Posted October 6, 2020 35 minutes ago, arlin said: But when the body dies, it realizes that is itself? Or before. There is really no body or before. 35 minutes ago, arlin said: Or is this something that can be done only when you are alive? Since in death there is no one to have that realization. There is no one truly alive or dead, there is just God. But God can trick itself so it can discover itself again over and over. 35 minutes ago, arlin said: But how can i be sure that everything is at all? Maybe it isn't. Awaken. Wisdom. Truth. Love. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 6, 2020 Consciousness is nothing. Nothing is real. You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 6, 2020 The first mistake that's made in describing consciousness is calling it consciousness and assigning certain meaning to it. People who are interested in non-duality are not interested in realizing what consciousness is. Instead, what their nature is. Now the closest word that can describe the all knowing is consciousness or god. Use words as a bridge, not as a destination. No words that exist can describe what truly is. Not even the word consciousness. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 6, 2020 1 hour ago, arlin said: But then what is consciousness? Great question. We can describe "consciousness" many different ways. Each way has value. When I see someone use the term "consciousness", I don't assume I know the meaning they are giving it. I try to understand their context and meaning. This takes a fluid mind that doesn't get snagged or seek solid grounding. 1 hour ago, arlin said: Why do you keep saying that the point of life is for consciousness to become aware of itself when this implies separation? I've never said that. Sounds like a fun exploration though. 1 hour ago, arlin said: Wouldn't it be better if we said that all there is is the wall? Because it wouldn't make any difference. Actually in a way it would be more correct because consciousness implies to be conscious of and so separation. Sure, we can say all there is the wall. We can create a construct of a wall that is separate from the floor, ceiling, trees, clouds etc. and call it a "wall". We can also see that the "wall" is inter-connected to all things and call the inter-connectivity of everything the "wall". I'm cool with either definition. When I contracted into ideas of separation, I zoom into the thing in question such as a separate wall. I ask where exactly does the wall start and end? The mind may say "Duh!! It starts at the floor and ends at the ceiling!!". Yet the question is where does it start and end exactly. If we zoom into the "start" of the wall, the floor and ceiling are in contact with each other. If we zoom in even more, there are a bunch of atoms zooming around and we can't tell which atoms are "floor" or "wall". 1 hour ago, arlin said: But even if you say the point of life is for reality to become aware of itself this is still separation. I don't say that is the point of life. Sounds like a fun adventure though. 1 hour ago, arlin said: Also, becoming aware and conscious implies knowing. And this is not about knowing... To me, it seems like you are digging deep enough that relative meanings of words becomes an issue. Words are limited, there is much more. You might be interested in investigating word and symbolic relativity. I recently watched a Patterson video about how words don't have objective definitions. I think he uses logic well to explain relativity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 7, 2020 Cogito Ergo Sum = Experience therefore Existence Do that practice, and you will realize that consciousness is the only thing that can be known to exist. Start to doubt everything, and realize that you cannot deny that experience is happening. Doubt cannot exist without consciousness because everything that exists is in consciousness. Consciousness is an incorrigible truth, meaning that even if everything you experience is an illusion, the fact that you are experience an illusion is True. All Teachers and Teachings are delusion. You have all the answers within you. The first step on the journey to Enlightenment is questioning all the beliefs and teachings you have ever received. Teachers/Teachings are a distraction/maya at the highest level. There comes a point where you need to trust in your own innate knowledge and derive your own insights into the nature of reality. Teachers make a living and lifestyle of selling you water by the river. You don’t need them. All you need is an insatiable desire for truth and then seriously contemplate reality and uncover all that is false. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 7, 2020 No mind no body no beginning no end Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 7, 2020 10 hours ago, Leo Gura said: Consciousness is nothing. Nothing is real. 11 hours ago, Inliytened1 said: 11 hours ago, Inliytened1 said: Yes. @Leo Gura when you say nothing is real, you mean this is nothing being real? How do you know that is "being". Because this is the word used usually. How do you know this is not-being at all. And literally nothing exists? 10 hours ago, Inliytened1 said: Awaken. "i" have had a realization that im void and arlin is just a character and doesn't really exist. If this is what you call awakening, then that's what happend. But what that showed me @r0ckyreed is that i can't trust anything. I feel like i don't have a base in which to say what this is. I feel like absolutely nothing is real, there are no answers and i, as well as other people are completely imaginary in my mind... This does not mean that i can't have friends or relationships. Or that the body doesn't need closeness with others. But at the same time i know they don't exist.I feel like i can't know anything... I just don't know where to go from here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, arlin said: when you say nothing is real, you mean this is nothing being real? How do you know that is "being". Because this is the word used usually. How do you know this is not-being at all. And literally nothing exists? What Leo is referring to when he says Nothing is real, he is stating what there is a "No-Thing." It's not a thing. By being nothing it is able to create everything. If it already had objective qualities, it would limit itself. Try to imagine this - You (the Universe) is the basically the Space. And by being Space, your are able to make room for all objects that exists, including thoughts and feelings. Now you can't define the nature of space, although you can call it a box within which everything exists but how do you know where the boundaries are. There is no such thing as not-being. Being means what already exists. Since we believe that birth and death is true phenomenon, it feels that a thing is born into existence and when it dies, it disappears from existence. But, this is not true. For example, when a car is manufactured and presented to you, you can say that the car exists, but truly the car doesn't exist. It's the concept of car that exists. What truly exists is the materials used to make the car, which will continue to exist even after the car is scrapped and removed from "existence." It is the same with everything, including human beings. 14 minutes ago, arlin said: "i" have had a realization that im void and arlin is just a character and doesn't really exist. If this is what you call awakening, then that's what happend. It's a good start, continue probing into it more. There's more to discover. 15 minutes ago, arlin said: But what that showed me @r0ckyreed is that i can't trust anything. A legitimate awakening usually involves the realization that you are not your ego but the whole universe, which includes everyone that you trust and don't trust. Therefore, true trust emerges even in most untrustworthy situations. 16 minutes ago, arlin said: I just don't know where to go from here. You are exactly where you need to be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 7, 2020 11 hours ago, Leo Gura said: Consciousness is nothing. Nothing is real. 13 hours ago, Inliytened1 said: 13 hours ago, Inliytened1 said: Yes. @Leo Gura 12 hours ago, Inliytened1 said: Awaken. 1 hour ago, VincentArogya said: A legitimate awakening usually involves the realization that you are not your ego but the whole universe, which includes everyone that you trust and don't trust. No. I have realized that im void but to me when i close the eyes the entire universe dissapears such as i doubt the existence of an actual objective universe... I think it's called solipsism but also i realize there i so one here. It's void. So i don't know what to call it.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 7, 2020 9 minutes ago, arlin said: No. I have realized that im void but to me when i close the eyes the entire universe dissapears such as i doubt the existence of an actual objective universe... I think it's called solipsism but also i realize there i so one here. It's void. So i don't know what to call it.... Well, yes. There is no one inside the body taking control of it. It is empty. It is void. However, there is more to realize. You can realize that you are the void within which everything exists. Such a realization can be overwhelmingly liberating. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 7, 2020 1 hour ago, arlin said: @Leo Gura when you say nothing is real, you mean this is nothing being real? How do you know that is "being". Because this is the word used usually. How do you know this is not-being at all. And literally nothing exists? You're getting lost in dualities. There is only ONE thing. Here it is. There is no such thing as not-being. What you call not-being is just being without form. That does not make being non-existent. It just makes it formless. Consciousness can take on many forms, or it can take no form at all. When it takes no form at all, it is still consciousness. You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 7, 2020 16 minutes ago, arlin said: No. I have realized that im void but to me when i close the eyes the entire universe dissapears such as i doubt the existence of an actual objective universe... I think it's called solipsism but also i realize there i so one here. It's void. So i don't know what to call it... "The fact that Consciousness only experiences itself through one mind is a belief held by one mind! There is no evidence for it. This is called solipsism. Non-duality states there is only Consciousness. Solipsism states there is only the content of our own mind. These two statements may appear to be similar but in fact they are poles apart. The former is the source of sanity, the latter insanity." Defs not solipsism, solipsism is basically egocentricity to the max. Yours and @VincentArogya's insight is basically the same, just a different lens. Everyone experiences non-duality differently. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 7, 2020 @VincentArogya allright, thank you. What about the part of an objectice reality and solipsism? 3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: You're getting lost in dualities. There is only ONE thing. Here it is. There is no such thing as not-being. Yes there is only this, whatever it is. And maybe when you say being is just a word that points to it (being would imply not being so getting lost in dualities) . I intend to do psychedelics in the future to contemplate this by myself, even if i feel that i can't trust myself to know anything... In your experience what should a newbie start with? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 7, 2020 19 hours ago, arlin said: It came to my mind lately. Consciousness by definition is "to be conscious of", that implies a subject object experience. But non duality says this is an illusion. It is not real.. How is consciousness real if there is no separation? Doesn't consciousness imply separation? (to be conscious of?) Then you say: "No but, the work we are doing here is consciousness realizing itself, becoming more conscious of itself". You see, this implies another subject-object experience but this time, you make it seem like something real justifying that it is happening within itself. Isn't this separation trying to overcome separation? Isn't this the answer to why you will never reach an end to this work? Seems like there isn't any consciousness then. It might be the illusion. If you say "all there is is consciousness", It doesn't point to the fact that there is no actual real separation. (consciousness= to be conscious of= subject-object). You say nothing is real, but consciousness is. so this gives the ego a sense of safety and knowing (thereby falling straight into the illusion) . But you can't use more knowing to talk about unknowing. It's a loop you can't escape from no matter how much of "god" you realize... What do you think about that? Thanks. Trying to find of that what you are, doesn’t come from questions or answers. Questioning and trying to find answers can easily deceive you and put you in circuitous way. And you might can never get out. Go direct! You cant know yourself, just be, already it. Peace! "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, arlin said: What about the part of an objectice reality and solipsism? Solipsism is a belief system. It's an apathic view of the world. Even going with the general definition of Solipsism, the definition states that it is "a theory holding that the self can know nothing but its own modifications and that the self is the only existent thing." But, the problem is within the definition itself and it is the skewed view of the self. Your self isn't just your body but the entire cosmos and you can become aware of it. So, once your sense of self expands to encompass the entire cosmos, you may still look at the world, which is yourself through the lens of Solipsism but with positive feelings. Speaking of objective reality, there is no difference between objective reality and nothingness. In your words, the Void exists as objective reality. I feel that it is an important realization to be had. Discussing non-duality is very paradoxical and it can leave you even more confused than what you began with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 7, 2020 34 minutes ago, arlin said: In your experience what should a newbie start with? To be radically honest with oneself and to be comfortable in acknowledging that he doesn't know anything. And of course, truly desire to know what this is all about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 7, 2020 12 minutes ago, VincentArogya said: Speaking of objective reality, there is no difference between objective reality and nothingness. In your words, the Void exists as objective reality @VincentArogya@VincentArogya yes this is what i meant. That the objective reality is nothing but then there is a tendency to say that it is non-existence. But i guess im getting lost in words. 14 minutes ago, VincentArogya said: Your self isn't just your body but the entire cosmos and you can become aware of it. How? @VincentArogya 3 minutes ago, VincentArogya said: To be radically honest with oneself and to be comfortable in acknowledging that he doesn't know anything. And of course, truly desire to know what this is all about. I feel in at this place. But i was referring to psychedelics. Which one do i start with and why. 46 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 7, 2020 14 minutes ago, arlin said: Your self isn't just your body but the entire cosmos and you can become aware of it. This cannot be explained or transmitted through words (in some cases it can be). When you awaken, your connection with the cosmos will become apparent. You are already connected to the cosmos but simply unaware. 15 minutes ago, arlin said: But i was referring to psychedelics. Which one do i start with and why. I haven't tried psychedelics. I didn't even have to meditate or contemplate to awaken. It just happened out of the blue. But, I have heard that psychedelics can help. @Leo Gura should be able to help. 21 minutes ago, arlin said: @VincentArogya yes this is what i meant. That the objective reality is nothing but then there is a tendency to say that it is non-existence. But i guess im getting lost in words. All you see around you is existence. Have you ever experienced non-existence? Non-existence is a mental concept. It does not truly exist. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 7, 2020 3 hours ago, arlin said: can't trust anything. I feel like i don't have a base in which to say what this is. I feel like absolutely nothing is real, there are no answers and i, as well as other people are completely imaginary in my mind... This does not mean that i can't have friends or relationships. Or that the body doesn't need closeness with others. But at the same time i know they don't exist.I feel like i can't know anything... I just don't know where to go from here. What does unreal mean without the real? "life is not a problem to be solved ..its a mystery to be lived " -Osho Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 7, 2020 When you use any kind of langage, it is naturally dualistic. Langage ist what we created to explain experience and communicate what we want to each other (and by each other I mean everything). That implies two experiences. So in other words, as long as you speak, write, or even use body langage, you can never communicate consciousness. And yes consciousness is an arbitrary word I just used to describe what you (oops I (oops ...) did it again) are. ? God is love Whoever lives in love lives in God And God in them Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
