Husseinisdoingfine

Is any 9-5 and employer job automatically wage slavery?

53 posts in this topic

36 minutes ago, vizual said:

@smurf88 Sorry I only dance to my own music nowadays(as much as I can anyway). I'll hit you up if I ever get in dire straits.

Sorry, bad joke :P

The question is, how do you maintain self-respect while allowing an employer to walk over you and use your labor to fund their retirement? (or God forbid, their yacht.)

Edited by smurf88

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Yes it is. 6-2 is even worse and 10-6 even worse than that. 

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I wish i was working 9-5. jobs are running up dry in my native england. I don't care about much I just don't want to be homeless. fuck uncertainty and the crushing responsibilites.  we all value different things and some people hate that kind of life.

Edited by wk197

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20 hours ago, Thestarguitarist14 said:

Truth hurts.

It's way more nuanced than that.  

What do you say to a teacher who's life mission and passion is teaching children? 

He is locked into a 9-5, but he is happy and fulfilled. 

 

Of course, that's only one example. But I think this idea of speaking in absolutes is stupid , and lazy.

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in Germany it’s actually set up so it’s better for you to be employed, you have more security.  For example if you loose your job or get sick you don’t have to worry because the system helps you.  If you are self employed there is a lot of buerocracy hoops you have to jump through to be able to do it, and then taxes and insurance are so high.  They prefer you to be employed here.  
I am employed currently and wish to be self employed, but I am a foreigner living here so it’s intimidating for me to do so. 

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3 hours ago, herghly said:

It's way more nuanced than that.  

What do you say to a teacher who's life mission and passion is teaching children? 

He is locked into a 9-5, but he is happy and fulfilled. 

 

Of course, that's only one example. But I think this idea of speaking in absolutes is stupid , and lazy.

Most teachers do not have a mission or passion for teaching children.  That is one of the many things wrong with the educational system.  Most teachers are severely underpaid at that.

 

Get real.

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@Husseinisdoingfine If you do it right and you're good, the company can be your slave, not the other way around ;) Companies want to keep good employees and good companies invest in good employees to retain them. The better you are, the better the conditions you can demand.

For example, does some head of AI at Google or whatever look like wage slave to you? Probably not, and I bet he/she gets paid a shit ton of money while working on projects he/she is most passionate about.

I also work as a Data professional and I really enjoy my work. For me this is much better than freelancing because Data Science is such a rapidly changing field and you have to keep up with new advancements.

My company literally pays me to stay educated and learn the latest tech. As a freelancer all of these hours are time I wouldn't get paid for.

Also my work requires access to large amounts of data and expensive technology. These are resources that big companies have and without them my work wouldn't be as interesting.

Edited by datamonster

Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. But teach a fish to catch and eat a man and you have really accomplished something. - Buddha

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I think wage slave is more if you’re working in a mind numbing job that you hate for many years. 
 

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16 minutes ago, Tangerinedream said:

I think wage slave is more if you’re working in a mind numbing job that you hate for many years. 
 

You Point to an interesting Question. I wrote above some Variable to get you out of Wage Slavery. But what is exactly is a Wage Slave?

My ad hoc Definition of 'Wage Slave' is:

You need a stable Income to maintain your Consumer-Life. Therefore you can't quit the Job UNLESS you have another Job at Hand. That's the Tragedy. You are subtly aware you have do what you are told to do EVEN if it is against your Values.

Some People are dead poor, this is not the Point, but a significant minority in Western Societies spends JUST TOO MUCH MONEY on Consumer Goods instead of achieving Ownership, which is the way out of Wage Slavery. After you are Free, you can still work in your 9 to 5, but then completely on your Terms. If someone wants you to violate your Values you can say 'No'.

What do you think?@datamonster @herghly @smurf88 @BlackMaze @wk197

 

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44 minutes ago, supremeyingyang said:

Some People are dead poor, this is not the Point, but a significant minority in Western Societies spends JUST TOO MUCH MONEY on Consumer Goods instead of achieving Ownership, which is the way out of Wage Slavery. After you are Free, you can still work in your 9 to 5, but then completely on your Terms. If someone wants you to violate your Values you can say 'No'.

I agree that this is one way out of it. I have a slightly different strategy though.

My strategy is this:

  1. Find a career you are passionate about
  2. Get really good at it
  3. Make yourself so valuable to a company that they can't easily replace you
  4. Demand whatever you want and they will happily give it

Of course, you can have side-hustles, invest your money and all that at the same time.

I've worked with numerous people who succeed at this. Some get more vacation. Some can basically come and go to work whenever they want. Some get a shit ton of money. Some get a nice car. Some get equity. And others later commit full-time to their side-hustles.

You can have almost anything you want as en employee, granted that you are really good and deliver, of course.

I think for most people, this approach is much more doable than entrepreneurship.

Edited by datamonster

Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. But teach a fish to catch and eat a man and you have really accomplished something. - Buddha

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42 minutes ago, supremeyingyang said:

You Point to an interesting Question. I wrote above some Variable to get you out of Wage Slavery. But what is exactly is a Wage Slave?

My ad hoc Definition of 'Wage Slave' is:

You need a stable Income to maintain your Consumer-Life. Therefore you can't quit the Job UNLESS you have another Job at Hand. That's the Tragedy. You are subtly aware you have do what you are told to do EVEN if it is against your Values.

Some People are dead poor, this is not the Point, but a significant minority in Western Societies spends JUST TOO MUCH MONEY on Consumer Goods instead of achieving Ownership, which is the way out of Wage Slavery. After you are Free, you can still work in your 9 to 5, but then completely on your Terms. If someone wants you to violate your Values you can say 'No'.

What do you think?@datamonster @herghly @smurf88 @BlackMaze @wk197

 

@supremeyingyang yup that's exactly what i'm planning to do. I'm lucky enough to have an income after losing my 9-5 and i use my only opportunity to get my shit handled, fix my health and plan this whole apprenticeship thing to escape wage slavery. I need to make a sustainable plan and find ways to have stable high energy even when i work. When i worked in the past i was like a zombie slave having 0 energy to do something meaningful with my little time i had left. That's why i have to think this through before i start looking for the least shitty 9-5 job again in order to pay my bills and save money. 

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54 minutes ago, datamonster said:

I think for most people, this approach is much more doable than entrepreneurship.

True. That's another Way. What I meant with Ownership is not only Entrepreneurship, but Real Estate, Stocks, Gold, Art or whatever suits you. You have to know what you do, not just buy the XY-Crypto-Coin which will SAAAAAAVE bring return. Even the most Average People can own something which will make things easier down the road.
Some of these Things i mentioned are merely Container you give more money in, others bring an Return. This Return is what gives you even more financial freedom in my mind. But beware or you become too greedy and go into deals 'that are too good to be true' - and they are...^^

36 minutes ago, BlackMaze said:

@supremeyingyang yup that's exactly what i'm planning to do. I'm lucky enough to have an income after losing my 9-5 and i use my only opportunity to get my shit handled, fix my health and plan this whole apprenticeship thing to escape wage slavery. I need to make a sustainable plan and find ways to have stable high energy even when i work. When i worked in the past i was like a zombie slave having 0 energy to do something meaningful with my little time i had left. That's why i have to think this through before i start looking for the least shitty 9-5 job again in order to pay my bills and save money. 

Same here, but I have a Job. For me it's really about focus, I'm into way to many hustles, hobbies and adventures. I realized that I need to let a lot of that stuff go to pursue Mastery and Break out of Wage Slavery.
What's your Field? Or do you even think of switching Field to achieve that?

Edited by supremeyingyang

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@supremeyingyang i'm a mechanic but that is just because i didn't have many options. I changed country and without knowing the language and without enough support from parents to be able to study it's the only thing i could do and it was fun while learning it. As a job is not so fun anymore. 

But still as a mechanic i could probably save 40k after 5 years if i plan this right. 

I decided i want to make my own indie games. Of course the mastery road for this is very long and currently i procrastinate learning c++ to the death. I also want to learn how to invest and about other side hustles that can help me escape faster. 

The tricky thing with all of this is the planning and how will i balance my time and energy right. 

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4 minutes ago, BlackMaze said:

The tricky thing with all of this is the planning and how will i balance my time and energy right. 

That's Key. I tend to overwork and so I'm thinking now how to get myself rest when I need it because I'm so into busting through every obstacle.

It's funny, everyone who wants to do better goes into some part of the Tech Industry to Code (I as well). I'm curious if that'll lead to a market saturation in 5 to 10 Years. We will see... until then we are likely to be big enough to not be affected

14 minutes ago, BlackMaze said:

But still as a mechanic i could probably save 40k after 5 years if i plan this right.

40k are very good if you are young (I've 1/4 of that after 1.5 Years), but what I'm more concerned of is if there is opportunity get more. Yes, Money is great. But I would by far prefer to be a skilled Expert who earns 2 twice as much per hour and works only half the hours. That would be so great :)

Good luck my Friend!

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1 hour ago, supremeyingyang said:

You need a stable Income to maintain your Consumer-Life. Therefore you can't quit the Job UNLESS you have another Job at Hand. That's the Tragedy. You are subtly aware you have do what you are told to do EVEN if it is against your Values.

Some People are dead poor, this is not the Point, but a significant minority in Western Societies spends JUST TOO MUCH MONEY on Consumer Goods instead of achieving Ownership, which is the way out of Wage Slavery. After you are Free, you can still work in your 9 to 5, but then completely on your Terms. If someone wants you to violate your Values you can say 'No'.

Accurate. Most people spend too much on nice homes, cars, phones, gym memberships, eating out, even their college educations. Or they have children too early, before they're established financially.

You can be a multi-millionaire but if you're in a habit of constantly overspending on things you don't need you'll quickly lose that status.

1 hour ago, datamonster said:

I agree that this is one way out of it. I have a slightly different strategy though.

My strategy is this:

  1. Find a career you are passionate about
  2. Get really good at it
  3. Make yourself so valuable to a company that they can't easily replace you
  4. Demand whatever you want and they will happily give it

Of course, you can have side-hustles, invest your money and all that at the same time.

I've worked with numerous people who succeed at this. Some get more vacation. Some can basically come and go to work whenever they want. Some get a shit ton of money. Some get a nice car. Some get equity. And others later commit full-time to their side-hustles.

You can have almost anything you want as en employee, granted that you are really good and deliver, of course.

I think for most people, this approach is much more doable than entrepreneurship.

Yep that's a pretty good route. However you'll probably reach a salary cap at some point. It's unlikely that you'll break 200k a year this way unless you're a doctor, lawyer, etc working long, intensive hours (in which case you probably don't need to hear any of this lol).

The route I like is exactly this, but then use those skills to transition into contracting (and maybe keep a part-time job for stability). You can work with several clients at once and charge higher rates than you can charge an employer. If you're experienced, your efficiency will be high and you won't be working excessive hours. From there you can save and invest on a much grander scale, reaching early retirement as quickly as possible.

In general I would be careful relying on one company - Maybe they will give you anything you want, but the second someone as good as you comes along who can do it for cheaper, you're toast.

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6 minutes ago, smurf88 said:

Accurate. Most people spend too much on nice homes, cars, phones, gym memberships, eating out, even their college educations. Or they have children too early, before they're established financially.

You can be a multi-millionaire but if you're in a habit of constantly overspending on things you don't need you'll quickly lose that status.

Yep that's a pretty good route. However you'll probably reach a salary cap at some point. It's unlikely that you'll break 200k a year this way unless you're a doctor, lawyer, etc working long, intensive hours (in which case you probably don't need to hear any of this lol).

The route I like is exactly this, but then use those skills to transition into contracting (and maybe keep a part-time job for stability). You can work with several clients at once and charge higher rates than you can charge an employer. If you're experienced, your efficiency will be high and you won't be working excessive hours. From there you can save and invest on a much grander scale, reaching early retirement as quickly as possible.

In general I would be careful relying on one company - Maybe they will give you anything you want, but the second someone as good as you comes along who can do it for cheaper, you're toast.

Yep, you're right. This is the downside of my approach.

I like the solution you propose. Diversify, have a side-hustle, invest, transition to contracting.

All of this is increases the upside and reduces risk.


Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. But teach a fish to catch and eat a man and you have really accomplished something. - Buddha

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2 minutes ago, smurf88 said:

You can be a multi-millionaire but if you're in a habit of constantly overspending on things you don't need you'll quickly lose that status.

Word. We think alike.

2 minutes ago, smurf88 said:

Yep that's a pretty good route. However you'll probably reach a salary cap at some point. It's unlikely that you'll break 200k a year this way unless you're a doctor, lawyer, etc working long, intensive hours (in which case you probably don't need to hear any of this lol).

I'm cool with way less, because you have to work crippling long hours to get there and then you have to work even more crippling long hours to yield. After Years you can't stop working or have even forget what to do outside work. That's not for everyone.

4 minutes ago, smurf88 said:

In general I would be careful relying on one company - Maybe they will give you anything you want, but the second someone as good as you comes along who can do it for cheaper, you're toast.

Yup, I thought about that as well. I saw that in my fathers career and in my own field: companies don't care about us so why should we do more than they? It's just as it is

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@supremeyingyang maybe i overestimate how much i can save, 30k is probably more realistic because my expenses are going to change and i won't be so frugal. 

Thank you :) i wish you the best

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@BlackMaze It's appreciated!

 

12 minutes ago, BlackMaze said:

@supremeyingyang maybe i overestimate how much i can save, 30k is probably more realistic because my expenses are going to change and i won't be so frugal.

Moderation is the best, but really hard to maintain. We have to enjoy life, right? BTW: If you would save 30k you were still probably better than 80% of the people in a comparable position like yours in terms of saving.

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I'm starting to see how I use the idea of "escaping wage slavery" and "becoming my own boss" has hurt me more than helped me.

The main idea here is that you want to find something fulfilling and ambitious to do with your life. The more fulfilling and ambitious your job is to you, the better. This doesn't mean that anything less is worthless. There is a gradient. Some jobs are better than others.

At my job I feel comfortable, stable and happy. I choose to only work 4 days per week and have 3 days off. It has been amazing. In this phase of my life where I am working on myself (through meditation and therapy) this job is a good fit. Eventually I will get a job that pays more and has a bigger impact, but for now this works.

 

Something you might want to look at is your resistance to having a "wage slavery" type job. Why is it such a big deal in your mind? Not saying it is, but that is how I would frame it if it seemed to be. And what if you never escape wage slavery? If there is resistance to that possibility you know you are coming from desperation rather than inspiration.

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