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Peter Ralston on Psychedelics in more detail

163 posts in this topic

11 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

Psychedelics are amazing

but they are also artificial 

Natural vs Artificial is your creation. Meditation can also be considered artificial. Eating food is artificial. Breathing in oxygen is artificial. . . 

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5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

You also have to consider that people like Ralston were likely born with an abnormally high amount of natural psychedelic neurotransmitters.

Not everyone has the same neurotransmitters in their brain just like how not everyone has the same level of testosterone. It's foolish to expect that you can out-lift someone with a natural testosterone level of 2000.

 

Assuming neurotransmitters are involved seems like a scientific explanation rather than mystical 

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5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

He told me that he did 1000ug of LSD once. He couldn't tell if it was day or night outside. LOL

Me thinks he did too much ;)

I think the problem with Ralston is that he's just not wired like a normal human. He's autistic like. Maybe he's incapable of feeling the Love. Although I doubt it. My money's on him playing coy.

Because he's a clever fuck and he likes to play Zen games.

This is very simple. He comes out of  Zen.

Somebody might argue that psychedelic states are much more powerful than Zen meditation

That may or may not be true but from the Zen perceptive  psychedelic states are makyō - delusions and relates to the concept of asava elsewhere in Buddhism

In Zen they also do not talk about love. In Zen they value compassion and kindness and regard love as a form of attachment which leads to suffering.

They may or may not be wrong about that 

But the argument is not just with Ralston.  It's with Buddhism as a whole.

Drinking alcohol or taking any kind of mind altering chemical violates Noble Eightfold Path,   although some Zen monks discretely bend rules 

Edited by Nak Khid

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33 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

Natural vs Artificial is your creation. Meditation can also be considered artificial. Eating food is artificial. Breathing in oxygen is artificial. . . 

artificial in the sense that someone takes a chemical, measures it and than puts it into their bloodstream 

rather than an ability that they have

- not talking about absolute definitions of the word and the fact that of any statement it's words can be dismantled 

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33 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

artificial in the sense that someone takes a chemical, measures it and than puts it into their bloodstream 

rather than an ability that they have

- not talking about absolute definitions of the word and the fact that of any statement it's words can be dismantled 

By that logic vitamins are artificial. 

It seems like an arbitrary definition of “artificial” to me since we are constantly ingesting chemicals from our environment that give us abilities we would otherwise lack. 

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26 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

This is very simple. He comes out of  Zen.

He would not agree with this statement 

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@Nak Khid think of it this way...in the realm of the relative we only have access to what is relative.  Yet it may be possible that certain things within the relative, ie. meditation and/or psychedelics, have the ability to open a portal to the Absolute.  It makes no rational sense.  

In quantum mechanics there is something called quantum tunneling where photons are able to somehow move through impossible barriers to reach their destinations, defying logic and classical mechanics.  


 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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3 hours ago, Display_Name said:

He would not agree with this statement 

Ralston spent thousands of hours in Zen mediation

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10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

He told me that he did 1000ug of LSD once. He couldn't tell if it was day or night outside. LOL

Me thinks he did too much ;)

I think the problem with Ralston is that he's just not wired like a normal human. He's autistic like. Maybe he's incapable of feeling the Love. Although I doubt it. My money's on him playing coy.

Because he's a clever fuck and he likes to play Zen games.

1000ug??! Damn, thats a dose and a half! I take back my presumptive comments then.

If I did 1000ug of LSD i'm not sure i'd ever come back. Did 150ug earlier in the year and descended into an egoless paranoid mania for 5 hours straight - not particularly pleasant or insightful. Even at that high of a dose I still question whether it can lead to the same sort of crystal clear God Infinity that 5-MeO provides. For me, LSD is quite messy and comes with a lot of unpleasant thought loops and strange twisting mental phenomena.


"Find what you love and let it kill you." - Charles Bukowski

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5 hours ago, Nak Khid said:

 

Psychedelics are amazing

but they are also artificial 

Yet at the highest 5-MeO peak state EVERY SINGLE duality, including the notion of 'artificial' and 'natural', dissolve into God Infinity. The notion of a natural or artificial awakening/enlightenment dissolves. The duality of psychedelic and natural awakening dissolves. It's really really fucking radical. 


"Find what you love and let it kill you." - Charles Bukowski

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4 minutes ago, Space said:

Yet at the highest 5-MeO peak state EVERY SINGLE duality, including the notion of 'artificial' and 'natural', dissolve into God Infinity. The notion of a natural or artificial awakening/enlightenment dissolves. The duality of psychedelic and natural awakening dissolves. It's really really fucking radical. 

that's very nice but what if you run out of paper towels? 

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1 minute ago, Nak Khid said:

that's very nice but what if you run out of paper towels? 

Damn, didn't think of that one!


"Find what you love and let it kill you." - Charles Bukowski

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I think this conversation is kinda silly cause it's plainly obvious psychadelics are super effective at growing consciousness and aiding in spiritual growth and realization. If anything it should be about how they are so powerful that they can be dangerous. One DMT trip altered me permanently and I still feel it a little today... I can meditate much deeper and have much more lucid dreams and psychadelic experience when waking up from sleep. Didn't have this before DMT. They def can leave your mind expanded more quickly than meditating for an hour a day daily. 

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7 minutes ago, Space said:

Yet at the highest 5-MeO peak state EVERY SINGLE duality, including the notion of 'artificial' and 'natural', dissolve into God Infinity. The notion of a natural or artificial awakening/enlightenment dissolves. The duality of psychedelic and natural awakening dissolves. It's really really fucking radical. 

It can be super hard to communicate to certain minds. The notion of “artificial” and “natural” don’t even exist. The notion of “real” vs “imagined” doesn’t exist. 

Coming back down, I’ve found it amazing to watch the mind kick back in and start creating constructs again.

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7 hours ago, Enlightenment said:

I guess you have never tried MDMA (you should IMO). MDMA is not really feeling of Love like on psychedelics but Empathy, insane crazy levels of empathy. MDMA is also not really a psychedelic, there is no psychedelic like headspace on MDMA.

I think this is why it's much better and safer for integration/healing work. I think the psychadelic headspace can really mess some people up if they are trying to heal PTSD. I've done MDMA a few times when I was in college and it is a gift. 

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8 hours ago, Enlightenment said:

I guess you have never tried MDMA (you should IMO). MDMA is not really feeling of Love like on psychedelics but Empathy, insane crazy levels of empathy. MDMA is also not really a psychedelic, there is no psychedelic like headspace on MDMA.

So if MDMA is the empathy type of love what type of love is induced by psychedelics? 

Also some people don't report feelings of love on 5 Meo but others do

Edited by Nak Khid

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13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

How would you know if you don't understand Love? Lol

Because I know what autism is, and I can feel what effect it has on raising consciousness. 

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56 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

Because I know what autism is, and I can feel what effect it has on raising consciousness. 

Autism is not a singular thing. It could refer to many different conditions and structures of mind.

It is not safe to assume that another's wiring is the same as yours. Just can you can feel loves doesn't mean that another can.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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29 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Autism is not a singular thing. It could refer to many different conditions and structures of mind.

Each of those conditions and structures have a commonality between autistic people. If there was no commonality, then calling something 'autism' would be a completely ineffective distinction to make. I understand autistic people extremely well, lots of them, even though their condition is different. 

 

32 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It is not safe to assume that another's wiring is the same as yours. Just can you can feel loves doesn't mean that another can.

I'm not trying to make a criminal law reform saying "autistic people shalt feel Love otherwise they be hanged!". Of course just because 1 autistic person can feel love doesn't mean another can. And its not necessarily because of autism, but could be because people have multiple mental conditions, different effects environmental factors, digestive system issues, etc that could affect consciousness. 

But besides, mental conditions are not a good predictor for determining someone's consciousness abilities and potential. There are spiritually talented people from all walks of life, with all sorts of mental conditions. Teal Swan is a mess and she's better than most people. There are people on here who are seriously fucked up, yet they are on here because they are better then average. And in my personal experience, your mental makeup doesn't really correlate to spiritual effectiveness. Desire for truth and environmental factors (how much suffering and stress your environment forces you through) are way better predictors. 

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11 hours ago, Lyubov said:

I've done MDMA a few times when I was in college and it is a gift. 

I've done it so many times that now I have permanent tolerance to it. If I ever get PTSD I would not be able to benefit from MDMA therapy most likely

11 hours ago, Nak Khid said:

So if MDMA is the empathy type of love what type of love is induced by psychedelics? 

Psychedelics for me feel more like existential love. I don't feel an urge to go out and help people. I would bee looking around and feeling all the objects are made out love or smth like this

11 hours ago, Nak Khid said:

Also some people don't report feelings of love on 5 Meo but others do

Yes, I actually feel much more love after the peak is over and afterglow begins


"Buddhism is for losers and those who will die one day."

                                                                                            -- Kenneth Folk

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