Husseinisdoingfine

Spiral Theorists trying to skip the GREEN vmeme

22 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Greets Forum, I know that SDi is so way overused on this forum so please be patient.

Anyways, I do have an issue with the way SDi theorists such as Don Beck, Said Dawlabani, and most infamously Ken Wilbur, I feel are trying to skip GREEN.

Don Beck is wayyy to soft on neoliberalism, also I feel as if he's overestimating how advanced Scandinavia is. Dawlabani is trying to push 'conscious capitalism', and Ken Wilbur is accusing GREEN of destroying lower stages and is trying to force YELLOW onto a society that is not ready for it.

Said E. Dawlabani even considered John Makey and Whole Foods to be part of the second tier economic system, which I disagree if you've listen to John Mackey's interview on JRE.

P.S. John Makey is a supply sider who demonizes Socialism.

Personally, I cannot imagine the existence of a conscious tier two society with the existence of Capitalism. I don't like the idea of 'conscious capitalism', as it doesn't eliminate third world exploitation and third world value transference. For every shiny new building that exists in a Scandinavian Social Democracy, there are three sweatshops in South East Asia, Social Democracy is a system that requires third world exploitation.

Edited by Husseinisdoingfine

''To be happy we must not be too concerned with others''.

Albert Camus

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Posted (edited)

As for Wilber I think there may be two problems.

1. Hes stuck in an ivory tower.

2. He grew up in the 60s so he thinks weve already passed peak stage Green. The hippies were different from todays Green and cant really be compared, todays Green is more solid and organized, not just pot-smoking bums. Could you post a video where he says Green is destroying lower stages?

Edited by Rilles

How strange it is to be anything at all

 

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Boomers gonna Boom.

It's amazing how much explanatory power this dumb phrase has ;)


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Yeah but Ken Wilbur, he's an advanced meditator so at least he has to understand the power of Post Modernism?

 


''To be happy we must not be too concerned with others''.

Albert Camus

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Posted (edited)

13 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Yeah but Ken Wilbur, he's an advanced meditator so at least he has to understand the power of Post Modernism?

 

He probably understands it better than anyone here, hes still entitled to an overly optimistic view. Of course we all want society to be peachy but thats not gonna happen for a long time, Green will fight Blue to some extent for atleast 50 years I bet. 

Its Wilber not Wilbur, hes not a redneck. 

Edited by Rilles

How strange it is to be anything at all

 

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Posted (edited)

The GREEN values are not going away with YELLOW emergence, they are in a sense values that have progressively gained quality throughout the interdependent stages of tier 1, and tier 2 stages values the underlying structures that inform the entire system; external and internal, tangible and intangible and brings increasing harmony to that quality.

I don't know what the skipping GREEN and forcing YELLOW intended to address, but I'm guessing the bypassing of the post-modern contradictions that in a sense causes GREEN to arrest development.

If YELLOW (or late GREEN/early YELLOW) would suddenly and magically so emerge in all the key "influencers" of the GREEN "movement" of today, no one would notice, it would still appear GREEN to the GREEN, since the values are still valid. The means of GREEN is what has been causing such friction to the degree that the world is "catching fire", resulting in a lot of unnecessary collateral damage; suffering in individuals, and damage to the human system itself. The means would be different and collateral damage reduced.

What we do here and now, effectively changes the emergence of stages of those that will follow. The individual societal developmental trajectories are not isolated from interference in the way they more-or-less were in the in the past - before the Internet. Without the Internet, we can only imagine what the current GREEN movement would look like. What we can be sure of is that "it" wouldn't be "this".

Edited by Eph75

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Boomers gonna Boom.

It's amazing how much explanatory power this dumb phrase has ;)

Seems like the socio-political environment that was present when people form the backdrop for the worldview in their 20s and 30s is something they carry with them for the rest of their life, eh? I assume our Generation isn't immune to this; I wonder what dumb and out of touch things Millennials and Zoomers will be saying in fifty years.

Edited by DocWatts

The problem is one of opposition between subjective and objective points of view. 

So either the objective conception of the world is incomplete, or the subjective involves illusions that should be rejected.  - Thomas Nagel

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1 hour ago, DocWatts said:

I assume our Generation isn't immune to this; I wonder what dumb and out of touch things Millennials and Zoomers will be saying in fifty years.

Pretty much


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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1 hour ago, DocWatts said:

Seems like the socio-political environment that was present when people form the backdrop for the worldview in their 20s and 30s is something they carry with them for the rest of their life, eh? I assume our Generation isn't immune to this; I wonder what dumb and out of touch things Millennials and Zoomers will be saying in fifty years.

Any wild predictions about the specifics? I'm not even gonna try xD


To balance beauty and complexity so perfectly is a divine mystery.

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Posted (edited)

44 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Any wild predictions about the specifics? I'm not even gonna try xD

Gosh that's a tough one, since there's so many potential issues half a century now that are ripe for being misinterpreted when filtered through the lens of someone whose formative years included the 2008 Financial Crisis, Trump, and Covid.

I guess it would be appropriately ironic that, after pushing society forward on a variety of Social and Economic issues, that aging Millennials and Zoomers mirror the Boomers in some ways, looking down on kids in the 2070s for having things so easy and taking gains that have been made for granted.

(In a raspy, old man voice) "When I was your age, I was paying off $100k in student loan debt working an $11 an hour job in an Amazon fulfillment center, and still living with my parents at the age of thirty. We didn't have drones to deliver our pizzas, and we actually had to know how to drive a car if we wanted to get somewhere." xD

Edited by DocWatts

The problem is one of opposition between subjective and objective points of view. 

So either the objective conception of the world is incomplete, or the subjective involves illusions that should be rejected.  - Thomas Nagel

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1 minute ago, DocWatts said:

In a raspy, old man voice) "When I was your age, I was paying off $100k in student loan debt working an $11 an hour job in an Amazon fulfillment center, and still living with my parents at the age of thirty. We didn't have drones to deliver our pizzas, and we actually had to drive our cars if we wanted to get somewhere." xD

Im dying laughing! Hahaha

This is why its important to evolve with the times and not get too stuck in your paradigm!

Im already freaked out by the advent of Neuralink... Cant imagine what horrors will be invented when Im 50.


How strange it is to be anything at all

 

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8 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

 

There are a many intellectuals that want to skip from Orange to Yellow. I think it's because the intellectuals in question are predominantly men who are naturally more Yang oriented in their philosophies. 

And Green is more Yin-oriented, while Orange/Yellow is more Yang-oriented. And the crux of the resistance to growth in society has to do with Yang dominance and Yin suppression. So, it can be difficult for men who thrive as intellectuals in a Yang society, to open their minds to Green because it feels so emotionally oriented.

So, they may theoretically see the value of Spiral Dynamics but not recognize the Yin values that Green is currently installing and must install for us to eventually (many years after we're all dead) move to a Yellow-oriented society. We must focus on Green and the intellectuals must stop clinging to Yang at the expense of Yin.

It is of no value to skip Green, as it is the first non-patriarchal paradigm since very early in the Purple stage.


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2 hours ago, DocWatts said:

Gosh that's a tough one, since there's so many potential issues half a century now that are ripe for being misinterpreted when filtered through the lens of someone whose formative years included the 2008 Financial Crisis, Trump, and Covid.

I guess it would be appropriately ironic that, after pushing society forward on a variety of Social and Economic issues, that aging Millennials and Zoomers mirror the Boomers in some ways, looking down on kids in the 2070s for having things so easy and taking gains that have been made for granted.

(In a raspy, old man voice) "When I was your age, I was paying off $100k in student loan debt working an $11 an hour job in an Amazon fulfillment center, and still living with my parents at the age of thirty. We didn't have drones to deliver our pizzas, and we actually had to know how to drive a car if we wanted to get somewhere." xD

The only thing you can predict is that it will be some kind of a reaction to the newer generations. Predicting that would essentially be like predicting the next new big thing. Maybe they will create some kind of hyper-inclusive veganism 2.0, where everything is so sacred and the dogma is so strong that it leads to a severe level of self-handicapping, where you literally can't do anything productive without being a sinner, and therefore nothing will be done :P. It would be such a strong anti-consumerism movement that all it could really achieve would be to consume itself xD. I would name this movement "radioactive green"; mutant mean green.


To balance beauty and complexity so perfectly is a divine mystery.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

It is of no value to skip Green, as it is the first non-patriarchal paradigm since very early in the Purple stage.

Yes. The whole free sexuality & gender -shabang of stage Green is crucial step in the evolution of consciousness I believe. The ability to differentiate physical body from gender identity and understanding how society creates gender roles and identity in general is super important.

You don't just jump from material XY - XX - penis - vagina - philosophy to Tier 2 metaphysics, systemic thinking and relativity without understanding identity, gender, emotions and how they play out in society.

Edited by roopepa

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31 minutes ago, roopepa said:

Yes. The whole free sexuality & gender -shabang of stage Green is crucial step in the evolution of consciousness I believe. The ability to differentiate physical body from gender identity and understanding how society creates gender roles and identity in general is super important.

You don't just jump from material XY - XX - penis - vagina - philosophy to Tier 2 metaphysics, systemic thinking and relativity without understanding identity, gender, emotions and how they play out in society.

Almost like each stage (gasp) builds upon the one that came before it... For as much nuance as there is to the SD-model, the developmental model that underlies is actually fairly intuitive, at least in its broad outlines.

Having the ability to step back and examine your own worldview from a meta perspective seems to be the larger hurdle (and I do of course recognize that this is a sizeable hurdle).


The problem is one of opposition between subjective and objective points of view. 

So either the objective conception of the world is incomplete, or the subjective involves illusions that should be rejected.  - Thomas Nagel

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Posted (edited)

It’s not just boomers. I find about half of green folk annoying as hell, but that’s just me.

not saying this as a spiral theorist lol just as someone who knows about the model.

Edited by Dryas

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3 hours ago, roopepa said:

Yes. The whole free sexuality & gender -shabang of stage Green is crucial step in the evolution of consciousness I believe. The ability to differentiate physical body from gender identity and understanding how society creates gender roles and identity in general is super important.

You don't just jump from material XY - XX - penis - vagina - philosophy to Tier 2 metaphysics, systemic thinking and relativity without understanding identity, gender, emotions and how they play out in society.

Yes, very much so.


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The masterclass includes all the foundational information you need for beginning a Shadow Work practice. DM me if you have any questions and I'll get back to you as soon as possible.

 

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1 hour ago, roopepa said:

Do you have covid?

Nope, just asthma xD


The problem is one of opposition between subjective and objective points of view. 

So either the objective conception of the world is incomplete, or the subjective involves illusions that should be rejected.  - Thomas Nagel

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