iceprincess

why are muslim countries poor and underdeveloped?

66 posts in this topic

Just like what Leo said, I currently live in Iraq and most of the cities are dominated by people in the red stage, in some cities, there are some in the blue stage because of the British colonization. The main reason is traditions, Deeply ingrained traditions which even surpasses the implications of the misunderstanding of religion. Let alone the corrupted governments. In 2003 when America invaded the country, the majority of people elected new politicians based on their branch in Islam, which is mainly Shia or Sunni. The Sunnis want Sunni politicians and the Shias want Shia politicians, Even if the politician is corrupted, they will still keep him in power in fear of replacing him with another Sunni/Shia politician from the opposite branch.

Edited by black_math49

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2 minutes ago, black_math49 said:

Just like what Leo said, I currently live in Iraq and most of the cities are dominated by people in the red stage, in some cities, there are some in the blue stage because of the British colonization. The main reason is traditions, Deeply ingrained traditions which even surpasses the implications of the misunderstanding of religion. Let alone the corrupted governments. In 2003 when America invaded the country, the majority of people elected new politicians based on their branch in Islam, which is mainly Shia or Sunni. The Sunnis want Sunni politicians and the Shias want Shia politicians, Even if the politician is corrupted, they will still keep him in power in fear of replacing him with another Sunni/Shia politician from the opposite branch.

Ive must have met the best of the best then. :( I really liked those kids. Opened my heart to people in other countries alot. 


Dont look at me! Look inside!

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30 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

My analysis is mostly looking at the Spiral development level of the people in that region.

There is no way in hell a stage Purple/Red, highly tribal people, would be able to sustain some peaceful democracy regardless of outside influences. The entire region is too underdeveloped right now for peaceful coexistence.

That's kind of what I figured.

I don't necessarily disagree with you in that regard.  I just wanted to point out how the US has played its role in the situation.  I know you didn't intend it, but the statement seemed to justify the US's decisions based on the idea that they were acting in society's that are more primitive in their development.  To me that feels like a perspective that mirrors hawkish Neoconservatives, albeit your reasons for what you believe are intellectual in nature rather than prejudicial.  

It reminded me of when Sam Harris made his infamous "nuclear option" statement regarding middle eastern Islamic cultures.  I believe we have to be very careful and sensitive when analyzing this topic.  

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5 minutes ago, Rilles said:

Ive must have met the best of the best then. :( I really liked those kids. Opened my heart to people in other countries alot. 

Exactly, Being in China at your university is a good reason that they are the best of the best. :D

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9 minutes ago, black_math49 said:

Exactly, Being in China at your university is a good reason that they are the best of the best. :D

Yeah, one guy basically said there was no oppurtunity for further study in Iraq so thats why alot of them went to China. 


Dont look at me! Look inside!

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1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

 

And if the US has not taken out Saddam, he and Iran would still be at each others throats.

Youre right, but in a sense, the problem still remains and was not solved.  The same conflict exists just in a different form.  We've done everything to continually escalate with Iran.  We've committed actual acts of war against them even assassinating their lead general as he waged a war against ISIS in Iraq.  The show continues on even today top officials still constantly push regime change in Iran.  And it all of this all  started back from the coup in 1953.  

Edited by Heart of Space

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31 minutes ago, Rilles said:

Theyre not all AK47 toting maniacs with turbans screaming "Death to America!"

Being Purple and Red does not mean one has to carry an AK-47 or want to kill Americans.

Most Purple and Red people are relatively peaceful and decent. They are just very tribal, fundamentalist religious, and uneducated.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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6 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

Youre right, but in a sense, the problem still remains and was not solved.  The same conflict exists just in a different form.  We've done everything to continually escalate with Iran.  We've committed actual acts of war against them even assassinating their lead general as he waged a war against ISIS in Iraq.  The show continues on even today top officials still constantly push regime change in Iran.  And it all of this all  started back from the coup in 1953.  

Of course right-wing US policy towards Iran has been disastrous.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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middle east is def purple/RED overall with splashes of blue.

Iran is prob pretty solid blue though

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On 20/7/2020 at 11:19 AM, iceprincess said:

it's such a stupid question and in no way am I trying to undermine muslim people I just wanna know some background details. the only explanation I come across is severe oppression from the west. why is it that places like Saudi Arabia and Dubai have thrived but most of the Middle East and Africa is so underdeveloped. what are some practical solutions for them to progress, what would need to happen. explain to me like I'm 5. 

That’s normal I think, all civilization born and die at some moments, then reborn (in a different shape) and die again. 
I’m from the Middle East, so I will try to explain what is happening there nowadays from a spiral dynamic point of view (as this model makes it easier to understand the situation in few words):


- Saudi Arabia: going from stage purple to red. 
-Syria: from red to blue.
-Jordan: from purple/red/blue to orange.
-Qatar: from red/blue to orange (they are aiming for green but the resources are not enough yet in my opinion).
-Egypt: from red to more red.
-Turkey: from blue/orange to orange/green. 
-Iraq/Lebanon: I have no idea, just too complicated.  


These were some examples. 

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On 7/20/2020 at 5:19 AM, iceprincess said:

it's such a stupid question and in no way am I trying to undermine muslim people I just wanna know some background details. the only explanation I come across is severe oppression from the west. why is it that places like Saudi Arabia and Dubai have thrived but most of the Middle East and Africa is so underdeveloped. what are some practical solutions for them to progress, what would need to happen. explain to me like I'm 5. 

The term "underdeveloped" is biased toward industrialization
"development" being proposed as "normal " and "good" 
Not "under-" 

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What role did Islam/the Quran play in this underdevelopment?

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1 hour ago, Fadl said:

- Saudi Arabia: going from stage purple to red. 

If we're talking on a national level, Saudi Arabia is more red-blue. Purple-red would be something like ISIS. If there are no state laws present, no modern infrastructure or no allied states, then we're talking about purple-red tribal conquest. Saudia Arabia has modern infrastructure, state laws and allies. If we're talking on a demographical level, then sure - maybe some purple aswell.

Edited by Carl-Richard

Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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26 minutes ago, Artsu said:

What role did Islam/the Quran play in this underdevelopment?

I would look at the adherence to Islam as a consequence of the level of development, not the other way around. Of course having a well-established religion creates a "temporal lag" in their development, but that is inevitable.


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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3 hours ago, Artsu said:

What role did Islam/the Quran play in this underdevelopment?

In my opinion, nothing, Islam and Quran is a way to reach your higher self, but the self biased interpretation ruin it all.

 

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

If we're talking on a national level, Saudi Arabia is more red-blue. Purple-red would be something like ISIS. If there are no state laws present, no modern infrastructure or no allied states, then we're talking about purple-red tribal conquest. Saudia Arabia has modern infrastructure, state laws and allies. If we're talking on a demographical level, then sure - maybe some purple aswell.

No my friend, KSA is very purple (of course blue exist as well) , but with MBS (Mohammed Bin Salman) the country now is headed towards a complete red dictatorship state.

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4 minutes ago, Fadl said:

In my opinion, nothing, Islam and Quran is a way to reach your higher self, but the self biased interpretation ruin it all.

Reaching to higher self has variety of ways. Islam has a very good way to enlightenment which is the true Sufi way.

IMO Islam as compared to many major religions has a very unique way to reaching higher self which is... not everyone is ment to become a sage.

One of the drawbacks of Buddhism in my opinion is that it has same principles for everyone. Buddhism approach is that everyone should become enlightened. 


I chose to no longer be a member of this forum.

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1 hour ago, Zak said:

Reaching to higher self has variety of ways. Islam has a very good way to enlightenment which is the true Sufi way.

 

I agree.

2 hours ago, Zak said:

IMO Islam as compared to many major religions has a very unique way to reaching higher self which is... not everyone is ment to become a sage.

 

I don´t know, but feel that (somehow) everybody has the ability to become a sage (if he/she really wants to)… but I still don’t know how!

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2 hours ago, Fadl said:

No my friend, KSA is very purple (of course blue exist as well) , but with MBS (Mohammed Bin Salman) the country now is headed towards a complete red dictatorship state.

Can you explain why it's very purple? What qualities excludes it from blue?

Edited by Carl-Richard

Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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2 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Can you explain why it's very purple? What qualities excludes it from blue?

Because, simply the KSA consists of many small tribes which create the state, and every tribe follow its leader (el Sheikh) and nobody but him, But the Saudi regime (Saud is one of these tribes by the way) had the ability to control all the other tribes (very long history) for like 90 years or sth, but now in a sudden comes MBS who wanna destroy this system and create a dictatorship/red state by eliminating the concept of AL Qapela (the tribe). 

The strong blue qualities these tribes have came from religion… but they stayed as tribes … they become tribes with a religion. 

It is a very weak summarization I know.. But you can always look it up on the internet.. and if you speak Arabic I can recommend you some material.  
 

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On 21.7.2020 at 8:47 AM, Leo Gura said:

If the US didn't invade Iraq, Saddam and his psychopathic sons would still be in power.

That's a bit shortsighted.  The US helped established their power in the first place.

"US intelligence helped Saddam's Ba`ath Party seize power for the first time in 1963. Evidence suggests that Saddam was on the CIA payroll as early as 1959, when he participated in a failed assassination attempt against Iraqi strongman Abd al-Karim Qassem. In the 1980s, the US and Britain backed Saddam in the war against Iran, giving Iraq arms, money, satellite intelligence, and even chemical & bio-weapon precursors. As many as 90 US military advisors supported Iraqi forces and helped pick targets for Iraqi air and missile attacks."

The mess the middle-east is in is clearly a result of, mainly, anglo-american devilry.  

 

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