How exactly do you let go? (Needs, cravings)

[Gesundheit]

@MrWolf I don't consider horniness or hunger desires. Food and sex are biological needs for the body, similar to air/breathing. Your original state is not a state of lack. Rather, it's a state of fulfillment. Note that you cannot keep feeling hungry after you eat, but you can still be greedy regardless (desire/ego-mind). The same thing for sex. You cannot force yourself to feel horny after sex, but you can still scheme and plan for your next intercourse (desire/ego-mind).

The reason why lack exists in the first place is because of the ego-mind. But I don't want to go into that here or now because it's not the proper place for it and because it's too complex.

[Forestluv]

@meow_meow Using strategies to let go can be useful, yet I would also keenly observe the process of letting go. When impulses arise, what does resisting those impulses look and feel like? What does the process of gaining relief look and feel like? If one gives in to the impulse, if one changes focus, if one sits with the impulse. How exactly does the process work? This exercise has helped give me some insights. There are other things that are useful as well, yet this exercise gave me greater awareness and understanding of what I was dealing with. 

[MrWolf]

@Gesundheit Ok. Your using a different definition of desire then the normal. You distinguish between simple needs and objects of desire. Then I understand you.

29 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

The reason why lack exists in the first place is because of the ego-mind. But I don't want to go into that here or now because it's not the proper place for it and because it's too complex.

Lack is an extremely interesting phenomenon. Something I find really interesting. Lack as the direct consequences of split (Experience/Duality). But yes lets not flood this tread with lack. Maybe another time.

Edited December 3, 2020 by MrWolf

[Mu_]

@MrWolf   Ya that was my thinking behind why it may work as well.  You watched the meaning video?  What did you get out of it, just curious.

[Mu_]

@meow_meow Did you try out the advice, and did it work?

[mandyjw]

You don't have to let go because there isn't anything there. The thought is ephemeral in nature. Give attention to what you want instead.

Most cravings are born out of an imbalanced life. Here's the deceptively difficult thing to accept. It's not your fault. If people ate together with people they loved and had lively conversations with every meal, no one would over eat. If people loved their food, and prepared it together with presence and love and creativity, no one would want junk food. If communities were properly designed, and we lived lives in communion with nature, exercise would be integral to your day to day life. If sex wasn't both repressed and over glorified, it wouldn't be a compulsion. We live such individualized separated lives. For what? So we don't have to fight about what TV program we want to watch with anyone else? 

None of this is your fault. None of it is your responsibility. However, you have the ability to respond and to go in the direction of what feels better and in doing so move the society in one that feels better by making personal choices that feel better. Sometimes to forgive yourself and actually release the compulsions you have to forgive the fact that you were put in a position where you had to learn this shit on your own and basically pioneer a way to a more aligned with nature kind of life. 

Then once the guilt and blame is released the inspiration to choose something that feels better is all you're left with. 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by mandyjw

[kbone]

Be honest with yourself about "wants" versus "needs".

Seek the insights to see how such perceptions came to be.

Notice how one part of the mind says this, while the other says that. That's confusion of the split mind.

Then, notice how the mind comes up with another focus to hide from having to deal with that confusion, which then becomes a part of the substrate... another layer. More wants then come into desirous perception. Always more... the distractions are endless.

True letting go is born of insight into the structure of self, which is the illusion kinda holding the whole thingy together. Takes effort. Letting go is effortless, but the mind doth protest.

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by kbone

[meow_meow]

@Mu_ Yeah, sorry for the late reply, I PM'ed You.
 

On 2020.12.8. at 5:11 PM, mandyjw said:

You don't have to let go because there isn't anything there

Yes, What I've learned from my Alan Watts Way of Zen book is that there is nothing to let go, because I havent grabben onto anything in the first place.
 

On 2020.12.8. at 5:11 PM, mandyjw said:

Most cravings are born out of an imbalanced life.

Aha, and most of my cravings come out of booredom which comes when I'm taking a break from the rat race/hobbies/reading/meditating etc and have a lack of socializing because of lost friends due to rise in awareness and self esteem etc.
 

On 2020.12.8. at 5:11 PM, mandyjw said:

None of this is your fault. None of it is your responsibility.

What exactly do you mean by this? I really don't see how I'm not responsible for my current situation, also I don't really understand who's fault could it be, besides mine, since it's my life?

[73809]

@meow_meow you should do whatever you want to do! Do you want to masturbate and eat junk food? Go right ahead! Do it! 
 

it’s perfectly okay to not do it if you prefer. but it’s perfectly okay to do it if you prefer. do what you will; ask not what you should do.

[73809]

On 11/29/2020 at 3:20 PM, meow_meow said:

Yeah, this is a cool insight, that I wasn't aware of before.

So basically,
Craving = Thought (of food, alcohol, being lazy etc), that I've attached to.
Letting go =  Sitting trough the pain that arises while trying to not give in to the thought (Craving) ?

& repeating the process of Letting go each time thoughts, that cause cravings, arise should eventually free me from them?

Sounds miserable. Self regulation. You make it sound like a chore, something I wouldn’t want to do. Is that what you want? Self regulation doesn’t have to be so hard anyway. Maybe I am lucky; but like I said, you should do whatever you want. If you want to self regulate, then do it. If you want to masturbate and eat junk food, then do it; you should! You “should” do whatever you want to do; if you want to self regulate then do it. The question is, do you truly want to self regulate? If yes, then what is the problem? Do it! You should! You should self regulate; you should indulge; you should do both; either! What will you do? That is the question. Don’t over complicate it.

[juvoci]

@meow_meow

Over time, you'll probably lose interest in those low quality materials. The more time passes, the less you'll crave them.

Also, consistently remind yourself why you choose to let go of such things. For example, I used to eat a lot of cheese, but my skin was always unhealthy. Then I stopped eating cheese and my skin became much healthier.

Everytime I have an opportunity to eat cheese, I just remind myself: "Would I rather enjoy this cheese for five or ten minutes, and have acne for the next week? Or would I rather eat some stir-fry vegetables instead, and have healthy skin?" The answer is always obvious.

In fact, just the other day, I walked into my office and my co-workers were eating pizza. I thought: "Damn, I'm hungry, and the pizza looks delicious." But I resisted the temptation, and felt great about it all day; especially when I look in the mirror and see how clear my skin is.

=]  <3

[73809]

On 12/3/2020 at 3:08 PM, Gesundheit said:

Wrong. We inhale and exhale air all the time effortlessly, and without desire. Breathing is life, and it is desire-less. Try again, Mr. Ego-mind.

Desires are natural to the human. Humans have desires. Being desire-less is just as natural as being with desire is natural. They both occur. Don’t shame desires; for they are natural to have. 

[meow_meow]

21 minutes ago, 73809 said:

The question is, do you truly want to self regulate?

No, it's the only technique that helps me stay away from the things I want to do (short term pleasure, Id) but understand that I shouldn't because it's bad for my health, and I'll be shaming myself later (superego)

I want that I could not want those cheetos and beer. So simply doing what I want which is not want, which would lead to = "Simply don't want to!" .. dunno doesn't make much sense to me. How can one should simply Not want? By not wanting not to want? heh.

[73809]

17 minutes ago, meow_meow said:

No, it's the only technique that helps me stay away from the things I want to do (short term pleasure, Id) but understand that I shouldn't because it's bad for my health, and I'll be shaming myself later (superego)

I want that I could not want those cheetos and beer. So simply doing what I want which is not want, which would lead to = "Simply don't want to!" .. dunno doesn't make much sense to me. How can one should simply Not want? By not wanting not to want? heh.

Maybe you’re conflicted. But imo it’s perfectly okay to do whatever. Nothing wrong with being overweight. Nothing wrong with self indulging! If you like junk food then eat it; why you gotta shame yourself for wanting junk food? There’s a reason junk food tastes so good; it’s pure energy. Sugar and carbs are great! Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise! Besides, watching your weight is about the calories you get. And a balanced diet doesn’t mean you’re not eating junk; it means you’re getting good nutrition despite what junk you do eat 

of course, if you want to self-regulate go right ahead. but don’t shame yourself for having cravings; junk food is good. Masturbation is good. If you truly want to not do them, it will be easy to not do them. But like I said maybe I’m lucky and don’t get it. Do what you want to do; and be clear with yourself what that is! Don’t guilt yourself for conflict at any rate. You seem to have conflicting desires. But it doesn’t have to be difficult! If you want to self regulate and not eat junk food, then you need to remind yourself why. Refraining should be easy! You just gotta be clear with yourself on what exactly it is you want. And like I said, nothing wrong with wanting junk food and masturbation! Don’t let some health nut tell you otherwise! If you truly want to be healthy, then it’ll be easy. But that’s assuming you’re not conflicted. I don’t know what else to say, hope I’m helping!

[mandyjw]

4 hours ago, meow_meow said:

What exactly do you mean by this? I really don't see how I'm not responsible for my current situation, also I don't really understand who's fault could it be, besides mine, since it's my life?

I mean you are able to respond. Feeling at fault or lacking is a total waste of time and keeps you stuck. Just dream of what you want and go for it. 

[Gesundheit]

13 hours ago, 73809 said:

Desires are natural to the human. Humans have desires. Being desire-less is just as natural as being with desire is natural. They both occur. Don’t shame desires; for they are natural to have. 

Oh, no, they aren't. You have no idea.

[mandyjw]

7 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

Oh, no, they aren't. You have no idea.

If you doubt your desires and believe your fears you suffer. You can still experience fear and desire without believing them or doubting them. Fear is just like a thrill then and desire, well that's a thrill too. 

[lmfao]

@meow_meow I was thinking the other day that I don't know what it means to surrender. I would give a theoretical answer but I'll spare that untill I manage to do it myself

[Gesundheit]

3 hours ago, mandyjw said:

You can still experience fear and desire without believing them or doubting them.

Yeah, because death cannot see through your cheap tricks.

[mandyjw]

8 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Yeah, because death cannot see through your cheap tricks.

These cheap tricks?