How do I get relativism to stop making me anxious?

[trenton]

I have been dealing with this problem for a long time sense before discovering this website.  I am still struggling to end the fear surrounding the implications that my entire worldview and sense of reality is maintained through self deception.  It means I lie more than I consciously comprehend. 

This problem of self deception has bothered me since I was eight when I tried to lie to myself by white washing my memories so I could accept a false version of myself.  This means that I don't really love myself at all.  I then struggled to love myself, but ended up being very anxious the whole time.  It lead to racing thoughts, fear of my own thoughts, and self hatred. 

One problem I ran into is that I said that I would not let myself lie to myself because I was afraid of what would be exposed if I did lie to myself.  My life becomes a challenge to convince myself that I am not self deceived in order to avoid confronting my biggest fear.  My entire worldview is a defense mechanism.

This fear comes up when I contemplate ideology.  I see Christian vs. Muslims, science vs. Religion, democrats vs. Republicans, and so forth.  People hate each other and end up killing each other.  I was drawn to religion a lot as a child.  I couldn't tell what drew me towards it, but I didn't like the prospects of locking myself in a narrow worldview without the freedom to explore many perspectives until I die while putting on an act of being religious while hating people who make me doubt my decisions.

I am now 22 and I have still yet to resolve this intense fear.  I think my life could be amazing if I could resolve this issue somehow.  I think I do pretty good at not hating other people.  The problem is that I direct it inwards when I detect a quality about myself which I constantly struggle to change.

In this thread I hope I can clarify what is the exact quality about myself I want to change, and what do I want to change it to?

My main question is how do I stop any inner turmoil associated with relativism and all implications which follow relativism?

[Mu_]

This sounds like a lot to unpack here and a complicated one to work out in a forum post.

Lets start with relativism.  How do you understand relativism and what role are you playing in this?

[BipolarGrowth]

You talk about relativism being a problem, but you can also use it to your advantage with this problem. First, realize that everyone participates in self-deception to some degree. You seem to be looking at lying or lying to yourself as some kind of objective sin. That’s not very relativist my friend. What makes lying bad? What makes less self-deception good? How does the person who is aware of the issue of self-deception become free from it? They probably don’t to be honest. I’d say anyone thinking they are free from self-deception have deceived themselves to even be able to reach that conclusion. At the end of the day, what’s the point in beating yourself up for not following some list of virtues? No one’s perfect. Just live your life man. You’re doing your best with what you’ve been given to work with, just like everyone else. I could go on. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by BipolarGrowth

[trenton]

@BipolarGrowth that is pretty accurate and helpful.  You are bringing up the lie that I should not lie.  The goal of this lie is to convince me that I am not lying.  If I am not lying, then I am not self deceived, therefore I can trust myself.

Less self deception is useful for understanding what reality is actually like, as a lie would be an inaccurate representation of reality.  

I don't know any human being who was ever free from self deception entirely.  I would probably have to die.  I don't want to beat myself up for being alive.

[BipolarGrowth]

 

34 minutes ago, trenton said:

@BipolarGrowth that is pretty accurate and helpful.  You are bringing up the lie that I should not lie.  The goal of this lie is to convince me that I am not lying.  If I am not lying, then I am not self deceived, therefore I can trust myself.

Less self deception is useful for understanding what reality is actually like, as a lie would be an inaccurate representation of reality.  

I don't know any human being who was ever free from self deception entirely.  I would probably have to die.  I don't want to beat myself up for being alive.

@trenton Keep in mind that all of this desire to not self-deceive is coming from your ego’s desire to improve or “level up” in some way so it can feel better about itself. The only solution to this problem for you or really anyone is to just spend time doing consciousness work that works to remove beliefs and judgments by becoming more present. When you are fully present and have dropped all beliefs and models for understanding the world, you come to a state that is sort of inoculated against self-deception. If you are existing free from concepts entirely, you cannot be deceived. As long as you live in a world of thought judgments based in the past or future, there will always be the possibility of self-deception. 
 

Leo’s last YouTube video should help with this. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by BipolarGrowth

[Nahm]

 

31 minutes ago, trenton said:

I think my life could be amazing if I could resolve this issue somehow. 

Life is amazing.   And within amazing life, focus has been on thinking... ‘something needs to be resolved’.    ....For my life to be.... amazing.  

The thoughts about you that don’t feel good....don’t feel good....because they aren’t actually...about you. They’re being believed in spite of a sensory system functioning properly. Awareness is always that which is prior to the thoughts. 

Read the op in super slow mo. Suuuper slow. Every time there is an “ I “...pause before reading on and say, “That “ I “ is a thought. I am awareness. I am what is aware of that thought a-right there - that  “ I “ thought. I am the awareness, present here and now, aware, of that...none of what follows each of these - “ I “ thoughts - is true, about me, awareness”.  

The same awareness watching the show of the thoughts, is holding the remote. Nobody’s checkin, no one is keeping track, there is no “score”, there is no “judge”, literally - no one is coming, no one is aware of you’re inner game. No one. Every one has their own remote. Couldn’t share that remote if ya tried. It’s alllll you. 

1 hour ago, trenton said:

This means that I don't really love myself at all. 

With that single belief you take a stand of discord against the truth & the very fabric of the universe. 

Love doesn’t care about meaning. Love wouldn’t even know what meaning is.  When people fall in love they become mindless fools and do everything they made their entire serious life about never doing. Being in love transcends all things.  That is how you’re deceiving yourself, and that is why it feels terrible. You are literally in love, reality, and pretending you’re not, pretending you don’t know who you really are with your conditonal amazing life focus. Reality is free and unconditional. Love is free and unconditional, present now and always, eternally, love is presence. Love is this whole place, and you are not separate...at all.

WaaaaAAAAKKKKEEEE UUUUUPPPPP!!!!!!!!!  

[trenton]

@Mu_ my understanding of relativism is that my world view is imaginary, very partial, and false.  All beliefs are false from the point of view that my real goal is survival, and I must convince myself that my beliefs are objective.  In this way I would be lying.

As for what role I am playing, it is very significant.  I want to hurt myself.  There is an underlying pleasure in many inner conflicts.  One example is where I tell myself I am lying in order to make me less effective at it which I view as an improvement.  I know that hating myself fuels the fire further and it is the point of beating myself up.  I get disgusted with myself to the point that I struggle to admit all of this to myself.  It leads to suicidal thoughts when blame myself.  Blaming myself also leads to an underlying pleasure.  I don't know what to do with this part of me.

I wasn't sure if I should put this in serious emotional problems or spirituality.  This should probably be moved.

[Mu_]

3 hours ago, trenton said:

@Mu_ my understanding of relativism is that my world view is imaginary, very partial, and false.  All beliefs are false from the point of view that my real goal is survival, and I must convince myself that my beliefs are objective.  In this way I would be lying.

As for what role I am playing, it is very significant.  I want to hurt myself.  There is an underlying pleasure in many inner conflicts.  One example is where I tell myself I am lying in order to make me less effective at it which I view as an improvement.  I know that hating myself fuels the fire further and it is the point of beating myself up.  I get disgusted with myself to the point that I struggle to admit all of this to myself.  It leads to suicidal thoughts when blame myself.  Blaming myself also leads to an underlying pleasure.  I don't know what to do with this part of me.

I wasn't sure if I should put this in serious emotional problems or spirituality.  This should probably be moved.

I think bipolargrowth said some good things for you that you connected with, so keep reflecting on this.  His second paragraph in particular I'd read some more and I'll expand off a few things below.

This is deep stuff.  Read your original post again, and see if theres anything that doesn't sit true, like you just said it because you believed it to be true and it isn't actually or really known to be.

I do think there is a self hating like pattern and I think its something that you've gotten truely in touch with.  However don't let it be the full picture or conclude you Absolutely hate yourself, leave room for what you don't know.  Something worth trying when you get into this pattern, is don't wiggle away from whats going on, and DONT blame or shame or tell yourself this is wrong, bad or shouldn't be this way, just let the energies/pattern of whats happening happen.  At some point when your in the thick of this, just be like ya I hate myself and I get enjoyment for this for some reason, if thats what feels so true.  Really own it without shame or blame or some idea it shouldn't be this way or its a sin that its happening.  Just own it.  Then ask yourself what do I get out of this and how long do I want to do this.  Honestly look at if this behavior is getting you closer to what you want in life or in the moment or not.  Don't rush this to some idea you think you need to get to, like you must answer in a way that is some how good or to make you stop.  Be as honest with yourself as possible and own that honesty and see what changes.  Maybe you will hate yourself to some degree for some time longer, maybe not, maybe you will see that its not serving you anymore and you'll naturally be able to go yeah, I'm done with this.  Or maybe you will still do it, get some sort of satisfaction and it will pass naturally when your not blaming and shaming and holding onto the idea's of what it means about you.

However, if you do want this to change, accept that it won't happen over night or over weeks, it may take time and to accept the time it takes to change and give space around the issue.  Don't blame yourself that its not happening as fast as you'd like, just accept change takes time and take the baby steps and ups and down it will take to let the change occur.   

Feel free to message in  the future if this is confusing or need further advice.

[PureRogueQ]

From my standpoint it seems simple, there is this identity of you, that thinks that it is true identity , but it doesn't know what it is, because it it is nothing more then idea(belief) that spews this, maybe this comes of as a rough form to address it and maybe there are better ways. 

Edited January 26, 2021 by PureRogueQ