What do we think of Apple products?

[smurf88]

For software development purposes, MacOS is very close to Linux. Personally I like it better simply because of the fact that Apple is a for-profit company, which comes with nice things like high DPI support, great UX/UI design and support for any modern programming or video/photo/audio editing applications.

It's worth repeating that high DPI support for MacOS is light-years ahead of both Linux and Windows. If you have a 4k or above display then it's a much better experience.

Windows is the best for graphic-intensive applications like games or video editing, and is more cost-effective than MacOS, but the downside is it's far worse for anything involving a terminal.

Edited August 16, 2020 by smurf88

[Anderz]

Apple is at the moment valued at almost two trillion dollars. That seems incredibly overvalued to me. Trump's ban of Huawei only weakens TSMC, the Taiwanese manufacturer of Apple's microchips. Apple is a so-called fabless developer of microchips which means they can't even manufacture their own microchips. And Apple's products seem to get more and more outdated. For example Huawei launched its foldable phone Mate X in 2019 and Apple still hasn't anything near that level of technology.

Now there is a belief that Trump has dealt a deadly blow to Huawei:

Quote

"Hong Kong (CNN Business)The United States has cut off Huawei's access to vital, advanced computer chips, striking a deadly blow to the Chinese tech champion.

... "These broad restrictions on commercial chip sales will bring significant disruption to the US semiconductor industry," said John Neuffer, president and CEO of Semiconductor Industry Association, a trade group representing American chipmakers." - CNN Business, Aug 18, 2020

I doubt that China with over a trillion dollars spent on microchip research and development today is dependent on U.S. microchips. It's just that China waits with playing their strongest cards. Long-term planning. That's not something western tech companies can afford to do.

And as it says in the CNN article, it weakens the U.S. semiconductor industry. That's risky for Apple since China controls the entire Asian semiconductor industry! Well, that's my guess anyway. (Clarification: China unlikely "controls" Japan's tech industry for example but I do believe that indirectly they do through cooperation.)

Edited August 18, 2020 by Anderz

[DefinitelyNotARobot]

I use both Windows and Mac and I have to say that Mac is a pain in the ass. My business partner thought it would be a good idea to get us a Mac.

How wrong he was...

Here is how I see it:

Mac:

Easy to use. Definitely more intuitive than Windows. It's probably better for people who are not too good with computers/who just need to do simple things.

HOWEVER. It's sooo restrictive! It achieves being intuitive by restricting the amount of things you can do. And don't get me started on the lack of compatibility. I am a musician and I need quiet a lot of software, but 40% of the software I use isn't even available for Mac.

Windows: The polar opposite. Less intuitive, but also less restrictive. You can do so many different things in Windows! (Even though Windows 10 took a few steps back in my opinion) Also the best when it comes to compatibility.

But again if you just want to do simple office work Mac is probably your go-to. Still fucking overpriced though...

[hoodrow trillson]

Apple is amazing.  

All of their products are quality.  They're slow at releasing competitive features but it's because they wait until the technology can be used reliably without resorting to making the consumers pay as beta testers.  I haven't used windows in over 10 years now.  Once I realized I don't care about customization, constantly janitoring my computer/phones for viruses or malware and troubleshooting--I just got a MacBook that works flawlessly for many years.  Same with iPhone.

For me (and many) it's all about the software and hardware merging together seamlessly to make you forget that it's a piece of tech and it's more of a tool.  

Plus, it's also cool that Apple was basically the result of an LSD trip for Steve Jobs.  The man got the message and died delivering said message.  Awesome legacy IMO.

Edited August 18, 2020 by hoodrow trillson

[Anderz]

Apple's strength is the integration of all their products and ease of use. That's great. The problem is that Apple's products relatively seen are getting more costly. Ray Kurzweil has shown that the price/performance of information technology improves exponentially. Think halving the price each year for the same product with the same performance.

Ten years ago Apple indeed had an acceleration of price/performance. In recent years the opposite has happened and the trend for Apple's products is today the opposite and a slowing down instead of the acceleration predicted by Kurzweil. This means that Apple either needs to come up with a radically new kind of product(s) that puts them on the curve of the future or they will become the Zenith of the 21st century.

[Apparition of Jack]

@Anderz Apple has always been overpriced for the technology they provide, I honestly think 75% of Apple's "genius" is learning how to market technology as sexy and avant-garde rather than as something for nerds and bureaucrats, and hence being able to charge premium prices for their products. I don't want to diminish the real technological achievements made under them though, they clearly have technological innovation, but most of their success comes from marketing IMO.

[Anderz]

@Apparition of Jack Okay, yes but I think it's a combination. Easy to use high quality products with integration between them is also a key to Apple's success. Only clever marketing will be insufficient.

I learned recently that the valuation of companies like Apple is hugely connected to the brand. And that's too a kind of marketing. The big tech companies have become like bitcoin almost, haha, where the value is determined by "brand" more than mere performance. Another example is Tesla and someone said that Elon Musk can say anything, even that they will fail, and Tesla's stock value skyrockets.

[Apparition of Jack]

@Anderz Have you checked out Leo's video on marketing? It's really good. It explains how like 90% of our "true" ideas in ANY domain are actually just the result of marketing, lol.

Here's the link if you haven't seen it

 

[Anderz]

@Apparition of Jack I will take a look at the video. Apple has been massively successful when it comes to marketing. I don't know if they even need to run much ads and commercials. As a side note, the ads and commercials today, even on the internet are starting to get outdated. I think in a near future there will be a shift towards AI-driven marketing that will actually be able to show recommendations that users want to know about. Today ads are very much targeted but there is still an enormous potential for improving exact targeting.

[Anderz]

Also, notice how Huawei is now copying Apple in terms of integration of products. At least that's what some sources indicate. And it will be integration on steroids! Your car, smartwatch, phone, home, televisions, computers, payments online, payments offline, interaction with the government, interaction with companies and organizations, your city, workplace, restaurants, shops, sports arenas, shopping malls, travel and on and on, even your money if you live in China will be DCEP the new e-yuan already being tested, a digital currency that will be integrated into the entire system.

And that's only the beginning. In the next phase there will be connection to all kinds of things, the internet of things (IoT). The integration will span all the way from smartglasses to companies to banks to industry to governments. It's a totally new level of integration that Apple is unable to achieve because of how China already has high integration between the government and the private sector. In essence, China will steamroll over the western technologies and send them to the stone age strata where they soon will belong.

[Lyubov]

1 hour ago, Anderz said:

Also, notice how Huawei is now copying Apple in terms of integration of products. At least that's what some sources indicate. And it will be integration on steroids! Your car, smartwatch, phone, home, televisions, computers, payments online, payments offline, interaction with the government, interaction with companies and organizations, your city, workplace, restaurants, shops, sports arenas, shopping malls, travel and on and on, even your money if you live in China will be DCEP the new e-yuan already being tested, a digital currency that will be integrated into the entire system.

And that's only the beginning. In the next phase there will be connection to all kinds of things, the internet of things (IoT). The integration will span all the way from smartglasses to companies to banks to industry to governments. It's a totally new level of integration that Apple is unable to achieve because of how China already has high integration between the government and the private sector. In essence, China will steamroll over the western technologies and send them to the stone age strata where they soon will belong.

I mean... if you're talking about Huawei in China... yeah they will steamroll western tech. They have been for a while now and the iPhone has been dropping there in popularity even as a luxury product for years. It's a bit of a hot take if this goes much beyond there though. 

[Anderz]

@Lyubov Yes, most western democracies will reject such a large Chinese integration so I don't see China gong much further than in East Asia and maybe into some of the Belt and Road countries. What would be good for Apple, now with a lawsuit against them for their 30% cut of money and refusing to allow apps to use other payment systems is a global digital currency. I don't mean like Facebook's Libra, but an official currency issued by for example the IMF where individual countries have their own version and control, such as e-dollar, e-euro and so on. Then Apple and other western tech companies have a great change of competing with Chinese companies that use DCEP (e-yuan).

[Gidiot]

One of their higher ups said he wouldn’t put a touch screen on laptops because they are “fatiguing” lol

id get a mac if they had touch screens

[No Self]

This is a surprisingly interesting topic. I was genuinely surprised recently to learn that a credible study claimed that prospective partners are 76% more desirable if they flex having an iPhone.

On the surface, Apple has a number of things going for them, with excellent software integration, high performance CPUs and, back in the Jobs era, a history of popularising innovations.

However, they are also masters of psychological manipulation and extract huge sums of money out of people in a cult-like way. I have worked in the tech industry and Apple has a secret rule that prohibits shops from displaying Apple products directly alongside other brands. Apple cultists have to live in an alternative universe where other brands do not exist, hence new features do not exist until Apple 'invents' them. Considering many people who feel compelled to pay the 'Apple tax' are young or financially struggling, I view them as predatory and unethical. They also like to troll the public with notoriously overpriced products, such as their $1,000 monitor stand and feed off the controversy.

Also, their persistence of using the old Lightning cable is ecologically unethical, and the EU has called them out on it. The rest of the industry has moved towards a single charging cable for all mainstream devices, yet Apple users need to use a different cable for an iPhone or base iPad compared to the USB-C cable for a Macbook, iPad Pro, etc. But who needs ethics when you are corporation worth more than a lot of small countries?

[ParanoidAndroid]

Does this question belong in this forum? Is it relevant? 

[No Self]

8 hours ago, ParanoidAndroid said:

Does this question belong in this forum? Is it relevant? 

You live up to your name well!

In my opinion, this is a very relevant question. Not the fact that Apple make quality, premium devices, but the fact that people, particularly schoolchildren in some areas, feel like they will be ostracized and rejected by society if they fail to buy Apple products. And apparently it affects people's attractiveness in dating as I mentioned above. I'm genuinely trying to figure this out as I've never seen anything like it in my life.

Imagine if it were socially unacceptable to drive a car that is not a Mercedes-Benz? 

2 hours ago, Mikael89 said:

Apple products are assembled in China, that's no good.

You might find that just about everything is made in China. Though production is ramping up in India and other places.

[Osaid]

Apple is amazing at marketing. They were exposed for slowing down older phones and everyone seems to have forgotten about it.

I still have my 6 year old Samsung S5 which surprisingly works fine.

[No Self]

1 minute ago, Osaid said:

Apple is amazing at marketing. They were exposed for slowing down older phones and everyone seems to have forgotten about it.

There have been countless major controversies. There was 'Bendgate', there was 'You're holding it wrong', there was listening to conversations, there was $700 wheels... and it only ever makes the company stronger. A bit like the Trump supporter phenomenon, there comes a point where no amount of controversy or infamy makes any difference because it is about having a sense of belonging to the exclusive in-group?

(Note: no disrespect to anyone who uses Apple products. I want to be clear on that.)

[hoodrow trillson]

they’re the only company that has complete control of their hardware and software and successfully merges it together without fragmentation.

Do not underestimate how hard it is to do that!  
 

Their MacBooks are their weakest link now but that’s about to change because they’re going to begin to use their in-house CPUs/GPUs and drop Intel chips.

 

[mullerbar]

I think Apple is a pretty good company and their products are very high quality. If you choose a long-term technique for yourself, then definitely choose Apple. My first laptop was also of this brand. If you try, you can turn it on even now! Every time I am surprised at the inattentiveness of their gadgets. The new iPhone is very cool!In general, it is interesting to watch the progress, I usually check the manuals for the technique that is interesting.

Edited October 17, 2020 by mullerbar