Husseinisdoingfine

Misuse of Spiral Dynamics(SDi)ūüďē, a broad issue on this forum.

27 posts in this topic

Greetings forum, I do have a slight issue with how some people are posting, this is going to be my constructive criticism (pls no ban).

So in the Spiral Dynamics Green mega thread, there are people who are posting examples of what they think is Green, with inaccurate results.

I'm noticing people posting random kind gestures under the Green mega thread, for example I remember someone posting a weird video under there about how to deal with bullies, another example of a cancer patient who donated her hair, and then some sort of suicide awareness video.

The point I'm trying to make is that, just because it's a kind gesture, doesn't make it 'Green', what makes something 'Green' is how it corresponds to 'Green' values and the entire 'Green' value system. 

I'm seeing this with the mega thread of the other colors (people posting things that don't correspond to the value systems), as well a broader issue on this forum of general misuse of the model.

Here's why I think that's happening: People are only learning about Spiral Dynamics from Leo, and not actually researching the vMEME's themselves. vMEME is the proper name of each '''stage''' btw.

This is what I theorize is going on, as I have asked a few people if they've read the book before, and the only response I've gotten was, ''Well, I'm not much of a reader''.

And Leo does twist the model a bit in his Spiral series, Red and Purple was spot on correct, Blue, Orange, and, Green were  romanticized a lot. As for the Yellow and Turquoise(rip) videos, I was surprised how far they veered off from the original book.

And for Blue, Orange, and Green videos, I did get the general idea what they were about, but I didn't know their spiral essence from the videos, for example: The Blue video didn't cover how Blue was the Truthforce vmeme that strived to bring order and purpose to a chaotic world, and enforce a righteous way of living (This was covered briefly, but not in a very sophisticated way). After watching the Blue video, the viewer is left with this kind of cartoony image of a Nazi grandma who bible thumps her kids for not voting for Trump.

And that's my main issue with the Blue, Orange, and Green, videos, they leave the viewer with a cartoony image of the stages, that means if your stage is:

  • Blue, then your some sort of fundamentalist weirdo¬†who crucified¬†their child¬†for skipping church that one time
  • Orange, then you're a rich fat cat¬†who dumps their trash into rivers on purpose because you're taking out your inner personal revenge on the environment, you do this while smoking a cigar
  • You can fill in the rest dear reader

And because the viewer is left with these cartoony images, this leaves them only know those stages by and see other people in those cartoony images.

Another critique I have is that people are ignorant to the broad science behind the models. If your only source of learning about this from the Actualized.org video series, then you only know the colors, and that's it. There's so much more to SDi those 8 colors.  There's also:

  • (LC) Life conditions (It's absolutely criminal that at least the LC wasn't covered), LC1,LC2,LC3,LC4,LC5, & LC6
  • vMEME attractors
  • vMEME'S DNA
  • A vMEME's life cycle
  • A vMEME's Lexicon
  • vMEME'S stacks-Systems within¬†people/MEME profile
  • Authority structures

Of course, I do not expect Leo to go over all of this, but I do make a request of the dear forum user to actually take the time to read the original SDi book. The book is much more preferable to outside websites such as https://spiraldynamicsintegral.nl/en/ , because even those websites spin it in their own way I noticed.

Please, read the book, thank you.

spiral-dynamics-600x600.jpg

P.S. I am absolutely not blaming Leo in any way, shape or form, this post is merely about the incorrect usage of the model on this forum.

Edited by Husseinisdoingfine
Had to add .P.S.

''To be happy we must not be too concerned with others''.

Albert Camus

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Link to buy the book:

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/spiral-dynamics-don-edward-beck/1121800741?ean=9781405133562

P.S., In the Purple vMEME video, Leo mentioned how purple existed for as long as humans, and this is how homo sapiens began. This is incorrect, it is Beige, that has existed for as long as humans.


''To be happy we must not be too concerned with others''.

Albert Camus

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Not to mention half the people dont even accept the model + having not read the book. How scientific. ;) 

Edited by Rilles

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

 

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   I've also noticed this in me, sometimes I'll use the stages to generalize a person or a group at, sometimes I misuse the spiral on myself.

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Yeah I get you.

 

But people will always misuse models and we can't really control that because the ego mind can spin anything it wants in self deception.

We can also use the model to get great insight and positive results.

The tricky thing with scientific models is that the model isn't  the territory nor is it perfect.

The ego mind will take these models and misuse it in so many ways if we aren't careful.

 

And we all have different conceptions of the model and how it links up with our direct experience of people.

Leo's videos for instance cover purely his experience with the model which may be different from yours or someone elses.

 

I generally like to look at the big picture trends in the model and get an estimate rather than trying to peg someone exactly.

 

Furthermore we are all biased because we will probably demonize certain stages or values we disagree with which is not a bug in the model but  in our own personal psyches. 

If someone says something we disagree with we can just say "oh they are stage orange and I'm stage yellow" so they must be wrong. When they may  be making a valid point.

The key here imo is keeping a very open mind and being able to take the spiral on and off like a pair of glasses. If the glasses get stuck to our face and we mistake it for reality, thats when trouble ensues.

 

 

 

Edited by Byun Sean

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@HusseinisdoingfineThere's a lot to unpack here....

I also read the Spiral Dynamics book myself, along with Ken Wilber's Integral Model. And I have to say that @Leo Gura actually does a decent job in explaining the model in its broadest terms, could have done it better? Maybe, I actually think that his explanations towards vMEME Yellow and Systems Thinking could have been better. But it's also important to take into account how much emphasis he puts in verifying everything he says in the viewer's direct experience! And to not take everything he says as dogma. He also makes it very clear how easy it is to misuse this model or to use that to appeal to their own biases...

With regard to the mega-threads, I do agree that there are videos that shouldn't belong in the category of a particular MEME. I was also guilty of this in the beginning, before I read the book, today I'm much more careful about this, whenever I'm not 100% sure I write it down in advance. I think that ,maybe, if it becomes too far off the moderators could regulators to filter whether it belong to that particular stage or not. (I know this sugestion is highly unpopular, but it is not up to me to decide it, the whole forum should have to agree on that, or not)

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@Byun Sean We'll the issue here isn't as much ego mind self deception, as it is just ignorance of how the model was conceived and meant to be applied by.

I also don't like the constant use of the word 'stage' on this forum, the word 'stage' is astutely absent in the original writings of the authors. Let's instead either capitalize and bold text and highlight the COLOR, or add vMEME right next to the Color vMEME


''To be happy we must not be too concerned with others''.

Albert Camus

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5 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

@Byun Sean We'll the issue here isn't as much ego mind self deception, as it is just ignorance of how the model was conceived and meant to be applied by.

I also don't like the constant use of the word 'stage' on this forum, the word 'stage' is astutely absent in the original writings of the authors. Let's instead either capitalize and bold text and highlight the COLOR, or add vMEME right next to the Color vMEME

That actually sounds like a pretty good idea.

That would take the minds tendency to make it into a strict hierarchy out of it a bit too.

Edited by Byun Sean

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@Byun Sean Lol, that was a joke but OK, if people start doing that it means I got through to them.


''To be happy we must not be too concerned with others''.

Albert Camus

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1 hour ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

As for the Yellow and Turquoise(rip) videos, I was surprised how far they veered off from the original book.

This was because the writers and founders of the system never got close to stage turquoise.

One also has to be careful of projecting one's authority onto the founders. Just because they found and developed the system does not mean they were 100% right on all matters within it. I personally find Wilber's integral system much better and more detailed, since Wilber himself is turquoise, he has been through most of the stages that the spiral founders never did. 

But I do agree with your post nonetheless, people do misjudge way too easily.

 

 

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There are so many stages beyond Turquoise lmao


 You have been gifted the Golden Kappa~! 

 

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1 minute ago, Thewritersunion said:

There are so many stages beyond Turquoise lmao

It spirals to infinity, or atleast until humanity is extinct. 


"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

 

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@fridjonk I don't want to give the founders all the authority as much I just want to use their model as correctly and respectfully as possible 


''To be happy we must not be too concerned with others''.

Albert Camus

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6 minutes ago, Thewritersunion said:

There are so many stages beyond Turquoise lmao

You're really talking about states instead of stages after that. 

This is why I prefer integral, it doesn't mix the two together. 

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1 minute ago, Thewritersunion said:

@Rilles and backwards too. 

My objective is to go from Green to Purple in a lifetime. Like a Spiral Benjamin Button. 


"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

 

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