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Abdelghafar

The Boundaries of Models

7 posts in this topic

Hi guys,

I witnessed Leo say before, "The better the model, the bigger the problem". So, I wanted to create this topic for the reason of deeply discussing the upsides and the downsides of personality tests and models in general.

My name is Abdelghafar, I'm 23 years old and I live in Egypt. I recently graduated from my 4-year college and I wanted to recount my experience with the personality models during that time and during my Job Hunting Journey.

Since I had started university, a friend of mine introduced me to the MBTI model and I had learned about my personality type: INTJ.

I started feeling so special and I became so attached to the mbti at the time, that I started twisting reality according to models like, The Five Factor Model, the MBTI, etc. I became obsessed with typing people around me and judging them by their four-letter-type and other attributes.

Moreover, during my job search, I found out that companies recruit their potential employees by analyzing factors such as extroversion and introversion. Even though, I have an introverted nature, I posed as an extrovert in those tests fearing that I'd get rejected.

I noticed that there was a major systemic issue with bending people to such narratives because, for example, introverts can develop high communication skills and extroverts can develop deep introspection.

In this quest, I commenced following online communities and resources such as Psychology Junkie and Psychology Youtubers.

I observed as those typology experts said how each and everyone of the 16 personalities lives their lives, what they love, what they hate, what they should do in certain situations, and so on.

I said to myself, "What's the benefits of these models? and at what point does this become toxic and ideological?"

It's true, these models possess great advantages of getting us to better understand ourselves and consider the existence and experience of others.

Nevertheless, they can also be manipulative to the point where one can be trapped in its bubble and live their lives bound by its limitations. Hence, I started following Leo on the Forum and I saw him write something that hugely resonated with my take on models.2021_02_13_01.41.36-1.jpg

I also found this new HBO Documentary Trailer about how such models are used at work and during social life.

The trailer is a bit dramatic and overly-emphasizing the disadvantages of those models, but that's understandable due to marketing purposes. It's clear to me that only demonizing the models is myopic, but being iconoclastically critical about it is important to wake up and realize Holism (Watch Leo's recent video).

So, what's your personal experience and thoughts on this subject? What do you think are the advantages and disadvantages of models in general?

Have a great day.

Edited by Abdelghafar

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Models are fine, but they are inherently conceptual, and that tells you something.

To the extent they can help you understand your human identity, great. In that regard, my advice is to stay within your lane. Don't take a job requiring exquisite extraversion, if you are an introvert.

Ultimately though, no model is perfect. Trust your heart, more than any model. If your instinct moves you in a direction, go with it, over what the "experts" say is your ideal profession.

Do what brings you joy and fulfillment.

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11 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Models are fine, but they are inherently conceptual, and that tells you something.

To the extent they can help you understand your human identity, great. In that regard, my advice is to stay within your lane. Don't take a job requiring exquisite extraversion, if you are an introvert.

Ultimately though, no model is perfect. Trust your heart, more than any model. If your instinct moves you in a direction, go with it, over what the "experts" say is your ideal profession.

Do what brings you joy and fulfillment.

Interesting take. Thank you.

Edited by Abdelghafar

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@Abdelghafar I also fell into the MBTI rabbit hole like you. I discovered it a few years ago and found it to be very enlightening and explanatory for why everyone around me felt alien. There were many months where I'd think and talk about it a lot.

However for some time I knew the model was stupid to be taken very autistically, criticising other people who did that, yet I kept doing it myself. 

Before every MBTI convo I had, I would say "well this is all rather stupid but I'll say this anyway". Eventually I got bored of saying anything about it, and prefacing anything. I left all MBTI circles I was in back in August 2020. It was like a cancer being removed from the mind since I don't think about it much. 

In the back of my mind there are emotional impressions linked with memory/concepts of MBTI. In a sense, I am quite impressionable. If something leaves an impression on me, that sticks to my memory. Once I get a certain taste, my brain automatically pattern seeks for that taste, and I impose my memory over what's actual.

And that applies to MBTI, where the different types and the different cognitive functions are like archetypes or broad categories. When one starts to see MBTI patterns everywhere, that's a pretty interesting phenomena. I think looking at that obsession phenomena more consciously is an opportunity for learning which perhaps I haven't fully done.

But in a sense I realised recently I shouldn't hate my mind for doing that pattern seeking or being obsessed with certain images, feelings and states, and just appreciate it for what it is. And if anything it allows me to get into a hypnotic zone. 

--
If you're still in the rabbit hole, my advice is to just unplug. I felt great from unplugging. Don't talk about MBTI, don't go into stupid explanations about it. 

When the mind becomes obsessed with certain things in a negative way, its like being submerged in a pool of wet mud. And I seriously hate that feeling of being bogged down, stuck in a web, trapped in a prison of the stale. 

Edited by lmfao

Hark ye yet again — the little lower layer. All visible objects, man, are but as pasteboard masks. But in each event — in the living act, the undoubted deed — there, some unknown but still reasoning thing puts forth the mouldings of its features from behind the unreasoning mask. If man will strike, strike through the mask! How can the prisoner reach outside except by thrusting through the wall? To me, the white whale is that wall, shoved near to me. Sometimes I think there's naught beyond. But 'tis enough

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"When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail."

;)


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

"When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail."

;)

Man, that's a beautiful analogy. Many thanks. :)

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