Are You Enlightened? An Honest Self Exam

[zeroISinfinity]

Well kinda of a provide ya'll evidence that free will is a thing. Also a choice thingy too. 

[zeroISinfinity]

Intuition and all other stuff you deep down know and feel that are true. So just relax. 

[Tim R]

14 minutes ago, Valwyndir said:

In fact, total indifference is the closest you can get to the opposite of love. 

@Valwyndir I don't understand. Could you elaborate?

[zeroISinfinity]

So Leo at that time had that understanding but as you can see he developed and improved further more. You don't follow blindly, you do your own work if you are interested in Truth. Only you will awaken Leo is not gonna do it for you. 

So Leo might be wrong, me whatever. Most mistakes you can make is in relative knowledge, Absolute is same. 

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by zeroISinfinity

[Surfingthewave]

@Valwyndir

I feel you have gone down the rabbit hole of total gobbledegook. 

I have absolutely no idea what you are expressing here, perhaps you just want lots of attention/aimless discussion?

Some of these non duality threads are like strange loops, go round and round. 

 

[Valwyndir]

3 hours ago, Tim R said:

@Valwyndir I don't understand. Could you elaborate?

The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference. The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference. And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.

-Ellie Wiesel

The opposite of reality isn't non-existence. It's indifference. 

Think about the infinite intelligence that designed this reality. 

To create such a reality must be done with the utmost interest, enthusiasm, and passion. 

Of course, I'm not referring to human qualities but I'm pointing to existential nature. 

And of course existential nature is beyond words, but since we use words like "love" and "intelligence" to point to its "qualities,"

I'll use words that I believe best point to the opposite of those "qualities."

On a deeper level, the universe neither has nor has not any of these qualities. 

With that being said, God is love. 

Examine the care that went into creating reality. Examine the power and energy required to manifest infinite intelligence. 

Observe how  all is love including hate. Recognize how evil is required for good to exist. 

Realize that every minutia of reality has its purpose and was meticulously designed to be exactly how it is. 

What's the one trait that this "creator" could not possibly possess and still manifest this reality of love into being?

Indifference.

For if the creator was indifferent, there would be no creation. 

Of course, this is impossible since the creator is its creation.

Absolute indifference could never exist beyond concept. 

For if it did, there would be no existence. 

[Valwyndir]

2 hours ago, Surfingthewave said:

@Valwyndir

I feel you have gone down the rabbit hole of total gobbledegook. 

I have absolutely no idea what you are expressing here, perhaps you just want lots of attention/aimless discussion?

Some of these non duality threads are like strange loops, go round and round. 

 

Don't trap yourself into believing that confusing material equates to aimless material. 

Of course these non-duality threads are like strange loops, because that's what reality is haha!

"Non-duality" points to reality, and therefore "non-duality" points to a strange loop. 

Seek the truth in that which you perceive as falsity and watch those dualities collapse.  

[Surfingthewave]

6 hours ago, Valwyndir said:

Don't trap yourself into believing that confusing material equates to aimless material. 

Of course these non-duality threads are like strange loops, because that's what reality is haha!

 

Back at you! 

Good luck my friend namaste ? 

[The Buddha]

Are u open to the fact that there could be even more profound insights? Every time we have an insight we feel like this is truly it. However if anything I learnt is that there is always more, no end no begining. So we see it in all reality, at least we say and talk so, but we don't see it in our awakenings. Yes sure that this is very deep for you but for sure there are infinite other approaches, infinite other ways of saying the same, infinite other ways of understanding. I feel like it is just more distraction, u know. It is just more bs to not really go to that. Do we even truly want? Because that may imply our death. We don't know shit about reality, truth or conciousness; and that is a hard pill to swallow to all of u here. But to know first u have to not know. There is much more than non-duality, truth, conciousness and love, I have no proofs but no doubts. Because, if those realizations and understanding are Absolute, then for sure there is infinite degrees of more of them. It's just the insight I had today, we love so much to say that we know or to think that we know, or that this is like this or like that, or whatever... We are always missing the point, that I still have no idea what is it but I surely know this is not it, at least not all. Like a diamond this is only a reflection, that is why it feels so real because that reflection is truly the diamond but there are infinite reflections. Maybe there is infinite understanding or whatever but everyone is just seeing reflections, all teachers, gurus, all of you guys... There is no message that I want to send or make u understand, is just appreciate how complex all this is. If u say different I truly don't believe you because u have attached to one reflection, yes sure it is the diamond it is true but yet... But yet we don't understand anything, our perspective is always so narrow and conditioned, yet I'm open that it may not be like that, but the fact is that if my insights about this change, all what they are pointing is that this is in fact genuine. What just always leaves me where I am, puzzled about existence.

[xxxx]

14 hours ago, Valwyndir said:

The bottom line is that no matter how enlightened you get, you'll still have what I call "preferences."

I do not deny the existence of preferences. Because, preference is the very nature of being - but within these, there are further dualities, with boundaries, however imaginary, that can be ascertained to a degree, according to the levels of your perception --- and these are pushing you towards something that you are inadvertently attached to. The key point here being - comprehending the nature of the intricate dualities of the concept of preference. 

14 hours ago, Valwyndir said:

Total indifference would destroy any meaning in life leading to a bland, zombielike existence.  

An 'indifferent existence' is an oxymoron. It cannot, and will never exist together. Existence can never be indifferent - it can masquerade as that, in an illusory form, hidden underneath some sort of deeper, and most probably, egoic manifestation - giving an idea that you are being indifferent - where in reality, you just aren't, and never can. 

As you said, total indifference cannot exist beyond concept, and therefore, is not a pre-requisite to this discussion, altogether. 

14 hours ago, Valwyndir said:

All choice is an illusion. This video explains it well: 

Did watch the video, and it does stress upon the point that I tried to put forth, ab initio -

Leo talks about something called the 'Emergent Phenomenon' - that the randomness coincides with the non-randomness, too - there is a complex order to it, and variations do tend to have a very real effect. 

The point with the free will debate is not that people become hopeless (hint: egoic love for self, and the consequent loss of it masquerading as indifference), but that people comprehend the nature of ego and Nothingness, in the first place. This was one of Leo's first few videos on such topics, and what he is trying to say, in facile terms, is that it's all God - and that free will requires the acceptance and realization that it is all Oneness - and there's nothing quite outside you - for Everything is you, and you are a product and the manufacturer of it. That, an 'I' is not solely responsible for all that happens to 'themselves', because in the greater picture, 'I' work in tandem with the vastness, unbeknownst to my egoic self that strives for rigorous separation.

He talks about these 37 trillion cells working for us, and not the egoic 'I' - and that is what it is - there is something working, that is not so arbitrary. We cannot shun it by saying that nothing makes sense, because quite evidently, there is some sort of meaning that we are able to give. Moreover, one cannot give meaning to things that do not make sense - the meaning and the cohesiveness of a certain thing have an inter-dependent relationship.

He gives the example of being seated in a car, and realizing that you have no control since you are not the one steering the vehicle towards its destination - the idea behind this is that while you may realize that your illusion of control has been broken, it doesn't completely erase the fact that you are in a car, and are actually going somewhere. Therefore, understanding the concept of free will, in my opinion, means that while I may be walking the path, it is not the 'I' that is walking the path --- but anyway, both of it does mean that the path does exist, and is being travelled upon. 

As Leo put it, it is the mind that constructs preferences and thereafter makes the decisions - and each decision has a consequence. With the example of Google that he gave - if just because Google considers itself an input, no matter how deceived it is, it will never cease being an output - it is a something, and the something has real functions and is striving in some regard, and will behave in a particular, predictable fashion if certain buttons are pushed. 

The free will debate just juggles around the concepts of ego vs surrender - but it cannot deny the existence of things and or the functions attached to them - that is, once you have realized that ego is at play, and that it likes to take all the 'credit' - you, as an enlightened being, will try to not include it in the actual play. 

.

Preferences do have mechanical elements to it - if one needs results, they need to train and try - and that's a very coherent process of this reality, as well, that would be absurd to deny. The results are the attachment. And if something is mechanical, it works by cultivating 'practical' relationships that need to be honored for its effective completion, without which the goal will never be reached. To be honest, we are all seeking something, and that, by its very nature gives it a mechanical touch. 

The very concept that surrendering gives the feeling of 'power', is somewhere, in itself, a subtle sort of attachment. Now that I think of it, haha, existence is nothing but a series of infinite attachments, glued together with love or whatever we may call it - that we can just accept through becoming enlightened through empathy; nonetheless, the lack of judgement, coming back to your original question, cannot happen in this finite, human lifetime, because judgement is the very core of your existence. The path is the judgement - that requires attachment for its effective, mechanical completion - with its own set of consequences based on the levels of 'personal' conduciveness. 

The path has a lot of choices, which you are not making, but You are making - that cannot be completely controlled, but regulated, for components of it are mechanical, and in the human context, limited. 

 

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by xxxx

[Applegarden]

17 hours ago, This said:

There is no yoy!

But there is This!! I will edit this now!

[Nahm]

11 hours ago, Valwyndir said:

Seek the truth in that which you perceive as falsity and watch those dualities collapse.  

[James123]

On 2/7/2021 at 11:43 PM, Valwyndir said:

Enlightenment is the ultimate Perspective of perspectives. It's a meta perspective.  

It's the effortless fluidity between perspectives. 

No perspective is "correct." For a perspective to be "correct" would imply other perspectives are "wrong."

You'll find that all perspectives dependently arise with each other. 

Not a single minutia of reality could exist without everything else. This is the essence of what non-duality points to.

Enlightenment is seeing past the fabrication of perspective itself. 

Enlightenment is to see the dependence of everything on everything else. 

It would be unwise to say any perspective is "wrong" when your "right" perspective couldn't exist without that "wrong" perspective.

That "wrong" perspective is actually part of your "right" perspective. 

To say a perspective is "wrong" is to say your "right" perspective is "wrong."

 

[traveler]

On 8.2.2021 at 5:55 PM, Valwyndir said:

Haha this is just another perspective ?

Even the perspective of no perspective is still a perspective. 

Offering perspectives is all we can do with language. 

All that we can understand is perspectives, "what is" is not a perspective.

[Intraplanetary]

@The Buddha

amazing ❤️

bookmarked.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Intraplanetary

[Nahm]

@The Buddha

Nice. Brought the question to mind, what is the difference between being awake & being lost in thinking? Hoping this overwhelming laughter finds you as well. 

[Valwyndir]

8 hours ago, traveler said:

All that we can understand is perspectives, "what is" is not a perspective.

True.

"What is" on the deepest level is neither a perspective nor not a perspective.

With that being said, consider this...

Saying that "what is" is not a perspective is a perspective haha. 

Even though you are "what is," you're also observing "what is" through the lens of a character. 

If there's a character, there's perspective.

If you dismiss the character, you're dismissing a part (which is not separate from the whole) of "what is."

[The Buddha]

@Nahm

@Intraplanetary

❤️❤️❤️