Using Spiral Dynamics to Help Get Sex Offenders Punished?

[Parththakkar12]

33 minutes ago, Consciousone35 said:

A large part of the solution is to use Stage 2 thinking to help reform laws and engineer society to take it more seriously and perhaps even create a cultural meme where reporting on and exposing predators is seen as brave and honorable. Can you tell me how I am misunderstanding reality?

It is brave and honorable, no doubt about that. The problem though, is that the chances of your meme taking off aren't very high. Even if it does like #MeToo did, it'll not be received very well. I'll tell you why.

Courage and honor aren't really enough to excite people, to move them forward. It's very respectable and most people are decent enough to understand that. But, it isn't necessarily inspiring. Society gets inspired by high-achieving leaders who are able to give people a sense of direction, who do great things, who have a life purpose. Putting a bad guy behind bars isn't really a life purpose, it's not really positively motivated. It comes across more like an abuse victim fighting for her survival, which is kinda ordinary. Ordinary doesn't take off, you must stand out somehow.

The best case scenario in which you get a little bit of reaction, is if other abuse victims get inspired to share their stories like #MeToo. It can be helpful for people who've been through similar struggles to come together and support each other. But, the rest of society will feel sorry for them at best. The chances of someone else getting inspired to do something are pretty low, like what happened with #MeToo.

The emotions you're triggering are: Fear, Guilt, Shame, Embarrassment, Pity, Powerlessness, Hope (at best). Not inspiring emotions.

Memes also take off because of entertainment value, but that's simply not what we're doing here. (I hope not. The last thing we want is someone laughing at an abuse story.)

Edited July 28, 2020 by Parththakkar12

[Consciousone35]

1 hour ago, Parththakkar12 said:

It is brave and honorable, no doubt about that. The problem though, is that the chances of your meme taking off aren't very high. Even if it does like #MeToo did, it'll not be received very well. I'll tell you why.

Courage and honor aren't really enough to excite people, to move them forward. It's very respectable and most people are decent enough to understand that. But, it isn't necessarily inspiring. Society gets inspired by high-achieving leaders who are able to give people a sense of direction, who do great things, who have a life purpose. Putting a bad guy behind bars isn't really a life purpose, it's not really positively motivated. It comes across more like an abuse victim fighting for her survival, which is kinda ordinary. Ordinary doesn't take off, you must stand out somehow.

The best case scenario in which you get a little bit of reaction, is if other abuse victims get inspired to share their stories like #MeToo. It can be helpful for people who've been through similar struggles to come together and support each other. But, the rest of society will feel sorry for them at best. The chances of someone else getting inspired to do something are pretty low, like what happened with #MeToo.

The emotions you're triggering are: Fear, Guilt, Shame, Embarrassment, Pity, Powerlessness, Hope (at best). Not inspiring emotions.

Memes also take off because of entertainment value, but that's simply not what we're doing here. (I hope not. The last thing we want is someone laughing at an abuse story.)

Since my proposed solutions may be flawed what could I do to make something that’ll be effective and take off?

[Parththakkar12]

36 minutes ago, Consciousone35 said:

Since my proposed solutions may be flawed what could I do to make something that’ll be effective and take off?

Here's what I'd suggest - figure out what makes an offender. Maybe it's poverty, maybe it's divorces, maybe it's addicted parents (so addiction), maybe it's lack of sex education, maybe it's taboos around sex. You want to be looking at those factors and helping out potential offenders so that they don't offend. I'd suggest a preventative solution instead of a curative one.

I personally don't have a lot of ideas to help survivors, other than for them to use available facilities, heal themselves and move on with their lives. I don't see a reason to encourage them to dwell too much on the past other than for healing purposes. As far as justice goes, that may or may not be beneficial to the healing of the specific survivor. I'd suggest going ahead with the fight for justice only if it's healthy and empowering for the survivor. This would be an individual decision.

[Danioover9000]

@Consciousone35

On 7/27/2020 at 6:08 PM, Consciousone35 said:

https://rainn.org/statistics/scope-problem

Only 5 out of every 1000 sex offenders will spend a day in prison. Clearly something is very wrong with society and the way our system deals with sexual predators. As my life purpose is helping to get sexual offenders punished more and help launch investigations into sex trafficking and pedophile rings, how can I utilize spiral dynamics to accomplish these goals? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. 

    Could you explain which society, which system, which prison and at which country you think isn't dealing with sex offenders more adequately? 

   Also, could you explain your life purpose more?

   

[Leo Gura]

@Consciousone35 Your entire approach is Tier 1, not Tier 2.

You are obviously acting out some unresolved shadow issue of yours but portraying it as a noble cause.

The shadow isn't the people you're hunting, it's you, the hunter.

What you're doing is otherwise known as a moralistic crusade. And it will end badly for you.

[Consciousone35]

7 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

Here's what I'd suggest - figure out what makes an offender. Maybe it's poverty, maybe it's divorces, maybe it's addicted parents (so addiction), maybe it's lack of sex education, maybe it's taboos around sex. You want to be looking at those factors and helping out potential offenders so that they don't offend. I'd suggest a preventative solution instead of a curative one.

I personally don't have a lot of ideas to help survivors, other than for them to use available facilities, heal themselves and move on with their lives. I don't see a reason to encourage them to dwell too much on the past other than for healing purposes. As far as justice goes, that may or may not be beneficial to the healing of the specific survivor. I'd suggest going ahead with the fight for justice only if it's healthy and empowering for the survivor. This would be an individual decision.

Figuring out what makes offenders and trying to prevent them from becoming offenders in the first place would take a whole generation to do. #metoo did quite a bit in helping offenders get scared, perhaps I can try to launch a social movement that focuses on exposing sexual predators? I’m thinking maybe somehow I could help launch a #metoo 2.0 that views sexual assault as a societal issue than can be cured?

[Consciousone35]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Consciousone35 Your entire approach is Tier 1, not Tier 2.

You are obviously acting out some unresolved shadow of yours.

Can you explain how I could adopt a Tier 2 approach to sexual assault? I assume Tier 2 would rely on going into societal systems and improving them and bringing them to higher tiers, right?

[Parththakkar12]

4 minutes ago, Consciousone35 said:

Figuring out what makes offenders and trying to prevent them from becoming offenders in the first place would take a whole generation to do.

Why is this a problem for you?

5 minutes ago, Consciousone35 said:

perhaps I can try to launch a social movement that focuses on exposing sexual predators? I’m thinking maybe somehow I could help launch a #metoo 2.0 that views sexual assault as a societal issue than can be cured?

If you've got an idea, go ahead and implement it!

6 minutes ago, Consciousone35 said:

Can you explain how I could adopt a Tier 2 approach to sexual assault? I assume Tier 2 would rely on going into societal systems and improving them and bringing them to higher tiers, right?

Tier 2 involves understanding that 'sexual assault' is not an isolated issue, it's connected with other issues. For example, a guy who grew up in a ghetto, wasn't well educated grows up to sexually assault someone. It involves getting to the root of the issue and working on eliminating that in your own way. For example, it could involve pushing for better education in underdeveloped areas. It could also involve creating better, cheaper mental healthcare for parents.

[Consciousone35]

20 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Consciousone35

    Could you explain which society, which system, which prison and at which country you think isn't dealing with sex offenders more adequately? 

   Also, could you explain your life purpose more?

   

In short: virtually every society deals with sexual assault poorly. I focus however on my society: America. Our current legal system and police system doesn’t take sexual assault seriously enough.

My life purpose is to help reduce his much sexual assault occurs

[integral]

@Consciousone35 

1) Get money out of politics

2) Upgrade the education system

Indirectly sexual predators will reduce, the focus needs to be on the root problems in our social systems, not the symptoms of does systems. 

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by integral

[Consciousone35]

6 minutes ago, integral said:

@Consciousone35 

1) Get money out of politics

2) Upgrade the education system

Indirectly sexual predators will reduce, the focus needs to be on the root problems in our social systems, not the symptoms of does systems. 

 

How would fixing the education system when countries like Russia, China, and Japan, the countries with the best education systems in the world, all have massive sexual assault issues?

[integral]

5 minutes ago, Consciousone35 said:

How would fixing the education system when countries like Russia, China, and Japan, the countries with the best education systems in the world, all have massive sexual assault issues?

@Consciousone35 Nearly flipped my table reading that one, only a meme can save the day. 

We need to move away from an education system focusing on memorization and test taking. The focus should be creative thinking, critical thinking, self awareness, meta-cognitive awareness,.. Children should be thought how to truly understand them selves and to understand the people around them starting from kindergarten, The only obligatory subjects would be does that prepare them for the real world. 

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by integral

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Consciousone35 said:

Can you explain how I could adopt a Tier 2 approach to sexual assault? I assume Tier 2 would rely on going into societal systems and improving them and bringing them to higher tiers, right?

If you're seriously interested in that, you should start by meeting with a sexual assaulter or pedophile face to face, interviewing him, and getting to see the world from his perspective. Imagine if you were a pedophile. How would you feel and how would you see the world?

What you will discover is that everyone who you think is an assaulter, was actually a victim themselves in some way.

[Artsu]

I don't know too much about the relation between SD and this issue.

You are looking at red territory. Using blue and orange can help. Basically this would invole dealing with negative emotions, finding a passion and/or partner, and adopting a mindset of moving forward despite obstacles.

Going for a higher level understanding, such as yellow, what you would want to do is frame the issue in a broader philosophical context. Instead of punishing the wrongdoers, the focus is on empowering the victim to take control of their life and heal. A key issue here is transcending. You want to, i think, help people transcend what was done to them, or on the other side of things, somehow get the wrong doer to snap back into reality/morality so that they stop doing it.

I would focus on educating people regarding how to avoid such circumstances. Karma, i would say, deals with the punishment. It's worthwhile to punish wrongdoing in our society too, one reason being to speed up the job and prevent reoccurrences. But, as many have already commented, it would be best to use a positive motivation, and seek to help people elevate to higher states, whether this is overcoming trauma, or developing better morals.

Remember, all people are worthy of love, but some choose to act against it. Love should be key, from all directions.

Again, with spiral dynamics stages, make use of the higher levels through increased perspective on the issue. Really give thought to why these things occur and how they can be overcome.

Also, look into moral systems, such as that of Christianity. What is the essence of sin? (Going against love?) Why do people sin, and how do we change this? Is it better to focus on a subset of sins, or on sin in general?

Spend more time thinking about the problem of evil.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Artsu

[Consciousone35]

7 minutes ago, integral said:

@Consciousone35 Nearly flipped my table reading that one, only a meme can save the day. 

We need to move away from an education system focusing on memorization and test taking. The focus should be creative thinking, critical thinking, self awareness, meta-cognitive awareness,.. Children should be thought how to truly understand them selves and to understand the people around them starting from kindergarten, The only obligatory subjects would be does that prepare them for the real world. 

 

I agree we should fix the education system, however what will that do to fix sexual abuse?

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Consciousone35 said:

I agree we should fix the education system, however what will that do to fix sexual abuse?

There is no way you're going to stop sexual abuse directly. You can't insert yourself into everyone's bedroom.

The way to stop sexual abuse is by improving society as a whole, by creating a more conscious, loving, and fair society so that everyone is respected and supported, so that no one is  left out, so that people are emotionally healthy and compassionate towards each other.

One of the best ways to reduce sexual abuse is by creating a more equal economic situation where no one is left behind.

[Consciousone35]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you're seriously interested in that, you should start by meeting with a sexual assaulter or pedophile face to face, interviewing him, and getting to see the world from his perspective. Imagine if you were a pedophile. How would you feel and how would you see the world?

What you will discover is that everyone who you think is an assaulter, was actually a victim themselves in some way.

Pedophiles and sex offenders see people as simply objects that provide them with sexual gratification. And I don’t see how someone who’s life wasn’t any worse than anyone else’s was once a victim. The tough lady who decided to stand up to her abuser, he wasn’t her only abuser. He was her second abuser. Her first was a pedophile who sodomized her literally hundreds of times, who convinced her own family that she was the problem because he knew how to act kind and charming. If anyone is a victim it’s her, but she’s not going around sexually assaulting others, actually she now has a baby she’s excited to raise.

[AlwaysBeNice]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you're seriously interested in that, you should start meeting with a sexual assaulter or pedophile face to face, interviewing him, and getting to see the world from his perspective. Imagine if you were a pedophile. How would you feel and how would you see the world?

Yeah or being abused by extremely mentally ill satanic worshippers, for some reason prevalent in the higher circles of hollywood and D.C as they want to take their so called power, addiction to deeper pervesion..... just the tip of the iceberg of videos

 

[Consciousone35]

13 minutes ago, AlwaysBeNice said:

Yeah or being abused by extremely mentally ill satanic worshippers, for some reason prevalent in the higher circles of hollywood and D.C as they want to take their so called power, addiction to deeper pervesion..... just the tip of the iceberg of videos

 

Pizzagate is a load of crap. Also sex offenders aren’t mentally ill, they simply crave power over others and lack empathy

[integral]

@Consciousone35 

12 minutes ago, Consciousone35 said:

Pedophiles and sex offenders see people as simply objects that provide them with sexual gratification. And I don’t see how someone who’s life wasn’t any worse than anyone else’s was once a victim. The tough lady who decided to stand up to her abuser, he wasn’t her only abuser. He was her second abuser. Her first was a pedophile who sodomized her literally hundreds of times, who convinced her own family that she was the problem because he knew how to act kind and charming. If anyone is a victim it’s her, but she’s not going around sexually assaulting others, actually she now has a baby she’s excited to raise.

Why are they the way they are? How did they become abusers?

Most of them come from broken childhoods, they received very little love from there parents and society, they where likely abused them selves as children. Why didnt they receive enough love? If we can fix this we can prevent people from becoming abusers. How do we fix this?