dflores321

Why are spiritual teachers against psychedelics?

107 posts in this topic

Psychedelics are an amazing medicine, one can have awakenings that would take a much longer time with the usual spiritual practices. 

I notice that many spiritual teachers dont bring up psychedelics as a good medicine to use for letting go of traumas, having spiritual experiences, shifting from perception to feeling.

Why is this? 


"As long as you're enthralled by a lifeless form, you're not free."

-A Buddha

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They are probably not familiar with them and if you can do it natural way then why bother using substance and they think its really easy to awaken peac of cake...

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Personal enlightenment is about detachment from experience; transcendence to various degrees. Psychedelics are just another experience. Not that they can’t be useful for raising levels of apparent conscious power. Of course neither personal enlightenment nor psychedelics nor consciousness work has anything at ALL to do with liberation, which is all there is. But I can see where the “teachers” are coming from. They are truly trying to help you transcend experience — that is probably most efficiently attained by self love or samadhi practice (the jhanas), and insight meditation. Psychedelics are amazing and illuminating, but no matter how profound they may seem, they just provide additional experience, which is the whole trap — seeming to know the unknowable.

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3 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Psychedelics are just another experience.

False


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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If psychedelics were widely available, 90% of spiritual teachers would lose their jobs and get called out on their bullshit. The power that a spiritual teacher has over you is directly proportional to your lack of altered states of consciousness.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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I think some people are against psychedelics especially in the East because psychedelics are called drugs. 

In Eastern culture, there is a very strong mindset against any form of drug. 

You'll see people in my area routinely telling people to not even take pharmaceutical drugs but try some herbs or therapy for various diseases. 

If they don't want to be take a chemical as a medicine, what are the chances that they will take a chemical labeled as a drug. 

There is a strong anti - drug paranoia in the East. They imagine it to be something very dangerous to the body. 

Personally I'm scared too. I have tried Ayahuasca sometimes and had wonderful fractal trips on it. 

But I don't have the courage to try something like 5-Meo-DMT. 

But that's okay. It is just individual preference. 


.

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1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

False

Yeah. As is everything. This (what I described) is essentially coming from complete hypocrisy, as any character would call it, just so you know. I took a hell of a lot of mushrooms and LSD at the same time just last week. There’s no seeking, though. It’s just happening. Not possible to comprehend. Psychedelics induce a state that’s impossible to comprehend, but it isn’t really incomprehensible to “you“ — you feel that it changes you in some way. That’s an illusion. Nothing ever changes or happens. Take the experience of jhanas 1-8. It is happiness and ecstasy beyond compare or perceivable need of any kind. It would very likely convince anyone that psychedelics are just another experience. But jhanas are also just experiences. Consciousness work is squarely situated in the realm of experience. And there’s nothing (at all) wrong with that. It’s perfect actually.

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@The0Self If psychedelics are just another experience for you, then you ain't using them right.

Any insight or lesson you can get from a nonduality teacher, you can get 100x better from psychedelics. Case closed.

If you object to psychedelics, then you should also object to every spiritual teaching ever spoken or written.

"Just experience" my ass.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

@The0Self If psychedelics are just another experience for you, then you ain't using them right.

They aren’t another experience for me. They’re just another experience. Ultimately. As far as consciousness work is concerned, they are just about as useful as it gets, yes. No real disagreement. But ultimately of course nothing has any value, so... yeah. Sure you could say something else is going on with psychedelics, but it’s completely unknowable and devoid of meaning.

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@NoSelfSelf I think their spiritual wisdom is valid, but they can go much deeper. 

@The0Self I agree with what you mean about detachment from experience, this is true. But, psychedelics also provide awakenings and lessons about different facets of awakening. Psychedelics and meditation can be brought together, psychedelics for massive insights and purging, meditation for embodiment and detachment. 

@Leo Gura Wow, this is really true, this is why im cautious to make a guru out of someone. You think these teachers are bullshitting though? What if  they just dont know? Its also weird to see these teachers like ordinary people, ive made buddhas out of them :D . 

39 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If psychedelics were widely available, 90% of spiritual teachers would lose their jobs and get called out on their bullshit. The power that a spiritual teacher has over you is directly proportional to your lack of altered states of consciousness.

@Preety_India Yes, I notice the drug paranoia in the east. Theres this prideful attitude that gurus have about not needing any drugs. Also, ayahuasca is awesome theres a church in my state that has ceremonies ill definitely do one in the future :) . 

 


"As long as you're enthralled by a lifeless form, you're not free."

-A Buddha

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@dflores321 it's not a prideful attitude. It is about fear. 

Most people in the East fear that drugs would do permanent harm. 

The gurus also have this fear and don't want to encourage the masses to take drugs. 

This fear has been induced by the 80s cocaine Era where people in the west use to experiment with drugs like crack, meth, cocaine and many of the bad effects weren't known back then. 

Seeing all that and how people died from drug overdoses in large numbers in the West and the hedonism with drugs from the 70s and 80s fueled a huge fear about drugs in the East 

Because we don't have the infrastructure to have a drug Rehabilitation centers like in the West 

Drugs came to be quickly demonized in every household because it meant spending over your money on very expensive drugs and the risk of homelessness and overdose. 

For a country that is already struggling with huge poverty, something like drugs would look like a holocaust. 

That's where all the drug paranoia came from 

The government made draconian laws against the usage of drugs and these laws exist. 

Today if someone is found with even a few grams of Marijuana in my country, their life is in huge danger, the punishment is pretty bad. 


.

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@Preety_India that's a good point, its way easier to be homeless and have a horrible life in poor countries, so taking drugs is even worse. 

Whenever I go to new delhi the bell boy always offers me marijuana. I got the impression that there's so many people, controlling whether people take drugs is impossible. There's like 1 army soldier per 1000 people. I get drugs there and they barely notice because there's too many people. And besides those army soldiers have way bigger issues to deal with like Kashmir and Pakistan protests.

Edited by electroBeam

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@Preety_India Thats interesting how such wise people such as gurus can still have that fear from their culture. 

Oh yea and by prideful attitude, I mean teachers who have taken large amounts of psychedelics to boast about not needing them. 

Edited by dflores321

"As long as you're enthralled by a lifeless form, you're not free."

-A Buddha

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@dflores321 Because psychedelics are not fully accepted by society yet and most spiritual teachers don't want to go against society's opinion/approval. Leo will go down in history as a pioneer Psychonaut for spirituality.

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@Natasha Hell yeah, one day Leo will be in an Alex Grey painting :D . 

1 minute ago, Natasha said:

Leo will go down in history as a pioneer Psychonaut for spirituality.

 


"As long as you're enthralled by a lifeless form, you're not free."

-A Buddha

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56 minutes ago, The0Self said:

They aren’t another experience for me. They’re just another experience. Ultimately. As far as consciousness work is concerned, they are just about as useful as it gets, yes. No real disagreement. But ultimately of course nothing has any value, so... yeah. Sure you could say something else is going on with psychedelics, but it’s completely unknowable and devoid of meaning.

Could elaborate on what you mean "ultimately of course nothing has any value, so... yeah. Sure you could say something else is going on with psychedelics, but it’s completely unknowable and devoid of meaning".

"What exactly" has no meaning or value?

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2 hours ago, Mu_ said:

Could elaborate on what you mean "ultimately of course nothing has any value, so... yeah. Sure you could say something else is going on with psychedelics, but it’s completely unknowable and devoid of meaning".

"What exactly" has no meaning or value?

Anything. As there is only everything, and there’s nothing that could stand apart for everything to “have.”

(or that could have everything)

Edited by The0Self

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There can be several reasons. Many spiritual teachers don't even endorse or prescribe specific techniques, even ones as common as meditation. Many people awaken without psychedelics, why would someone recommend something they've never experienced that is also illegal? There's no reason for doing it. There are a lot of areas to explore in life. Part of the fun is that this is your exploration and your awakening will unfold for you like it has for no one else ever. 


My Youtube Channel- Light on Earth “Run from what's comfortable. Forget safety. Live where you fear to live. Destroy your reputation. Be notorious. I have tried prudent planning long enough. From now on I'll be mad.~ Rumi

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