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Tim R

Awareness&Existence

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This is my (attempt of) constructive critique of some of the fundamental assumptions that Leo makes and that some people on this forum share (or simply believe to be true because Leo said so).

It also ties in nicely with solipsism, which is for many on this forum an issue because they basically feel themselves trapped inside their head.

 

The claim that I want to deal with is: "nothing outside you consciousness/awareness exists."

I think that's not true. 

 

Not so long ago there was a thread about "does my kitchen still exist when I'm not in it?"

The problem at hand is of course whether the world exist outside you're "bubble" (as Leo likes to call it (see his video on "guided exercises for realizing that you're god")) or not. 

This "bubble" consists of: your entire sensory field. You're visual field, your auditory experience, etc. 

And outside this bubble there seems to be nothing at all. This is where I disagree. 

 

I say: only because we're not conscious/aware of something, that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. 

 

To think that the bubble is the whole universe is confusing perception with consciousness. 

 

Let me give you an example: only because from a visual (sensory) point of view you're not aware of your head, that doesn't mean that your head doesn't exist. 

Because for example you can feel your head with your fingers. So this means, that your sensory experience of something is not a 100% reliable source for truth.

Because you can get into all sorts of illusions.

  • When you look at the waves that a pebble makes when you throw it into a pond, you're experience tells you that the water is flowing away. Until you put a leaf on the waves and realize that the water is simply going up and down. 
  • When you look at the moon, it looks like a circle. It's not a circle, it's a sphere. But you're "direct experience" tells you that it's a circle. It only looks like it's a circle.

 

Equally, only because you can't perceive your kitchen, that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. It exists, but you can't perceive it.

Just like UV-radiation exists, but you can't perceive it. Or the gravitational pull of Alpha Centauri on your body; you can't perceive it, and yet it exists. 

 

If consciousness is the ground of existence, you don't have to be aware of your kitchen because the kitchen is aware of itself. And so forth, the whole Universe (outside your little bubble) exists because it is aware of itself. 

 

I believed in solipsism for quite a while and it seemed very persuading to me that your bubble is the whole universe.

But now I'm starting to entertain the idea that Leo has overlooked this very subtle step from limited, solipsistic perception to consciousness and is now confusing one with the other. I think he has developed a very elaborate form of solipsism that rests on assumptions that one simply can't disprove (like "imagining" everything), but solipsism nonetheless. 

And I think "the bubble" aka Solipsism is also an illusion. Consciousness encompasses more that your bubble. In fact, there's no bubble. It only looks like there's one. 

Leo's highest source of truth is direct experience and he relies on that and nothing but that - there I think he fell into a trap. And this is a very tricky trap because it can make literally every illusion look like it's valid (aka not an illusion, but truth), as I showed to you. Doesn't have to, but can (and does).

 

After all, if @Leo Gura really believed the bubble to be true, why shoot the videos? To whom are you talking? Nobody? Yes, but "nobody" in what sense? The sense that we don't exist because you can't see/hear/smell/taste (aka "aren't conscious" of) us? Of course you're conscious of us! 

Ok thanks for reading, I'm looking forward to discussion, just please don't let this escalate^_^

Love, Tim

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The problem with this threads is that you cant disprove either your view or leos view..

If existence is infinite you can be sure there is more than ur perceptual " bubble" 

But you wont ever experience anything outside of ur conciousness and thats just fact. 

But ur conciousness puts it to far, actually i like the field analogy Leo is using,  that it is a universal field of conciousness which is experiencing everything.. 

 


Let thy speech be better then silence, or be silent.

- Pseudo-dionysius 

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13 minutes ago, Adamq8 said:

The problem with this threads is that you cant disprove either your view or leos view..

In that case one mustn't claim that which can't be disproved to be true. 

13 minutes ago, Adamq8 said:

But you wont ever experience anything outside of ur conciousness and thats just fact. 

That's right! But that's not the same as saying "nothing outside your awareness exists".

Because "your" awareness extends into infinity. It doesn't stop at the walls of your bubble.

The "bubble" is egoic projection. It's projecting the ego (sense of "I") onto perception which one has confused with consciousness. That's how (elaborate) solipsism works. 

Yes, perception is bound by consciousness (aka existence), but not the other way round. 

Edited by Tim R

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1 minute ago, Tim R said:

That's right! But that's not the same as saying "nothing outside your awareness exists".

Because "your" awareness extends into infinity. It doesn't stop at the walls of your bubble.

The "bubble" is egoic projection. It's projecting the ego (sense of I") onto perception which one has confused with consciousness. 

This was a good point, thread got me thinking, thanks Tim!


Dont look at me! Look inside!

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But it's true. Whatever is outside your awareness, does not exist for you. The kitchen is only a distinction within your awareness, composed of perception data and concepts (including language). Those are all forms of knowing, you can only know a kitchen within awareness, otherwise it doesn't exist. Granted, there maybe other individuated awareness that may know the kitchen, but it is not the same kitchen because every awareness contains different interpretation and even different capacities of perceptions. 

Communication, and language specifically, is what allows us to bridge the gap between our split awareness and co-know the kitchen under similar terms, for the purpose of interaction and survival. 

Awareness, or perceptions and mind, is only a form of consciousness. A limitation. A process designed only for the purpose of Survival. Ultimately even the content of your awareness is a fabrication of the Truth, because perceptions and mind serve the self, not Consciousness. Awareness is not existence, it is only knowing.

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