"Illusory" sense of intelligence and knowledge on psychedelics

[Jodo]

I think this forum is as good as any place to ask that question. 

In some very deep states / trances / psychedelic trips you can get very "smart" - everything is known to you, you UNDERSTAND it all, you ARE everything, some say - they are GOD, etc. You are above the "game", you see through, there are no problems, nothing to worry about, just love and the ineffable (which is known while the experience lasts) infinite. 

But when we return we don't keep that. We don't remain super smart, we cannot just learn any language we want in an instant, we don't suddenly start playing instruments at high level or develop AI code for Deep Mind, etc. and we even forget most of the feelings and knowledge we had during the trip. 

Yet we KNEW while in the trip and maybe even managed to keep a bit of that insight or at least the FEELING of it. Maybe the latter is confusing - because I see people claiming all sorts of things - but they are still just "ordinary" people, even if they had an insight beyond the conceptual mind. Yet they still write on forums, do the same old jobs, possess the same skills as before... maybe a little bit changes and the FEELING, but not the actual content of the mind/body's skills/content. 

As I see it - if you have such an experience - it can amplify what is already there from the consensus reality - if you are a chemist you might discover some new compound, if you are physicist, you might develop a new breakthrough theory, if you are an accomplished composer you might write a specially inspiring composition, etc., but if you can't achieve skills you didn't work on in the ordinary reality, even if it feels you did while in the trip. 
 
Also the sense of being omniscient or even exceptionally intelligent or insightful seems a bit illusory - it works while in the experience, you  know things, you understand reality, but when you come back, you have this vague sense of oneness, the void - when you read Zen ideas you know what they meant, but I can't choose to suddenly speak Mandarin or Arabic or run 100m in 8 sec. or play the violin like Paganini. A lot of people also met alien entities in NN-DMT trances (myself included), but we only got a "hello, we exist" or some very vague and abstract ideas - no one came back with a blueprint for some alien technology, or learned something they couldn't have known themselves, etc. 

What are your thoughts on the realness of those "intelligence" increasing experiences and how do you keep more of it after the psychedelic session? 

I only managed to enhance some things in my field, I got better in some interesting ways at my work - which is great and I am thankful for it, I also lost any fear of death, but I can't keep the knowledge I supposedly have while in the "enlightened" state. I can't influence the fabric of reality much more than before.  (I am OK with this, just wonder how others do and how to tell delusions from the actual working stuff) 



  

[Bazooka Jesus]

Hehehe... well, I guess this is the reason why so many enlightened 'masters' advocate against the use of psychedelics.

Here's the thing: If you have these kinds of insights without first having managed to let go of the ego's frantic & neurotic need to have 'great insights'  and reach 'super human levels of understanding', then the ego will immediately co-opt those insights after the trip and say "Ooooh sweet, I think I just reached the next level in my ongoing treasure hunt for everlasting glory and greatness! Let's see, what can I do now with this? Come on, walking on water should be a piece of cake now, right?!"

And thus, the seeking continues...

[AdamR95]

30 minutes ago, Jodo said:

I think this forum is as good as any place to ask that question. 

In some very deep states / trances / psychedelic trips you can get very "smart" - everything is known to you, you UNDERSTAND it all, you ARE everything, some say - they are GOD, etc. You are above the "game", you see through, there are no problems, nothing to worry about, just love and the ineffable (which is known while the experience lasts) infinite. 

But when we return we don't keep that. We don't remain super smart, we cannot just learn any language we want in an instant, we don't suddenly start playing instruments at high level or develop AI code for Deep Mind, etc. and we even forget most of the feelings and knowledge we had during the trip. 

Yet we KNEW while in the trip and maybe even managed to keep a bit of that insight or at least the FEELING of it. Maybe the latter is confusing - because I see people claiming all sorts of things - but they are still just "ordinary" people, even if they had an insight beyond the conceptual mind. Yet they still write on forums, do the same old jobs, possess the same skills as before... maybe a little bit changes and the FEELING, but not the actual content of the mind/body's skills/content. 

As I see it - if you have such an experience - it can amplify what is already there from the consensus reality - if you are a chemist you might discover some new compound, if you are physicist, you might develop a new breakthrough theory, if you are an accomplished composer you might write a specially inspiring composition, etc., but if you can't achieve skills you didn't work on in the ordinary reality, even if it feels you did while in the trip. 
 
Also the sense of being omniscient or even exceptionally intelligent or insightful seems a bit illusory - it works while in the experience, you  know things, you understand reality, but when you come back, you have this vague sense of oneness, the void - when you read Zen ideas you know what they meant, but I can't choose to suddenly speak Mandarin or Arabic or run 100m in 8 sec. or play the violin like Paganini. A lot of people also met alien entities in NN-DMT trances (myself included), but we only got a "hello, we exist" or some very vague and abstract ideas - no one came back with a blueprint for some alien technology, or learned something they couldn't have known themselves, etc. 

What are your thoughts on the realness of those "intelligence" increasing experiences and how do you keep more of it after the psychedelic session? 

I only managed to enhance some things in my field, I got better in some interesting ways at my work - which is great and I am thankful for it, I also lost any fear of death, but I can't keep the knowledge I supposedly have while in the "enlightened" state. I can't influence the fabric of reality much more than before.  (I am OK with this, just wonder how others do and how to tell delusions from the actual working stuff) 



  

One thing i learned from psychadelics is that knowing something is only a feeling and in fact i know nothing. My intuition leads me throught life and i have no idea where it is, where it leads me.

[Vibroverse]

What we call knowledge is the evolution of thought. What we learn through psychedelics, or meditation or like any other practice that raise your vibration, is the mechanism of existence. What is reality and how thoughts turn to things. 

[VeganAwake]

Psychedelics seem to shake up the mind's typical way of thinking and perceiving.

But placing meaning purpose and value on these experiences are just the mind's way of making sense out of everything and always for survival purposes. ❤

 

[Leo Gura]

@Jodo The only problem is you expect too much too easy.

It is a miracle psychedelics work at all. Yet people whine about not being able to keep it.

If you could keep a 5-MeO-DMT breakthrough, you would be a walking God.

[Forestluv]

@Jodo This perspective seems hyper personal to me. It’s like asking “Why can’t I enter a psychedelic realm and bring back some goodies for myself?”. For me, development of abilities has been a secondary outcome. The primary outcomes are self dissolution, mind expansion and clarity. 

[cetus]

12 hours ago, Jodo said:

we cannot just learn any language we want in an instant, we don't suddenly start playing instruments at high level or develop

 Beethoven didn't write his 5th symphony with the harmonica in mind. 

[mmKay]

@Leo Gura you could start an anal 5 meo dmt softgell company. 

Wanna experience god real quick and easy? Pop this pill really fast. But from the rear 

[Jodo]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Jodo The only problem is you expect too much too easy.

It is a miracle psychedelics work at all. Yet people whine about not being able to keep it.

If you could keep a 5-MeO-DMT breakthrough, you would be a walking God.

That's what I mean... Even if we are... we are not. While we are alive, embodied, filtered out - we are part of "God" or call this Everything whatever label you want, but we are not IT. We don't possess its "powers"... it's like a molecule becoming aware that it's a molecule maybe? Even if we are really... we still exist separately with some kind of reason, agenda to do here... whatever it is...

Don't get me completely wrong - I am also amazed that psychedelics work at all like they do... That there are certain compunds that in microscopic amounts react in such a way with our nervous system... This is astonishing... And the complexity of it all...

I just wonder how to keep more of it "real"... To use it in everyday life a bit more. I guess I wish to bring more back from the hyperspace... for regular others who don't partake in this orgy of the mind. You know, it is fascinating that there are also things called art, culture, technology that people explore and construct. There seems to be this whole layer of intricately simulated reality that is somehow superimposed on all this... There is obviously some need or idea to have these biological systems evolving, procreating... I don't see a way to reconcile all of this just yet.

Some good ideas thrown around here, too. Also some weird ones. But hey - that's this fucked up reality.



 

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Jodo said:

That's what I mean... Even if we are... we are not. While we are alive, embodied, filtered out - we are part of "God" or call this Everything whatever label you want, but we are not IT. We don't possess its "powers"... it's like a molecule becoming aware that it's a molecule maybe? Even if we are really... we still exist separately with some kind of reason, agenda to do here... whatever it is...

That's why spiritual practices are required and enlightenment is required.

Taking a psychedelic does not make you enlightened. It gives you a peak at what you can become with hardcore spiritual practice.

You got the peak, but you don't want to do any hardcore spiritual practice. That's your problem. You are expecting psychedelics to be a magic pill.

[Nahm]

@Bazooka Jesus

Hey! Nobody cares bout the truth. Knock that off! 

@Jodo

‘Go to’ the self you speak of. Actually find it. 

[Jodo]

43 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Bazooka Jesus

Hey! Nobody cares bout the truth. Knock that off! 

@Jodo

‘Go to’ the self you speak of. Actually find it. 

So back to "Who am I?" ?

 

[Nahm]

@Jodo

Awareness of intelligence & knowledge. 

[Bazooka Jesus]

6 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Bazooka Jesus

Hey! Nobody cares bout the truth. Knock that off! 

Why, I care about the truth... what can I say, it's a dirty job but someone's gotta do it.