From your experiences, is realizing the joy of God worth any amount of suffering?

[Inliytened1]

39 minutes ago, Johnny5 said:

Belief-based "enlightenment" is really about the dropping of belief. When a belief releases, the energy associated with it eventually releases too, and that's what leads to the "actual enlightenment" (which is really just another state to abide in (or not)).

That's the state you are trying to "get to". Indeed beliefs aren't it, but nonetheless everything starts and ends with beliefs, because those are what keep the energy of separation in place. You can't approach the state directly, only obliquely. At some point you have to stop trying to dive and start allowing yourself to sink.

You keep taking yourself too seriously, and you keep taking your buddhas too seriously, as if any of you actually existed anywhere outside of your own mind. When I say Leo is full of shit, I don't mean Leo is full of shit, I mean stop objectifying your heroes, and thereby yourself.

And which is why you don't take anyone seriously who doesn't meet your criteria. Those are criteria you have created for yourself, and they are exactly what keep you down, and what keep you dismissing valid pointers.

The one thing that Deadpool doesn't do, despite everything he goes through (which is a fucking lot), is take himself seriously. That's what makes a master. That's how @Nahm can be no-self.

 

Quote from Jed's books:

"He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher." -- Walt Whitman

Zero has seen the Ox.  It's coming back to the mundane that he struggles with.  

[Someone here]

4 hours ago, zeroISinfinity said:

Infinite Love it really sounds to good to be True. 

How to get to it? I tried everything man I really did. I am tired of seeking. I don't understand a word what these guys are talking about. Conciousness this Conciousness that. 

Whwt do I have to do. Tired. 

 

 You can't get anything because reality is like air always fluctuating and changing. Forget about getting any dam thing. 

[mandyjw]

1 hour ago, Johnny5 said:

You keep taking yourself too seriously, and you keep taking your buddhas too seriously, as if any of you actually existed anywhere outside of your own mind. When I say Leo is full of shit, I don't mean Leo is full of shit, I mean stop objectifying your heroes, and thereby yourself.

I suspect that the path of devotion is misunderstood by a lot of people here who are unwilling to take crazy, bizarro shortcuts.  

The other day I left a red rose on the grave of a clairvoyant doctor who's book seemed to apparently play a major part in triggering an awakening. I first went by his grave and noticed poison nightshade growing there and all I knew was that he was a clairvoyant herbal doctor so I thought it was hilarious that a poison plant was the only thing growing there. After that I read his book. It seemed silly logically to leave a rose but the idea of it just felt so good. On the way back from the cemetery I decided to check a free book box and right on top was a book with a woman and red rose and the title was "Vanish with the Rose."  I'm not sure if he wants me to realize the truth of no self or if he's telling me off cause he wants to rest in peace. Hmm... 

Sometimes I wonder if awakening is played out kind of like the kind of movie we want to go see the most. After all, we are simply entertaining ourselves. You guys like movies with the heroic main character going through hell, all kinds of action and getting blown almost to smithereens in the end.  Me, I just wanna watch a romcom. 

"The outer self and the inner both are imagined. The obsession of being an ‘I’ needs another obsession with a ‘super-I’ to get cured, as one needs another thorn to remove a thorn, or another poison to neutralize a poison. All assertion calls for a denial, but this is the first step only. The next is to go beyond both." -Nisargadatta Maharaj

Cause, every rose has it's thorn...

I wonder if some people obsess over an "I" outside them, figure, guru, etc, and others obsess over their ideal future self. Probably it's a bit of both for all of us. 

[mandyjw]

25 minutes ago, Johnny5 said:

Could be, but don't devotees also need to take that final plunge in the end just like everyone else...? Unless zero isn't ready for that yet... but he's the one who keeps asking these questions, I'm just answering to the best of my ability.

No, cause you can't plunge into something that you already are, and if that seems to happen anyway such as in awakening, there's nothing final about what never began. 

25 minutes ago, Johnny5 said:

I don't see a real difference. That's why seems to me that "killing" the buddha is equivalent to "killing" yourself. The only thing keeping you (anyone) afloat is the things they attach to. There is no someone being attached nor an object of attachment, there is only the energy of attachment which secretly represents both sides of the equation. Killing the buddha is equivalent to killing the attachment. Which releases the energy of separation, which is what yourself consists of. There is no difference between world and ego.

Well, you're right, our love for a guru or god, clairvoyant doctor, Leo, etc, is conditional. It's far, far, less conditional than any other person we've loved in "real life" which is what makes it a path or transformational but, it's still conditional. The love never dies, but just gets more expansive. Devotion is irrational, imaginary love with something or someone that seems to have a profound effect over you. Psychedelics are used to achieve something similar. It doesn't even have to be in the form of a human, imaginary or real, Terrence McKenna's path seemed to be devotional love with psychedelics themselves. 

You can't detach, but you can see through real and imaginary, cause and effect, self and other and all the other conditions we put on love. You can laugh at yourself for loving chocolate so much you can't have it in the house, but you could never throw away your love for chocolate because there was no one who ever decided, "I love chocolate". It's just something that happened. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by mandyjw

[mandyjw]

@Johnny5 Dunno, Ramana Maharshi never shut up about Arunachala.  Outwardly nothing changes. You still leaves roses, or sing praises, whatever. But at some point you realize you're only doing it for yourself, don't need anything from it and then it's all the more fun.  

[VincentArogya]

It's absolutely worth it and the funny part is the once you recognize God, you won't look at your suffering as suffering anymore.

[zeroISinfinity]

On 6.7.2020. at 1:29 AM, Inliytened1 said:

Zero has seen the Ox.  It's coming back to the mundane that he struggles with.  

Yeah I do man. Very noticable. This stuff destroyed everything I ever beleived in. It really did. Have to deal with aftermath too not easy stuff. I mean it is but I dunno just should I be happy or not with this. 

[Inliytened1]

6 hours ago, zeroISinfinity said:

Yeah I do man. Very noticable. This stuff destroyed everything I ever beleived in. It really did. Have to deal with aftermath too not easy stuff. I mean it is but I dunno just should I be happy or not with this. 

Do not view it as destroying everything you believed in, rather view it as it has enhanced everything.   Reality is so much more magical now.  It isn't made of dumb physical matter.  As for the mundane - its not as mundane as you think.  God has revealed itself to you but there is still more work to be done in this realm. There is still a state of being and a state of selflessness that one must reach here.  It is precisely not wanting the spiritual realm that will put you closer to it.  Because you see - there was never really two different realms.  Its just the self that sees it that way.

[Enlightenment]

@Frenk No, 15 minutes of the greatest joy and love is not worth 15 minutes of the biggest suffering 

[Frenk]

I think when you are in the greatest love you feel like you have never suffered in your life.

And when you are in your greatest suffering it feels like you're never going to get out of it and all the good moments were a joke.

[JosephKnecht]

On 7/8/2020 at 0:00 AM, Enlightenment said:

@Frenk No, 15 minutes of the greatest joy and love is not worth 15 minutes of the biggest suffering 

Have you experienced the greatest joy? Have you experienced the biggest suffering?

How do you know they were the greatest and the biggest? 

[Enlightenment]

24 minutes ago, JosephKnecht said:

Have you experienced the greatest joy? Have you experienced the biggest suffering?

How do you know they were the greatest and the biggest? 

Of course, nobody can ever be certain that the joy or suffering experienced was the greatest. However, I've experienced higher peak states of bliss than probably 99% of the population:

• The meditative joy of adept stages of meditation, the rapture of Jhana
• DPT and 5-MeO breakthrough + many small-mid dose trips
• Various drugs in high recreational doses taken on clear receptors with no tolerance like amphetamine, MDMA, Opiates, Mephedrone, benzos, GHB, Nitrous... from which the most blissful was love on MDMA and fapping to porn on amphetamine

As for suffering, the peak state of depression and anxiety when I almost committed suicide because irritability and anxiety levels were simply unbearable.

I think no reasonable person would voluntarily take x time of extreme suffering like torture or cluster headache to then experience x time of the most bliss they can imagine. I'd rather be unconscious