underpaid labor; taking and underpaying for resources from poor countries; bombs/fighter jets/guns/missiles/war; surveillance that infringes on privacy; cutting down rainforest; producing unhealthy food/chemicals; slaughterhouses; lobbying for conservative ideals; building private prisons; building military structures; some sort of slavery involvement- - some companies have high ethics policies - this company may not care about ethics - - if the future is stage green/yellow - the company may not last or be sustainable in its present form

Can look at the company and learn from it - was it created to do evil in the first place, is it not aware of its evil impacts, or did it have to resort to evil to survive, etc. 

That's cool that your counselor/therapist is "stage green".

[PepperBlossoms]

@Nobody_Here I thought I may add - Thinking some more regarding the evil engineering company - Engineering has a code of ethics that engineers have to follow to keep their licensure.

If you are out of Texas... and want to file a complaint - https://pels.texas.gov/complaint.htm

Texas Board of Professional Engineers Rules - https://pels.texas.gov/downloads/lawrules.pdf  (Other states will have their own or will use a national standard - NSPE - National Society of Professional Engineers).

Page 83 of TBPE rules - §137.55 ENGINEERS SHALL PROTECT THE PUBLIC (a) Engineers shall be entrusted to protect the health, safety, property, and welfare of the public in the practice of their profession

". When, in an engineer’s judgment, any risk to the public remains unresolved, that engineer shall report any fraud, gross negligence, incompetence, misconduct, unethical or illegal conduct to the board or to proper civil or criminal authorities."

I think one issue is that many "horrible" things are still considered "legal" - can see if the things that this company is doing is a violation of any of the ethics rules and then you have the entire company at risk for losing its engineering status/license to operate (unless this is one of the branches of engineering that gets to skip out on engineering licenses)  - but will also depend on the perspective of the TBPE board or whoever the reviewer board is and how conservative/liberal they are.

Could argue that the engineering boards that know about the evilness and don't do anything about it are evil themselves - despite having ethics rules...

[Topspin715]

I think you seem to be very intellectually in yellow but have some lower unmet needs.  It seems like you want to work for a prestigious company and achieve worldly success, have more basic financial needs, and higher moral needs that make you feel uncomfortable for working for your prestigious company.

Your health is suffering, I've been in that situation which is why I ended my career in finance this year.  I was living out of alignment with my needs and values and the conflicting forces were causing a lot of stress.  And it put so much stress on my nervous system that I got monstrously sick with a COVID infection last March from which I have not yet fully recovered.  When you have many competing interests pulling at you, it's going to cause real problems for you stress-wise unless you very consciously rank your preferences so you aren't compromises parts of you without realizing it.

It's seems like you're intellectually in yellow, probably a hyper intellectual person esp if you work in IT, but have orange financial and emotional (success oriented) needs, with green moral needs that make you feel guilty about working for a largely amoral big company.  Figure out your most basic and most significant needs and work your way up from there to reprioritize how you want to live your life. 

It's super unpleasant to not be fully integrated, esp if you're intellectually much higher than other needs, but impt to figure out where you are in what ways.  If you need money badly, you may want to compromise some of your higher moral principles, but you don't have to do anything immoral yourself. 

 

Edited March 31, 2021 by Topspin715