Does hell really exist?

[Frenk]

3 minutes ago, Artsu said:

 

There is hell, but it is temporary. When you pay for your sins* you go to heaven.

 

How did you get to this conclusion?

[Artsu]

5 minutes ago, Frenk said:

How did you get to this conclusion?

You can read about it on truthforallpeople.com.

As for determining whether what you read is true, that is for you to figure out.

[Frenk]

@Artsu thanks, i'll give it a look.

But when you also read about this:

https://www.oberf.org/per_a_ste.htm

and this:

https://www.oberf.org/phillip_l's_ste.htm

And this:

https://www.nderf.org/Experiences/1nichole_bd_nde.html,

,https://www.nderf.org/Experiences/1stephen_t_nde.html

https://www.nderf.org/Experiences/1paul_probable_nde.html (its long, you can read the 

'Is there anything else that you would like to add about your experience?' section which is at the bottom.

 

My point is when you read these and there are much more you can clearly see that there is no such as punishment by god. But the problem is not what are you going to believe, but what is true

Edited August 1, 2020 by Frenk

[Artsu]

4 minutes ago, Frenk said:

@Artsu thanks, i'll give it a look.

But when you also read about this:

https://www.oberf.org/per_a_ste.htm

and this:

https://www.oberf.org/per_a_ste.htm

And this:

https://www.nderf.org/Experiences/1nichole_bd_nde.html,

,https://www.nderf.org/Experiences/1stephen_t_nde.html

https://www.nderf.org/Experiences/1paul_probable_nde.html (its long, you can read the 

'Is there anything else that you would like to add about your experience?' section which is at the bottom.

 

My point is when you read these and there are much more you can clearly see that there is no such as punishment by god. But the problem is not what are you going to believe, but what is true

What do you mean that personal accounts can show there is no punishment by God?

Well, really we punish ourselves, though realisation of our sin.

I don't know if I'll read those articles, so whats the point you're getting at?

Of course God is love, and not hatred. Not all will go to hell, but only a few have no sins to pay for.

[Someone here]

@Artsu you realize that God is the first cause?  The "director" of this show? So If anyone deserves to go to hell it is God himself.. The real doer.! 

That is if you buy the notion of "sin" anyways

Edited August 1, 2020 by Someone here

[Frenk]

2 minutes ago, Artsu said:

What do you mean that personal accounts can show there is no punishment by God?

 

Im saying based on what these people have written here there is no punishment, of course i dont know if that is true or not, im merely givng you another alternative just like you did with you website that you showed me.

if they are true, it means that these people have 'crossed over', experienced 'afterlife', chose or were told to come back and they have shared their experience, which are wonderful for me.

Again, of course we do not know if they are true or not. Not these, not anything we can read.

[Artsu]

2 minutes ago, Frenk said:

Im saying based on what these people have written here there is no punishment, of course i dont know if that is true or not, im merely givng you another alternative just like you did with you website that you showed me.

if they are true, it means that these people have 'crossed over', experienced 'afterlife', chose or were told to come back and they have shared their experience, which are wonderful for me.

Again, of course we do not know if they are true or not. Not these, not anything we can read.

The accounts are probably basically true.

If these people didn't experience punishment, that doesn't mean no one will. I don't know if a major sinner experiences punishment in a NDE, but they experience it when they cross over. Some try to escape the punishment and go on doing evil. They might engage with earthlings in the form of a demon.

But yeah.. there is always consequence from sinning. When you turn from love you have turn back. When you take from someone you have to give to them.

I am not sure how hell works if you have the divine love. I think it is a fast track out of there.

[wavydude]

@Frenk 

I would say that your thoughts create your reality so when you constantly burden yourself with idea of hell it might become your reality in some way fear etc.

Next time you get into this way of thinking and fear of hell appears just say to yourself that hell is no palce for you and you trust God/ Jesus to take care of you and end your thought stream with that. I'm pretty sure it's gonna server you better than wondering about if hell exist and fueling that fear.

[Someone here]

22 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Artsu you realize that God is the first cause?  The "director" of this show? So If anyone deserves to go to hell it is God himself.. The real doer.! 

That is if you buy the notion of "sin" anyways

@Artsu so you have no answer to this. 

Alright 

 

[Artsu]

28 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Artsu you realize that God is the first cause?  The "director" of this show? So If anyone deserves to go to hell it is God himself.. The real doer.! 

That is if you buy the notion of "sin" anyways

God does not sin. People sin willingly by turning away from God and love and truth. If God cannot fall, he has no need to repent. God is the highest that we can know, and cannot be rightly condemned. Even "those in Christ" are free of condemnation.

Man fell, man must return.

Love is the law.

[traveler]

Nothing to be said about this. Hell is a concept, so it is real in that sense. That said, commenting on states that are unbeknownst to you is very unwise. There are infinite apparent possibilities, "hell" is one of them, but there is no solid place called "hell," it is an interpretation of how energy takes form.

An experience of separation is hell, but it is fortunately not really happening. But say that to the apparent person experiencing it.

[Someone here]

1 minute ago, Artsu said:

God does not sin. People sin willingly by turning away from God and love and truth. If God cannot fall, he has no need to repent. God is the highest that we can know, and cannot be rightly condemned. Even "those in Christ" are free of condemnation.

Man fell, man must return.

Love is the law.

All Christian beliefs based on bible stories that you have ZERO evidence for it.. let alone that it doesn't make any sense. 

And you didn't address my actual point in the slightest.. You just negated it without explaining how.. If everything is God's will.. Who is real "sinner" then? 

[Heart of Space]

9 hours ago, Frenk said:

I've been struggling with the idea of hell for several years. It is the main reason of my suffering, brings me high levels of fear. Even though deep down i know there is no such place my ego just wont get over the fact that it might exist and im doomed to it. I wanted to ask if someone who has had genuine experiences on psychedelics or nde's or any profound awakenings or afterlife experiences: Does hell exist? When i say hell i am only referring to the place of fire, not the mental state of separation from God

I relate to this.  One of my first great fears that I ever formed was of the Christian hell.  It sent me into a spiral of depression at a young age as I panicked in isolation thinking of friends I knew who weren't saved that were going to burn in hell for eternity.  I had no one to talk to about it, so the fear just festered. 

It's ok to be afraid of something, especially a concept like this.  But do not shy away from dealing and confronting your fear.  I think the more you understand how reality works the less you will fear things like this.  For one, hell is suppose to be pure infinite suffering.   But what is the nature of suffering?  Suffering only exists in contrast to not suffering.  So, ironically, if you existed in a state of only suffering, the suffering would become meaningless because it doesn't exist in contrast to 'not suffering.' 

The state of "only suffering" or "only not suffering"  would ultimately become the same thing, which is definition-less nothing.  Everything is nothing when relativity fades.   

That's why life is such a mixed bag, because such a range of experience is possible.  The greatest sadness in the universe only exists in the universe where the greatest happiness also exists.  They can't exist without each other.  It's why you fear hell so much in the first place.  Because hell is a representation of greater suffering in contrast to where you are now.  

Edited August 1, 2020 by Heart of Space

[Artsu]

4 minutes ago, Someone here said:

All Christian beliefs based on bible stories that you have ZERO evidence for it.. let alone that it doesn't make any sense. 

And you didn't address my actual point in the slightest.. You just negated it without explaining how.. If everything is God's will.. Who is real "sinner" then? 

Evidence aside, how doesn't it make sense?

I thought I answered your question sufficiently.

What do you mean that everything is God's will? Our wills are not God's will, but we can bring our will into alignment with God. God can change what we feel, do etc. But we have a free will to exercise as we choose.

When we choose to sin, we turn away from what is good. God does not turn away from what is good, only people do. We have this option due to our kind of freedom.

Is there anything I haven't answered? Can you be clearer about what kind of answer you want?

Edited August 1, 2020 by Artsu

[Someone here]

15 minutes ago, Artsu said:

Evidence aside

LOL that's the most important thing.  I could just say there is no hell just because!! And evidence aside!!  You claim something.. Where is your evidence? 

 

15 minutes ago, Artsu said:

how doesn't it make sense? 

Because it's the Christian ideology that is based on myths and fantasies about "the fall".. "the original sin"..etc.. None of that has the slightest evidence. 

 

15 minutes ago, Artsu said:

What do you mean that everything is God's will?

Exactly that.  When I raise my hand it's God who is the actual doer.  The whole.  The seperate individual self that you call "we" doesn't even exist to be the doer! 

 

15 minutes ago, Artsu said:

But we have a free will. 

Don't think of a pink elephant.. 

You did?  No free will

You didn't?  No free will! 

15 minutes ago, Artsu said:

When we choose to sin? 

What is "sin"?  

Edited August 1, 2020 by Someone here

[Roy]

Hell literally exists already here on Earth. Either your actions lead us closer to it or they don't.

[Artsu]

A brief comment on evidence:

Evidence is one way of arriving at and demonstrating truth - I'm not saying it isn't - but there are other ways.

Evidence means something like verification through information in the physical world. When talking about the spiritual world, evidence is thus insufficient.

Our evidence comes through those with spiritual gifts who can come into contact with the spiritual directly.

James E Padgett could access the spiritual. He was a medium, and channelled Jesus, amongst others. I believe what I read on truthforallpeople.com because it agrees with my own search for truth. I too speak to spirits and can access the spiritual, though I have much to learn.

[Artsu]

A note on free will: the notion of free will does not imply that everything is 100% free. Of course things can be predicted, according to laws for instance. All that is required is that some things come from free will.

So if your example was meant to disprove free will, you haven't actually made sense.

It's like saying there aren't any eagles in the room I'm in, so eagles don't exist.

You'll need to do better than that.

[Nak Khid]

10 hours ago, Frenk said:

I've been struggling with the idea of hell for several years. It is the main reason of my suffering, brings me high levels of fear. Even though deep down i know there is no such place my ego just wont get over the fact that it might exist and im doomed to it. I wanted to ask if someone who has had genuine experiences on psychedelics or nde's or any profound awakenings or afterlife experiences: Does hell exist? When i say hell i am only referring to the place of fire, not the mental state of separation from God

Do you think you are doing things now that are very sinful? 

And if you can humbly  repent and be forgiven then why worry about hell? 

[Artsu]

I have explained sin enough already by saying it is going against love.

It is a form of bad/evil, and error is another form, but the term sin is often used for evil intentions in general.

You can learn about the different sins from the 10 commandments, but it probably won't make complete sense. You probably don't know what adultery is for instance.