What are some of men's struggles that women don't understand?

[Chew211]

@Surfingthewave

I didn't mean to imply that the OP was posting about winning. He was talking about how to create a space for male instincts, like aggression. I responded to that in my first reply on this thread.

The rules are indeed different-- and on top of that they are changing fast because of technology. 

The solution is two part. First is to learn universals that won't change. For me this is Lacanian psychoanalysis. For Emerald it's Jungian psychoanalysis. There's no one way of going about this, obviously. For me Lacanian psychoanalysis gives me a good framework as to how desire works. 

Second part is to see what's happening in thr world at present, and go about trial and error. 

Playing the game as far as I am concerned is dealing with physical reality. Ideally I'd like to create a self sustaining infrastructure to be as distant from the economy as possible-- but the intial Capital required to do that requires me to take part in the very system I'm trying to escape. Which is fine-- things build off of each other. 

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"media/education/systems/capitalism/dating"

The Althusserian term for these are ideological state apparatuses. 

Recommended reading: https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/althusser/1970/ideology.htm

^ he advocates for revolution, which I think is impractical, but his analysis on ISAs are spot on.

And their purpose is to reproduce the means of production by reproducing the relations of production. Obviously it doesn't care about consciousness. 

The current economy benefits by having so many men have issues with dating. 

Both the Red Pill and mainstream Blue Pill are both ISAs. 

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Just cause someone did something bad doesn't mean that a particular thing they said was wrong. 

I came across lot of great insights reading works of people who did morally questionable things. 

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Disclaimer, my views aren't representative of the guys here that are complaining. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Chew211

[Emerald]

3 minutes ago, Chew211 said:

The current economy benefits by having so many men have issues with dating. 

I would bet that this is the root of why Red Pill ideologies (and other ideologies that simultaneously give empathy to men's emotions while also confirming their worst fears) proliferate so much. 

Now, men's issues on their own create an emotional dilemma for men. And with emotional dilemmas that can create the tendency to tongue one's own wounds and create distorted narratives that makes sense of the dilemma. So, things do spread that way. And of course there are uniquely male issues in dating/relationships, paternity, and the way men are viewed by society in general.

But also, and I think more importantly, there are people who profit off of that emotional dilemma who can come in and sell men who are dealing with those emotional dilemmas all kinds of solutions to that perceived dilemma.

When there's money to be made, there will be campaigns in place to drum up the insecurities that lead to purchasing behavior. And I would guess that a lot of influencers in the Red Pill community and PUA community are grifters who seek to make money by confirming men's worst fears and selling them the solution to those fears.

And this is a real problem in marketing. Basically, if you can sell a bleak worldview to people, a person will pay you any amount of money to relieve them of the ails of the worldview you've sold them.

The same is true for how women have historically been marketed to... though it has gotten a bit better recently as many women that I've seen in comments sections will respond angrily to any ad that implies that a woman's value is in how a man views her. But this was always an advertising mainstay, to create insecurities in women about their own level of attractiveness and to sell them cosmetic, hygiene, and fashion products to alleviate their insecurities. 

But this type of advertising to women has been discovered as toxic in a more collective way. So, a lot of recent advertising for women (or at least many of the ads that I've seen) has diverse body types and pro-self-esteem messaging. And those ad videos always get a ton of compliments from women for that reason. And tons of women will be like, "Buying this for the ad alone." 

The same cannot be said to be true about advertising that plays off men's insecurities.

[Surfingthewave]

@Chew211

I interpreted the OP about man's obsession with winning, that's the point of a fight, right? 

You seem to be a bit bogged down in theoretical concepts, it's fine but be aware this can hinder progress at times. I disagree actually, the Universals can change, that change comes through enlightenment. 

We do have to use the system to break away from it and go our own way like like Ghandi, Luther King, Virginia Woolf, Dali.

@Emerald

I think you're absolutely right about marketing /advertising buying into women and men's struggles/weaknesses/self esteem difficulties therefore perpetuating the problem.The most recent thing I've seen is mental health and self improvement. The constant bombardment of this makes us continually feel we need to change ourselves.

In dating many feel it's a struggle so go into it, thinking it's a struggle so it therefore it will be. Rather than working on enjoying life and things that make you feel good (raising your vibration to attract what you want). 

The solution, be very aware of it. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Surfingthewave

[Chew211]

@Surfingthewave

I'm not "bogged down" by theory. It's called being educated. They're complex models for understanding the world-- much like Spiral Dynamics, Spiritual Doctrines, etc. 

We're all talking theory here, I'm just bringing in more sophisticated theory.

In this particular case, I can see the whole problems people face with dating from an economic perspective-- a perspective no one touches upon, and instead deal with more superficial details which are an effect of the economy. 

Universals don't change. If they change they are particulars. Enlightenment let's you have a deep understanding of the Universals because the ego (a particular manifesting) is dissolved. 

Ghandhi and Martin Luther King (or rather their movements) did in fact "use" the system. They created change in their material realities and thus had to interact with it. 

 

The only time theory hinders someone is if they are all theory and no practice. All the theory I've learned has given me a new way of looking at the world which is helpful. Stage Yellow is about aquiring many perspectives, and that's where I'm at in regards to my study of theory. 

[Surfingthewave]

@Chew211

The great part about theory is learning about it and then transcending it.

Theorising is an important part of this work as you say but will it get you a date? 

It comes down to understanding and listening to the person your with, (same sex or opposite sex) and not letting your ego or concepts get in the way. 

Although you are listening, you appear fairly certain about your way of thinking, this may be a common problem. 

Radical open-mindedness is what society needs, particularly when it comes to relationships. I feel the new norm is about throwing the dating rule book out the window and just connecting with others. Over analysis is a symptom of the problem. 

The OP was about men expressing themselves and I think the underlying issue here is that self expression has got lost in all the game changes we have seen in the past 10 or so years. Particularly when it comes to dating/relationships. 

Edited February 12, 2021 by Surfingthewave

[Chew211]

@Surfingthewave

I do agree that theory must be transcended. The more and higher quality theory to transcend the better. Much like how renunciation only means something if there is something to renounce. 

Will theorizing get you a date? The theorizing itself won't, but having a better understanding of the world let's you take better action, and orient yourself against the world world better.

Also, as a side bonus, on my most recent dates I have been talking to them about theory, and they were interested in it. It's good conversation. 

I am certain about my way of thinking because I am also certain that I don't know much-- I'm always learning, and I do indeed have a lot more to learn, so much in fact I can't learn it within my lifetime perhaps. But that doesn't mean I need to lack conviction when I express my thoughts. 

I also agree that radical open mindedness is need. Studying theory opens one's mind. 

For me there overanalysis is when thinking hinders connection. When you're with another person, yes, you want to be present and connecting with them, not trying to filter the interaction through the framework of theory. Theory is a map, a map you can improve on through study of theory and experience-- but when you're on the territory, you should be present. 

Did you read the Quora answer linked in the OP? It's not about dating, which is why he was curious as to why it got moved to this subforum. 

[Surfingthewave]

@Chew211 Yes but people can get lost looking at the map rather than seeing what's in front of them  (I know I did) for example connecting with someone right there in moment.

No I didn't see that re the OP but I guess the principles apply to dating as I suppose a lot of people struggle in this area. 

You're right, conviction is important when expressing opinion. As is non conviction or as you say the "don't know - I'm here to learn". If you say can you help me with this nine times out of 10 someone will. Vulnerability = strength. Perhaps people don't want to appear vulnerable or in the not knowing that's why a lot of ghosting happens? 

We seem to have lost the OP but nice chatting with you and good luck on the path

? 

[Chew211]

@Surfingthewave

Thanks for the chat.

Let's hope that all the cringe men on this forum can get over themselves. 

[Dancer]

Thank you @Chew211 @Emerald @Surfingthewave

Today I am activating myself and my son in the local football club. I have a lot to give there, and it's an excellent healthy outlet to put my energy into that many can benefit from. I am excited about it.

[Axiomatic]

women who get all pissy because men want to figure out how to be better at attracting women. Get over yourself 

[Epikur]