President Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

[Consept]

@Danioover9000 the issue is not really the draft dodging, it's the fact that others are judged as losers for dying in war but he avoided the war altogether.

 

[Parththakkar12]

22 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

 

I'm confused. Wasn't Trump the guy who was screaming a few years ago about how much he was going to do this and that for veterans?

 

Politicians don't have good memories.

[Opo]

1 hour ago, Roy said:

What's wrong with draft dodging? 

Nothing on it's own.

I am anti war so I would try to get out, but when you preach how you love your country, troops, and present yourself as a strong leader but then run and hide at the first sign of danger, you are being hypocritical. 

[Danioover9000]

@Consept

47 minutes ago, Consept said:

@Danioover9000 the issue is not really the draft dodging, it's the fact that others are judged as losers for dying in war but he avoided the war altogether.

 

   Yes I agree that's not good on his part and I do see the hypocrisy, but I went off topic at Leo's contraction of boiling down Donald Trump's evil as one singular action, which can be an issue when we falsely generalize to another person. If I saw you push away a child, with this contracted mentality I could call you an evil person for harming a child. However, I learn more later that you pushed the child away from an oncoming motorcycle, and intentionally sent him to a grassy area than one with concrete. Do I still come away from that situation maintaining my label of you, from one single action?

   I don't need to  defend Trump here because to me silence is golden, and Trump publicly calling dead soldiers losers is a bit too far instead of keeping his mouth shut. I also think Trump's mistakes is his to defend alone and unfortunately supporters are backed into the corner even more.

   It's just the false conflation that draft dodging is every evil person characteristic is not cool. Mohammad Ally draft dodged and stood his ground at the face of authority, and indirectly inspired others, for better or worse, to uphold themselves. Nikola Tesla contributed to the world as an amazing engineer, yet before he came to America, he had to draft dodge because of his health, and with the help of his father he went to the hills and rejuvenated some of his body that way.

   And I agree that this is my problem as I'm the one triggered because I love history, geniuses and hate lazy conflation making, so my observation hopefully will inspire other users to carefully type.

Edited September 4, 2020 by Danioover9000

[Preety_India]

@Etherial Cat

Then I must say that he raises his middle finger quite tremendously and very bigly 

 

[Lyubov]

3 hours ago, Roy said:

What's wrong with draft dodging? Especially for a war as pointless as Vietnam was?

I mean there are a lot things to grill Trump on for being a POS but I don't think this is one of them lol.

 I also think Trump draft dodging is the least of it. I would dodge too, not even on principle but just to protect my own life. It's funny though how disconnected his followers are.

Edited September 4, 2020 by Lyubov

[Milos Uzelac]

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Edited September 5, 2020 by Milos Uzelac

[Milos Uzelac]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

His draft dodging tells you everything you need to know about the kind of guy Trump is.

The suckers are this supporters who believe he gives one shit about them or America.

The influential historian, who specialized in American history, and social critic, the late Christopher Lasch, in his 1996. posthumously published book ,,The Revolt of the Elites and the Betrayal of Democracy'' wrote that there was a new elite emerging in American society in the 1980's and 1990's in American society, that Trump given his familial background and livelihood revenues was a part of and still is, that was so detached in the way's they earn their income, in which social circles they move and interact with and in where they live and how they live from ordinary Americans that Lasch called them the cerebral aristocracy of the contemporary globalized world and wrote how they live lives so detached from regular people who live in the same country as them, that they interact and socialize only, on a deeper level, with the members of the same group as them and with international elite in other countries in limited geographical pockets and exclusive social events, that they have become so detached and wilfully oblivious to the national decay and collapse taking place in their own countries, and have at this point internalized in them as part of a normal course of happenings within the country they inhabit, there are bad times and there are good times, while not being affected it by it all themselves.

Quotes from the book:

,, The child of a materially wealthy civilization, like a child of any nouveau riche, is almost always spoilt, immodest and shameless.''

,, Their motto maximum pleasure, minimum responsibility, has brought about a demographic decline of the countries they live in.''

,, Patriotism, certainly does not accompany a high position on the scale of their values and virtues. So the following question is asked: Do they even consider themselves as other Americans, deep down? "

,, They are not on the side of their own societies, since they  fundamentally don't know it, they are on the side of global structures and cliques, in which circles they spend most of their active lives."

I think this a good description from what part American society Trump comes from, about what shaped his character and view of other people that are not a part of the same class in society as he is.

Edited September 5, 2020 by Milos Uzelac

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Roy said:

What's wrong with draft dodging?

Trump wasn't some hippie contentious objector. He was just too selfish to service his country.

Shunyamurti was draft dodger. But there is a big difference between saying, "I will not fight an unjust war and protest against it's injustice" vs "I don't want to fight this war because I would rather have sex at nightclubs and make money back home".

I can't believe I have to spell this out to you.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Milos Uzelac said:

The influential historian, who specialized in American history, and social critic, the late Christopher Lasch, in his 1996. posthumously published book ,,The Revolt of the Elites and the Betrayal of Democracy'' wrote that there was a new elite emerging in American society in the 1980's and 1990's in American society, that Trump given his familial background and livelihood revenues was a part of and still is, that was so detached in the way's they earn their income, in which social circles they move and interact with and in where they live and how they live from ordinary Americans that Lasch called them the cerebral aristocracy of the contemporary globalized world and wrote how they live lives so detached from regular people who live in the same country as them, that they interact and socialize only, on a deeper level, with the members of the same group as them and with international elite in other countries in limited geographical pockets and exclusive social events, that they have become so detached and wilfully oblivious to the national decay and collapse taking place in their own countries, and have at this point internalized in them as part of a normal course of happenings within the country they inhabit, there are bad times and there are good times, while not being affected it by it all themselves.

Quotes from the book:

,, The child of a materially wealthy civilization, like a child of any nouveau riche, is almost always spoilt, immodest and shameless.''

,, Their motto maximum pleasure, minimum responsibility, has brought about a demographic decline of the countries they live in.''

,, Patriotism, certainly does not accompany a high position on the scale of their values and virtues. So the following question is asked: Do they even consider themselves as other Americans, deep down? "

,, They are not on the side of their own societies, since they  fundamentally don't know it, they are on the side of global structures and cliques, in which circles they spend most of their active lives."

I think this a good description from what part American society Trump comes from, about what shaped his character and view of other people that are not a part of the same class in society as he is.

You have to be careful when framing global worldviews as some sort of evil.

The above things you quoted are a basic trend of moving from stage Blue or Orange to Green. You develop a more global perspective.

But that isn't even Trump's problem. Trump's problem is far below that of being some neoliberal elite. It's too heartless, narcissistic, and ignorant to be an effective neoliberal globalist type.

[Lyubov]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Trump wasn't some hippie contentious objector. He was just too selfish to service his country.

Shunyamurti was draft dodger. But there is a big difference between saying, "I will not fight an unjust war and protest against it's injustice" vs "I don't want to fight this war because I would rather have sex at nightclubs and make money back home".

I can't believe I have to spell this out to you.

yeah their quality of dodging is different but I think every person has a right to not partake in a war regardless of how they otherwise choose to spend their time... but I suppose in Trump's case he would like to spend that time starting a war with Iran if he could so uh I'm now conflicted and confused 

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

I think every person has a right to not partake in a war

That's precisely false.

You can't refuse the draft out of narcissism.

There is no such right as the right to ignore a war your country is engaged in.

[Lyubov]

Eh, I don't know. You have a point but it isn't well supported if it's put into context of the war he dodged. The Vietnam war was a travesty. I would feel otherwise if he dodged a war of defending off another country's conquest. 

Edited September 5, 2020 by Lyubov

[Milos Uzelac]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

You have to be careful when framing global worldviews as some sort of evil.

The above things you quoted are a basic trend of moving from stage Blue or Orange to Green. You develop a more global perspective.

But that isn't even Trump's problem. Trump's problem is far below that of being some neoliberal elite. It's too heartless, narcissistic, and ignorant to be an effective neoliberal globalist type.

I admit, I have not invested much time researching and developing my knowledge and understanding of SD theory as of late and I haven't efficiently used till now, to understand how it relates to and explains the connections between radical changes in social structures and subsequent changes in value and normative systems of a particular society, and how if that society is very influential on the world stage, it exactly translates to changes on a global level and in other societies that are connected to it and influenced by that globally dominant and influential society or bloc of societies. I planned on rewatching some episodes and taking notes when I finish some of the next exam commitments and plans.

Edited September 5, 2020 by Milos Uzelac

[Leo Gura]

47 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

Eh, I don't know. You have a point but it isn't well supported if it's put into context of the war he dodged. The Vietnam war was a travesty. I would feel otherwise if he dodged a war of defending off another country's conquest. 

The context of this conversation was Trump's character.

You get a sense for a person's character by looking at their actions and motivations.

[Milos Uzelac]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Trump's problem is far below that of being some neoliberal elite. It's too heartless, narcissistic, and ignorant to be an effective neoliberal globalist type.

However I still have an inclination to view him and his family when I hear about them on some news outlets as part of a an aristocratic decadent* (as in only mostly having the material benefits justification for that status, and not do much in terms of quality, talent and ability) elite in U. S. completely socially and psychological detached from most Americans lives, fates and thoughts. 

Edited September 5, 2020 by Milos Uzelac

[purerogue]

Can't see where he said it, it is people debating that he said it, but from videos I saw it was just debate he said it and one who included videos  was hitting me more like this, we call people who got captured, injured war heroes, but they got the praise for being injured and captured, for me personally hero stands for accomplishment , not just participating and getting in situations like this. 

I might be wrong , just come at me!  

Edited September 5, 2020 by purerogue

[Opo]

Durr free speech durr.