Green/Progressive/Liberal shadow too much? Conversation

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Heart of Space said:

No one person is all green, or all orange, or whatever.

And if you bothered to study Spiral Dynamics you would understand that SD doesn't claim that people fit in neat little categories. It specifically says that people are rainbow.

[Heart of Space]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

And if you bothered to study Spiral Dynamics you would understand that SD doesn't claim that people fit in neat little categories. It is specifically says that people are rainbow.

I don't know much about the study of spiral dynamics.  I just see how people have been using them and they are using it in an unhelpful way.  Consider it more of a criticism of the people using it rather than a criticism of spiral dynamics because I only have a surface level understanding of it.  

[Akemrelax]

5 hours ago, Dragon Liege said:

On one of his streams, he straw manned pagans and people who believe in astrology on one of his phone streams. Some people in his chat argued with him that many witches tend to be left leaning. There are right wing pagans for sure. That was probably one of his worst takes. I debated myself about making that a thread. He has toxic green in some areas and toxic orange in other areas.

That was one of his good takes.

He said research shows there is a correlation between superstitious people and racism. If you think the date you were born on determines your personality or being, then it’s really not too far fetched for you think skin colour is linked to someone’s essential being or personality. If they can make you believe date of birth and people’s essence are linked, then they can also make you believe race determines who people are. People who believe in astrology/horoscope aren’t thinking for themselves.

Yea, witches can be left-leaning, there are plenty of wackos who support the right causes for the wrong reasons.

Edited August 1, 2020 by Akemrelax

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

they are using it in an unhelpful way.

I would rather have people using it than not.

I don't see any political commentators who understand how to make Spiral distinctions and their analysis is very misguided as a result.

Spiral Dynamics gives people crucial distinctions which help them navigate an otherwise muddy and deceptive political landscape.

You got a problem with distinctions. Which is rather silly since our whole world operates on making distinctions. Good distinctions create mastery.

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Akemrelax said:

He said research shows there is a correlation between superstitious people and racism.

Anyone living hundreds of years ago was racist.

By paganism he's basically referring to stage Purple. Yeah, of course stage Purple is racist. Anything below Orange will be racists.

[Heart of Space]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

I would rather have people using it than not.

I don't see any political commentators who understand how to make Spiral distinctions and their analysis is very misguided as a result.

Spiral Dynamics gives people crucial distinctions which help them navigate an otherwise muddy and deceptive political landscape.

Yea, I think that's fair.  I like it as a map for the progression of human thought.  

Kind of recently I've seen some bad uses of it that made me feel bothered by how people were using it.  That's really the feeling I was expressing.  

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Heart of Space said:

Kind of recently I've seen some bad uses of it

It is a complex model which requires practice and trial and error to properly apply.

The trail and error is worth it.

[Lyubov]

I would really like some solid examples of cancel culture going too far. This has really become a buzzword with precious little to back it up. 

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

I would really like some solid examples of cancel culture going too far. This has really become a buzzword with precious little to back it up. 

Perhaps the best example I can think of is the forced resignation of Al Franken, who was otherwise a great senator.

[AtheisticNonduality]

@Leo Gura Better make sure Vaush doesn't get a hold of one of your wackier videos.

[Lyubov]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Perhaps the best example I can think of is the forced resignation of Al Franken, who was otherwise a great senator.

I remember that and it's a fair example but I think such incidents are more of an outlier than the noraml. Another example might be Aziz Ansari but he spoke on it and said if what happened made him and others more concious then he is glad it happened the way it did.

The only time I've seen large groups of people complaining about cancel culture going too far is on conservative social media as a dogwhistle buzzword for "I don't think that person who was caught on video verbally abusing someone with racist and abusive slurs should of been fired from their job."

 

[Akemrelax]

One really toxic example for green I could think of is hyperawareness of gender and race at my university.

Some people are suggesting mentioning your pronouns in emails. Some people have really created new jargon out of thin air which isn’t grounded in any physical or mental categories. We need categories of gender grounded in physical reality otherwise men can change their gender and walk into women’s changing rooms to spy on them. Now transgender people are fine but these other genders are not grounded in anything, they are just labels. 

These gender identities are more absurd than high school identities. How absurd would it be if I started asserting my “nerd” identity on everyone and said “nerds” are oppressed. Pretty sure that some people think this way already! Lol

The left needs to get it’s priorities straight, these issues are not really issues. 

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

large groups of people complaining about cancel culture going too far is on conservative social media

The right wing just uses cancel culture as a scapegoat/boogeyman because they are bereft of any substantive ideas for how to improve society.

When you have no good ideas, all you're left with is scapegoating others.

It's just an ego-trip.

[Forestluv]

@Lyubov One dynamic I find interesting is how being canceled in one subculture can lead to elevation in others. Colin Kaepernick had an enormous platform as an NFL star, yet he got de-platformed by conservatives and has not played in the NFL since 2016. But he has appeared in Nike advertisements, been honored by the ACLU and Amnesty International and reached an agreement with the Walt Disney Co. for a series about his life. He has been resurrected as a cultural hero and has new platforms. From a profit perspective, the NFL would be wise to get him playing in the NFL again. Kaepernick jersey sales would shatter records. 

[Akemrelax]

Noam Chomsky along with others signed an open letter against cancel culture. There is definitely a negative side to cancel culture. 

[remember]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Anyone living hundreds of years ago was racist.

By paganism he's basically referring to stage Purple. Yeah, of course stage Purple is racist. Anything below Orange will be racists.

recently you are spouting so much nonsense - or you just write off - but hey maybe you can make a career as a right wing populist because i don’t see much left ideals anymore at least truth is just an empty shell word. its kind of interesting how you use spirituality and psychology to psychologically abuse people and use codependents to support you - cancel culture would at least serve you right, but you are too deep in the abusive mud as if anyone would care. we are not yet able to even get a hold on abusive behavior from the right, how would anyone be resilient enough to make sense out of what’s going on on this platform.

this is so sick. how mad to believe this could be some kind of help to anyone - its all lies and a massively blown up sick abusive ego. 

nothing happens here - it’s just a psychological abuse machine driven by a perpetuum mobile - probably states subventionated, but at least infiltrated.

or maybe it just grew much too much over your head.

interesting isn’t it, i still wish you well - might be because that’s exactly what i‘m talking about. ah yeah, forgot purple is deeply racist anything below orange will be racist... you didn’t get that right, but i give you that you have a lot of purple toxicity, it’s not racism though.

 

Edited August 2, 2020 by remember

[Leo Gura]

@remember Banned

Be warned, I'm banned people who consistent post low-quality garbage here.

We are raising the quality standards for people to be on this forum.

[Apparition of Jack]

Deleted.

Edited August 2, 2020 by Apparition of Jack

[Leo Gura]

28 minutes ago, Apparition of Jack said:

cancel culture seen on Twitter and stuff as being akin to the Great Purges of the Soviet Union

Your comparison is simply absurd.

This is exactly the kind of bullshit that Jordan Peterson spreads.

It's a gross conflation of stage Red/Blue with Green.

While people like JP are complaining about Green boogeymen and scapegoats, people are dying from poverty, climate change, lack of healthcare, pandemic, racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc.

[Apparition of Jack]

@Leo Gura Yeah, I regretted putting that in there, I'll delete it now.

I suppose what I meant to say in more simple terms is that the progressive ego is simply under too much pressure right now and turning towards  unhealthy behaviour as a way of coping. Progressive causes have been hamstrung for too long that those who believe in them are getting desperate. This isn't to denigrate progressive causes at all though, ending racism, tackling neoliberalism insanity, tackling climate change, etc. are all absolutely necessary to creating a conscious, sane world.