Husseinisdoingfine

Are Elon Musk's ideas here unhealthy?

128 posts in this topic

5 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@Vrubel  

But that's not called philanthropy. 

What!? I never said he was a philanthropist or a "humanitarian capitalist".

You have a big heart but you are being very judgemental and too idealistic to understand current economic and sustainability trends and where Elon Musk fits in. 

Edited by Vrubel

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42 minutes ago, DoubleYou said:

The question is, is it really possible to literally win capitalism, by being the richest guy on the planet, while also saving the planet at the same time?

Personally, I think the two are polar opposites. You don't just end up on top of the food chain by caring about your surroundings. The system isn't designed like that. It's survival. To win capitalism, you have to put profit above all else, which is literally the opposite of saving the planet, or putting all else first. And then we look at those people to save us.

This is the problem with modern philanthropy. It's only the greediest, most ambitious ones that suddenly find themselves in places of power to produce actual lasting change. And they won't... Time and time again. This is not a coincidence. You can't just shift from egoic greed to selflessness overnight. Yet that's exactly what we expect from people like Bezos or Elon Musk. But they're businessmen, and businessmen first. Otherwise they wouldn't have made it this far. Any other way, the system would have obliterated them.

I think looking at these people as the saviours of humanity is a big mistake. The same way looking at presidents to fix all of our problems is. Saving humanity, or rather moving humanity forward, takes heart and actual care. Which takes time, effort and spiritual growth. Lots of it. By all of us. Not just that one rich guy. If we as a collective want to see a more unified planet, we have to stop putting all of our faith in individuals. Sure, they can help. But not by themselves.

I'm sorry but your ideas of a 'saving the planet' are completely unrealistic. Saving the planet will take an extraordinary level of selfishness and egotism from those involved. This is not some quick change that can be sorted out by a small group of mindful environmentalists. It requires massive action, huge amounts of money, resources, radical creativity and business strategy. No government is going to put the necessary money and resources into this because its against their self agenda. Thats why all of our environmental efforts have been so dog shit and have taken years if not decades to complete. Only raw selfishness can save the planet - thats what you're not getting.

 

 

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Just now, Vrubel said:

What!? I never said he was a philanthropist or a "humanitarian capitalist".

You have a big heart but you are being very judgemental and too idealistic to understand current economic and sustainability trends and where Elon Musk fits is in. 

But isn't that's how he is advertised all the time. 

Whenever I hear about him it's always this person who is helping the world with his product and I didn't know the price of Tesla. 

But I checked the price for the first time and it's unbelievable. People who help the world don't sell their product at luxury price. 

Clearly he wants his car to be considered a luxury item and he wants his brand to be a luxury brand. 

 


INTP loner....... Nothing else but to enjoy  the rest of my dream. Love it. 

Preety preety

 

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1 minute ago, Preety_India said:

But isn't that's how he is advertised all the time. 

Whenever I hear about him it's always this person who is helping the world with his product and I didn't know the price of Tesla. 

But I checked the price for the first time and it's unbelievable. People who help the world don't sell their product at luxury price. 

Clearly he wants his car to be considered a luxury item and he wants his brand to be a luxury brand. 

 

@Preety_India

No, he doesn't. he started with a 200k car. And worked his way up to 30 K currently. And I am sure it will go even more down from there. 

Proved the sustainability of making Electric Cars that don't look like toys. Others will copy that.

Gave access to his patents to other companies "as we are all in the same boat"(his words).

 

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5 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

As long as people aren't buying his cars, I won't think his endeavors are helpful to the environment. 

Right now he is just a capitalist. 

I understand that the car costs 30 grand. 

But 99 grand is ridiculous. 

I'm sorry but no socialist agenda, at least in today's world, is going to sort the environmental problem.

$99k is a lot of money for sure. But its very common for companies to produce a small volume expensive product initially. This then allows them to produce a high volume cheaper product. 

Anyway, a lot of people have a lot of money. Think how many luxury cars are sold every year. 10s of millions. 

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Just now, captainamerica said:

@Preety_India

No, he doesn't. he started with a 200k car. And worked his way up to 30 K currently. And I am sure it will go even more down from there. 

Proved the sustainability of making Electric Cars that don't look like toys. Others will copy that.

Gave access to his patents to other companies "as we are all in the same boat"(his words).

 

Good to know this. 

 


INTP loner....... Nothing else but to enjoy  the rest of my dream. Love it. 

Preety preety

 

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@Preety_India  Sure some people idealize Musk, I am not one of them but I can see his role in the bigger picture. What he is doing is called real impact. What you are doing is bleeding heart wishful thinking.

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4 minutes ago, Space said:

$99k is a lot of money for sure. But its very common for companies to produce a small volume expensive product initially. This then allows them to produce a high volume cheaper product. 

I'm aware of this. It's a common strategy that start ups use. 

Well, he is a smart guy. 

I don't know why Leo called him stupid. 

 


INTP loner....... Nothing else but to enjoy  the rest of my dream. Love it. 

Preety preety

 

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3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You can find interviews of him where he talks about how miserable his life actually is.

Really? Can someone link them?


''To be happy we must not be too concerned with others''.

Albert Camus

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2 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

I'm aware of this. It's a common strategy that start ups use. 

Well, he is a smart guy. 

I don't know why Leo called him stupid. 

 

I think because many people get ideological about Musk as a stage orange hero. So Leo point's out his shortcomings and ignorance to break down that ideology, so to speak. But obviously judging everybody for their shortcoming and ignorance is a very unhealthy way to go through life.

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Just now, Vrubel said:

But obviously judging everybody for their shortcoming and ignorance is a very unhealthy way to go through life.

Bro, that's a golden line. 🏆🏆

 


INTP loner....... Nothing else but to enjoy  the rest of my dream. Love it. 

Preety preety

 

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30 minutes ago, Space said:

I'm sorry but your ideas of a 'saving the planet' are completely unrealistic. Saving the planet will take an extraordinary level of selfishness and egotism from those involved. This is not some quick change that can be sorted out by a small group of mindful environmentalists. It requires massive action, huge amounts of money, resources, radical creativity and business strategy. No government is going to put the necessary money and resources into this because its against their self agenda. Thats why all of our environmental efforts have been so dog shit and have taken years if not decades to complete. Only raw selfishness can save the planet - thats what you're not getting.

Raw selfishness is what got us here in the first place. 

Environmental efforts have only been dog shit because of how corporations have been continuously and knowingly standing in the way of all of it. Why? Selfish needs. The survival of the corporation above anything else. 

How is that mentality going to fix things that need this high level of cooperation? For long amounts of time. It won't.

At some level, there will need to be sacrifice. Corporations need to be able to see that infinite profit is not sustainable, for anyone. And no CEO is going to want to do this, ever, unless the collective wakes up to itself and starts demanding it. 

30 minutes ago, Space said:

It requires massive action, huge amounts of money, resources, radical creativity and business strategy. 

I don't see how selflessness would stand in the way of any of that? It would only complement it. Radically.
All action has intention. And if the intention is to improve life on this planet, how would selfishness serve that? It doesn't care about that at all. It cares only about itself. Its own survival.

If anything, we haven't been able to do any of these things literally because businesses don't have any reason to do so. Profit has always been the main driving force, not the wellbeing of the people, nor the state of the environment. So that's entirely expected. And in a way we can't really blame anyone for that. But at some point we're going to have to take a good look at why all this selfishness and corporate greed has been able to run the show for so long. Maybe it's because that is how the system was designed to begin with and we are now seeing how that effects us in the long term.

I don't necessarily have all the answers or the specifics as to what a better system should look like, but from a simple, holistic point of view it's clear to me that we as human beings have to transcend our selfish needs and start to start to act on behalf of the whole. And that is something all of us have to do. Not just those in power. And while that might sound unrealistic right now, you'd be surprised by the momentum that generates.

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9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You have no clue how 80 hrs/wk of coding will destroy your life, even if you enjoy coding.

Game developers routinely burn out and leave the industry within 5 years because of this bullshit mindset.

This is hilarious because that's not too far from what I'm doing. 

Does using the body cause harm to the body? Will you lose your arms if you cut too much logs?

Programming is just using the body as well. No harm to the body is doing by doing that. The killer is the anxiety and stress. The killer is being convinced that you need to work or some bullshit and use that to push yourself past "what feels good". But if you are healthy and follow feeling, it may happen at some point in your life that it feels good to work a lot, if that's what is appropriate.

Yes you can both be passionate about a thing and be stressed about it but that's just a form of blockage that should be released. I don't advocate for mindless working or ignoring feeling in any way. But if feeling tells you to work 80h/week, nothing's gonna stop you and it's not the number that's gonna kill you.

From the moment the dude at walmart dislikes his job, that's a form of stress. If the dude's 100% happy with his life and job, then I don't think there's a problem.

Edited by 4201

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7 hours ago, DoubleYou said:

The question is, is it really possible to literally win capitalism, by being the richest guy on the planet, while also saving the planet at the same time?

Personally, I think the two are polar opposites. You don't just end up on top of the food chain by caring about your surroundings. The system isn't designed like that. It's survival. To win capitalism, you have to put profit above all else, which is literally the opposite of saving the planet, or putting all else first. And then we look at those people to save us.

This is the problem with modern philanthropy. It's only the greediest, most ambitious ones that suddenly find themselves in places of power to produce actual lasting change. And they won't... Time and time again. This is not a coincidence. You can't just shift from egoic greed to selflessness overnight. Yet that's exactly what we expect from people like Bezos or Elon Musk. But they're businessmen, and businessmen first. Otherwise they wouldn't have made it this far. Any other way, the system would have obliterated them.

I think looking at these people as the saviours of humanity is a big mistake. The same way looking at presidents to fix all of our problems is. Saving humanity, or rather moving humanity forward, takes heart and actual care. Which takes time, effort and spiritual growth. Lots of it. By all of us. Not just that one rich guy. If we as a collective want to see a more unified planet, we have to stop putting all of our faith in individuals. Sure, they can help. But not by themselves.

@DoubleYou I am sorry to be so direct, man, but your way of thinking is a total bs

I don't personally worship Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos and the like people, but how can you deny that the businesses of these people didn't create a massive value to society? You are basically saying that these things are shit:
Electric cars (Tesla), hassle-free sending money online (Paypal), personal computers (Apple & Microsoft), swiss army tool such as mobile phone (Apple), the gigantic infrastructure for ordering stuff online supper hassle-free (Amazon). The social networks where we can actually talk sh*t without even leaving the house (Facebook/Instagram). The network where we can learn 10000s of skills without leaving the house (Youtube)

Are you really saying that all these companies were all greed-base? Are you saying they didn't change the world at all for the better? Are you saying that they were all egoic? 

For sure, these innovations and novelties created their own subsequent problems, which I don't deny, but how can you really say that these were not moving humanity forward?

This stage green idea is so naive, thinking that if you put all else first everyone will win. Everyone will not win. It takes all kinds of resources to be creative and generate all this stuff. If you give away 99-100% of your resources, how can you really innovate?

What we really need is win win win, win for you (because you need resources to), win for the customer, and win for the people that surround this whole ecosystem (Planet, colleagues, government, ordinary people). Your lose win win attitude doesn't really work in the really world.

Edited by Hello from Russia

"In time you will learn that intuition is a higher form of knowledge and your feelings are in fact your sharpest tool."

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"When the sane man desires money, he really desires the many things that money will purchase. Money is the symbol of nearly everything that is necessary for man’s well-being and happiness. With it he opens the door to all sorts of opportunities, and without it he can accomplish practically nothing. Money is the tool with which man may carve many beautiful things, and without the aid of which he is helpless. Money is but the concentrated essence of things desired, created and established by society in its present stage of development. There have been times in which there was no money— there may be times coming in which the race will have passed beyond the need of money as the symbol of exchange and possession—but, be this as it may, the fact remains that now, right here in the beginning of the Twentieth Century, there is nothing that is so necessary for man’s well-being and content as this much-abused money. Remember this, first, last and all the time, that when I say, “man needs money,” I mean that he needs the many things that money will purchase for him. And for one to decry the desire for money is for him to decry the desire for nearly all the good and desirable things of life. As a recent writer has said: “Unless a man acquires money, then shall he not eat; nor be clothed; nor have shelter; nor books; nor music; nor anything else that makes life worth living for one who thinks and feels.” The people who decry the desire for money are generally those who have found themselves lacking in the qualities that tend to attract money; or else those who are in possession of money that has been inherited, or is otherwise acquired without the labor, excitement or satisfaction of having been made by themselves. With the first mentioned class it is a case of “sour grapes”; with the second it is financial dyspepsia, which has left the victim devoid of a normal appetite.

In spite of the loud cries and protests of our long-haired brothers and short-haired sisters—so-called “reformers”—money is still necessary in order that man may have the necessities of life, as well as a few luxuries. We cannot live on beautiful theories, but must have bread and butter, and potatoes, and sometimes a piece of cake or pie—and it takes money to get them. Money means freedom, independence, liberty, and the ability to do great good, as well as great evil. It means the opportunity to carry out great plans and to fulfill great ideals. It means the filling in of those mental pictures that we have sketched out in our minds. It means the chance of materializing those airy “Castles in Spain” that we have dwelt upon in moments of hopeful ecstasy. Ah, yes, money is the wizard, able and willing to work wonders. It is, indeed, the genie who can and will do its master’s bidding.

I hold that in the present stage of evolution of man, money is to mankind what air, water, sunshine and mother-earth are to the plant—it is nourishment. And, as in the plant, the desire for nourishment is a natural and worthy instinct, so is the desire for this financial nourishment in man a perfectly natural and worthy instinct—it is the working of the same natural law. And, mark you this, that as the desire of the plant is a natural indication of the existence of the nourishment-need, so is this desire in the breast of man a certain indication of the possibility of its satisfaction and attainment, if natural laws are but followed. Nature is no mocker—it causes no desire to spring up in a living thing, unless it also endows that living thing with the faculties and powers to attain that which it craves. A realization of this great natural law will do many of my readers much good just now.

But note this, also. Nature does not encourage the hoarding up of anything for the mere sake of acquisition. It punishes this error severely. The Law of Use underlies all of nature’s instinctive cravings. It desires that the living thing shall draw to itself the nourishment and material it needs, in order to use it. And this desire for money on the part of man is governed by this same law—the Law of Use. Nature wishes you to desire money—to attract it to you—to possess and acquire it—and lastly, and most important of all, to use it. By using money, and keeping it working and in action, you will fall in line with the workings of this great Law of Use. By falling in with this Law, you work in harmony with the great natural forces and purposes. You bring yourself into harmony with the Cosmic Plan, instead of opposing it, and when man so brings himself into harmony with the natural forces around him, he reduces friction and receives the reward that comes to all living things that work with, instead of against, the LAW. So, friends, in closing this chapter, I would say to you: Be not afraid, but assert the desirability of the possession and use of money; recognize that it is your natural right to possess it, just as it is the natural right of the plant to sunshine, light and air. And do more than this—it belongs to you—demand it of the LAW, just as does the plant. Cease all this talk of the beauty of poverty, and the joy of the humble— you know that in the bottom of your heart you do not mean a word of it. You know that you are just saying these things because you are afraid that you cannot have that which you want. Throw off this mask of hypocrisy, and self-deception, and stand out in the open like a man, throwing your head up and looking the world in the face, saying, “Yes, I do desire Money; I want it and I want it earnestly, and through the LAW I demand it as my rightful inheritance—and I’m going to get it, beginning right now!” Throw off the shackles of the slave, and assert your freedom. Assert your own mastery of that which is your own. Don’t be afraid to assert what you want, and to see it clearly ahead of you—then march straight onward to the mark, without turning to the right, or to the left, without fear or favor, without flinching or fouling—straight to the mark which is called Financial Success! For in that goal, alone, may you find that for which you seek—that which your heart desires."

From Law of Financial Success. Hope it helps you guys. :x

Also, Socialism is bullshit. We are realistically at least 300- 500 years away from socialism. More than 70 percent of the things that make my daily life easier (OS, Cheap computers, Processors like intel, 4G etc.) is due to capitalism. We need drastic changes in policy sure. But capitalism is a boon. Blaming it is like blaming nuclear power. It depends on the usage if you bomb someone with it or produce energy. Blaming it directly leads to errors.

Instead of blaming capitalism why not start targeting policies or the creation of new ones. Maybe the change will be more rapid that way. Just because wall street is full of assholes doesn't mean ambitious or creative people everywhere are crooks looking to harming the population. 

Edited by captainamerica

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Musk to me represents just about everything wrong with stage Orange.

I'm not saying he's a bad guy or has bad intentions. He's passionate, he's charismatic. But he's in his head.

He's obsessed with science, rationality, technology, work, etc.

This is not how you save the planet.

If anything, this is the mindset that needs to be transcended in order for healing to occur.


Loving a new world into being.

Energy healing, music making, tree hugging, sacred being.

YouTube channel: https://youtu.be/k_gzVJIeTlI

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37 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

"When the sane man desires money, he really desires the many things that money will purchase. Money is the symbol of nearly everything that is necessary for man’s well-being and happiness. With it he opens the door to all sorts of opportunities, and without it he can accomplish practically nothing. Money is the tool with which man may carve many beautiful things, and without the aid of which he is helpless. Money is but the concentrated essence of things desired, created and established by society in its present stage of development. There have been times in which there was no money— there may be times coming in which the race will have passed beyond the need of money as the symbol of exchange and possession—but, be this as it may, the fact remains that now, right here in the beginning of the Twentieth Century, there is nothing that is so necessary for man’s well-being and content as this much-abused money. Remember this, first, last and all the time, that when I say, “man needs money,” I mean that he needs the many things that money will purchase for him. And for one to decry the desire for money is for him to decry the desire for nearly all the good and desirable things of life. As a recent writer has said: “Unless a man acquires money, then shall he not eat; nor be clothed; nor have shelter; nor books; nor music; nor anything else that makes life worth living for one who thinks and feels.” The people who decry the desire for money are generally those who have found themselves lacking in the qualities that tend to attract money; or else those who are in possession of money that has been inherited, or is otherwise acquired without the labor, excitement or satisfaction of having been made by themselves. With the first mentioned class it is a case of “sour grapes”; with the second it is financial dyspepsia, which has left the victim devoid of a normal appetite.

In spite of the loud cries and protests of our long-haired brothers and short-haired sisters—so-called “reformers”—money is still necessary in order that man may have the necessities of life, as well as a few luxuries. We cannot live on beautiful theories, but must have bread and butter, and The Law of Financial Success 10 potatoes, and sometimes a piece of cake or pie—and it takes money to get them. Money means freedom, independence, liberty, and the ability to do great good, as well as great evil. It means the opportunity to carry out great plans and to fulfill great ideals. It means the filling in of those mental pictures that we have sketched out in our minds. It means the chance of materializing those airy “Castles in Spain” that we have dwelt upon in moments of hopeful ecstasy. Ah, yes, money is the wizard, able and willing to work wonders. It is, indeed, the genie who can and will do its master’s bidding.

I hold that in the present stage of evolution of man, money is to mankind what air, water, sunshine and mother-earth are to the plant—it is nourishment. And, as in the plant, the desire for nourishment is a natural and worthy instinct, so is the desire for this financial nourishment in man a perfectly natural and worthy instinct—it is the working of the same natural law. And, mark you this, that as the desire of the plant is a natural indication of the existence of the nourishment-need, so is this desire in the breast of man a certain indication of the possibility of its satisfaction and attainment, if natural laws are but followed. Nature is no mocker—it causes no desire to spring up in a living thing, unless it also endows that living thing with the faculties and powers to attain that which it craves. A realization of this great natural law will do many of my readers much good just now.

But note this, also. Nature does not encourage the hoarding up of anything for the mere sake of acquisition. It punishes this error severely. The Law of Use underlies all of nature’s instinctive cravings. It desires that the living thing shall draw to itself the nourishment and material it needs, in order to use it. And this desire for money on the part of man is governed by this same law—the Law of Use. Nature wishes you to desire money—to attract it to you—to possess and acquire it—and lastly, and most important of all, to use it. By using money, and keeping it working and in action, you will fall in line with the workings of this great Law of Use. By falling in with this Law, you work in harmony with the great natural forces and purposes. You bring yourself into harmony with the Cosmic Plan, instead of opposing it, and when man so brings himself into harmony with the natural forces around him, he reduces friction and receives the reward that comes to all living things that work with, instead of against, the LAW. So, friends, in closing this chapter, I would say to you: Be not afraid, but assert the desirability of the possession and use of money; recognize that it is your natural right to possess it, just as it is the natural right of the plant to sunshine, light and air. And do more than this—it belongs to you—demand it of the LAW, just as does the plant. Cease all this talk of the beauty of poverty, and the joy of the humble— you know that in the bottom of your heart you do not mean a word of it. You know that you are just saying these things because you are afraid that you cannot have that which you want. Throw off this mask of hypocrisy, and self-deception, and stand out in the open like a man, throwing your head up and looking the world in the face, saying, “Yes, I do desire Money; I want it and I want it earnestly, and through the LAW I demand it as my rightful inheritance—and I’m going to get it, beginning right now!” Throw off the shackles of the slave, and assert your freedom. Assert your own mastery of that which is your own. Don’t be afraid to assert what you want, and to see it clearly ahead of you—then march straight onward to the mark, without turning to the right, or to the left, without fear or favor, without flinching or fouling—straight to the mark which is called Financial Success! For in that goal, alone, may you find that for which you seek—that which your heart desires."

From Law of Financial Success. Hope it helps you guys. :x

Also, Socialism is bullshit. We are realistically at least 300- 500 years away from socialism. More than 70 percent of the things that make my daily life easier (OS, Cheap computers, Processors like intel, 4G etc.) is due to capitalism. We need drastic changes in policy sure. But capitalism is a boon. Blaming it is like blaming nuclear power. It depends on the usage if you bomb someone with it or produce energy. Blaming it directly leads to errors.

Instead of blaming capitalism why not start targeting policies or the creation of new ones. Maybe the change will be more rapid that way. Just because wall street is full of assholes doesn't mean ambitious or creative people everywhere are crooks looking to harming the population. 

Great post! 

And, it's so true, a lot of people seem to think Bezos, Musk etc just have a bank account with $100 Bn lying around, but they are worth that due to their % share in X company, and most money they do have spare will likely be invested in other projects, investments, etc. 

And, this isn't a bad thing, because investing in companies, assets and projects you believe in is what helps us grow, companies need that money to pursue their next objective, projects need that money to fulfil their goals. 

Another issue Is that when you give say $100,000 dollars each to a group of people, their beliefs & understanding of money is what will make some of those recipients eventual millionaires & others broke, quickly. 

Education on the monetary system, and changing our subconscious beliefs about money, and start seeing it for what it really is- energy- is how you start your journey to abundance. Because, if you believe money is the root of all evil, the cause of all sins etc, no matter how much you get gifted you'd eventual spew it all up the walls. 

Yes, there's systematic errors to why the rich get richer, and poor get poorer, but there's also much more obvious reasons. 

The rich educate their family, children, friends etc on how to make money work for them, how to grow money. 

The poor have no such knowledge. I grew up in a pretty 'working class' area, not surrounded by money, I also play Cricket which is a 'posh' sport, it's easy to see why some people are rich & why some others just by how they speak of money, and how they speak of themselves. 

So, I'm not saying we live in a fair & equal system, we clearly don't but, for a lot of people, if they understood money & changed their negative beliefs around it, they'd see a lot more coming their way, and keep a lot more!


'One is always in the absolute state, knowingly or unknowingly for that is all there is.' Francis Lucille. 

'Peace and Happiness are inherent in Consciousness.' Rupert Spira 

“Your own Self-Realization is the greatest service you can render the world.” Ramana Maharshi

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I'm so dumb. I should just listen to Leo. He is right.

 


INTP loner....... Nothing else but to enjoy  the rest of my dream. Love it. 

Preety preety

 

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