Akemrelax

Disscussion About Whether MBTI is True/False

39 posts in this topic

Hi guys,

Lately I have been seeing a lot of discussion in the forum about the MBTI personality types (INTP, INTJ, etc.). Forgive me, I couldn't stop myself, but I think MBTI is just not true. From what I have gathered from reading about it and watching videos it is not a good predictor of your personality or your cognitive functions. I did 4 different test and got different results. It may appear a simple test based upon 4 easy to understand parameters but if you actually go into it its's not.

One thing is that there is no agreed upon definition of MBTI. Another is that, I don't see many of the distinctions in MBTI in my direct experience. Like what's the difference between extraverted thinking and extraverted intuition? Or introverted feeling and introverted sensing? And is it a useful distinction in terms of  psychology? 

I made this post to warn anybody who is taking MBTI too seriously, and to hear from people who think it is true why it is true. Ime going into it was a huge time sink. It is the best way to get cut off from actuality and get lost in concepts. I'm eager to hear from you if you disagree with me.

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I've heard it described as "astrology for intellectuals/ academics". With the premise that astrology is complete BS. I personally enjoy these kind of tests, but I don't take it super seriously. To be honest, I don't take any kind of psychological labeling (for example, a great number of psychological conditions as being super scientific = law) very seriously either.

It's just a sort of shorthand label for understanding and making sense, like all psychoemotional labeling systems. Either you find it helpful, or you don't.

I tend to class consistently as INTP, and there are a number of generalizations that don't fit my personality, exactly. Like inherently especially, I'm nowhere near as socially retarded as the type suggests. (People don't say it, but we know that's what you mean, haha:D).

As long as you don't take it super seriously, like it's a religion or an ideology or something, then I don't see that there's much harm in it. If it helps people understand themselves and see themselves more clearly, then great.

It seems like it gets messy when you start looking at people you don't know that well, and then insisting they are definitely >insert type<.

Edited by modmyth

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As with most things, it's part-true.

All models of reality are partial and limited.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

As with most things, it's part-true.

It is so partial that it's not worth using.

Harry Potter Houses are more accurate. I suggest we start a "Resources for Ravenclaws" thread ;).

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@modmyth Thing is that some people take it seriously because it is marketed as being kinda sciency. MBTI 'experts' claim you can't look at behavior to determine type because MBTI doesn't account for behavior. It gets super confusing when you dig deep into it. Like the terms used are differently defined in Jungian terms, 'feeling' is not the conventional definition of feeling.

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18 minutes ago, Akemrelax said:

It is so partial that it's not worth using.

Harry Potter Houses are more accurate. I suggest we start a "Resources for Ravenclaws" thread ;).

Nah ya wrong about that. Its as partial as the 10 ox herding, ideas on enlightenment, and the concepts Leo introduces... yet you're still here. 

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1 hour ago, electroBeam said:

Its as partial as the 10 ox herding, ideas on enlightenment, and the concepts Leo introduces... yet you're still here. 

Some concepts are more accurate than others. SP can be used in a practical way, MBTI cannot.

SD can be used to predict behaviour, patterns of thinking, values, etc.

I cannot see the distinctions MBTI makes in real life, like the ones I mentioned above.

Making a claim and not providing any explaining doesn’t add much to the discussion. Just saying.

Edited by Akemrelax
Typos

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1 hour ago, Akemrelax said:

Some concepts are more accurate than others. 

Yep that's right

1 hour ago, Akemrelax said:

SP can be used in a practical way, MBTI cannot.

What's practical and not practical is relative to your beliefs and who you are. I find MBTI and enneagram far more effective at describing a person's behaviour than SD. 

Quote

I cannot see the distinctions MBTI makes in real life, like the ones I mentioned above.

You wont because its a model, you also wont see the distinctions SD, 10 ox herdings, concepts leo introduces make either if you look closely enough. 

Edited by electroBeam

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12 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

You wont because its a model, you also wont see the distinctions SD, 10 ox herdings, concepts leo introduces make either if you look closely enough. 

You can't make a distinction between stage yellow and stage red? You can't make a distinction between different types of cars?

You know perfectly well what I mean. You're purposely bringing in non-duality to prove me wrong. 

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13 minutes ago, Akemrelax said:

You're purposely bringing in non-duality to prove me wrong. 

1.png

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@Akemrelax  I think there's an issue with people latching onto the "truth" of such things too easily. Being open and nondogmatic in spirit tends to counter that nicely.

It's a product of late 19th/ early 20th-century thinking that still happens to be in use, because well, people still find it useful. And unlike something like craniometry (the measurement of people's skulls to determine people's personality, character traits, intelligence, etc.), it doesn't seem super ridiculous and also super racist now.

It's not easy to see why MBTI doesn't make much sense for some people or is unrelatable.

IQ testing is also pretty similar in that it emerged out of the extremely quantitative way of thinking that was the former part of the 20th century, where people wanted to put numbers and these efficient, succinct labels on everything. Like craniometry, there are also residual undertones and a history of scientific racism (and arguably still at this point in time, somewhat classicist, because if you have money, your parents are more likely to have the time and inclination to pour money into early childhood education and training the mind in this way, plus general lifestyle plus social expectations).

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@modmyth Yes, I agree with you. I actually tried to research this with an open mind but it just doesn’t make sense that’s why I am open to hearing from people.

I think there are some types in there like INTP which is suppose to be a scientific nerd and INFP which is suppose to be the lost artist that attracts people. But the other types are less stereotypical. Plus it’s hard to see the distinction between many of the ‘cognitive functions’ and the ‘logic’ of why certain ‘cognitive functions’ result in certain types. Plus it seems there is a lot of disagreement.

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@Akemrelax Maybe it doesn't fit you because you're more in the middle.

If a model doesn't work for you, just ignore it and move on to something else.

For me it offers valuable insight into my personality.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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8 hours ago, Akemrelax said:

because it is marketed as being kinda sciency

It is a rich and complicated model, corrupted by everyone wanting to be a snowflake and websites ready to serve whatever attracts most people. If you want to really understand the core concepts behind typing, the original source that started all this is the book Psychological Types by Carl Jung.

If you are looking for something specific and sciency, maybe you will like Objective Personality System (YouTube). it's a more refined and objective version of MBTI (MBTI has 16 types, OPS has 512). I think they are overcomplicating stuff, but they sure are making some good discoveries.  

Edited by Himanshu

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@Akemrelax This is what intuition gets you with out putting any actual work into the subject. Quick to form beliefs and spread them. These are learning disabilities. 

dunning-kruger-chart-1-e1567018113338.jp

Beliefs formed at the highest confidence point... 

Edited by integral

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I think the question could be worded differently. 

Every model of reality is ultimately false, but some models are useful. Reality is the ONLY TRUE MODEL OF ITSELF. 

If you seek to categorize people based on certain traits, and your subjective experience of reality reinforces your model, then you have a useful model. 

If your categorization is invalidated through subjective experience, then you have a useless model. 

You decide what is useful and what is useless. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, integral said:

 This is what intuition gets you with out putting any actual work into the subject. Quick to form beliefs and spread them. These are learning disabilities. 

I actually spend a good amount of time looking into it.

Why do you even comment if you want to spread negativity? If you actually wanted to help you would explain MBTI instead of calling me learning disabled. 

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3 hours ago, Himanshu said:

Psychological Types by Carl Jung.

Okay I’ll give it a read and come back. If I like it maybe I’ll read Gifts Differing too.

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@Akemrelax sorry just came from a similar thread about mbti, now that leo has pushed mbti onto the forum, Doubter threads likes this one are going to pop up every week. non-stop. This one is the 3rd so far in the past few days.

It takes years of practice to properly integrate these maps, to reach a point where we can sea the patterns accurately. All of these maps like SD,mbti... are deeply interconnected. There are valuable insights found when merging them. 

https://integrallife.com/what-is-integral-approach/

 

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13 hours ago, Akemrelax said:

Hi guys,

Lately I have been seeing a lot of discussion in the forum about the MBTI personality types (INTP, INTJ, etc.). Forgive me, I couldn't stop myself, but I think MBTI is just not true. From what I have gathered from reading about it and watching videos it is not a good predictor of your personality or your cognitive functions. I did 4 different test and got different results. It may appear a simple test based upon 4 easy to understand parameters but if you actually go into it its's not.

One thing is that there is no agreed upon definition of MBTI. Another is that, I don't see many of the distinctions in MBTI in my direct experience. Like what's the difference between extraverted thinking and extraverted intuition? Or introverted feeling and introverted sensing? And is it a useful distinction in terms of  psychology? 

I made this post to warn anybody who is taking MBTI too seriously, and to hear from people who think it is true why it is true. Ime going into it was a huge time sink. It is the best way to get cut off from actuality and get lost in concepts. I'm eager to hear from you if you disagree with me.

Some maps will work for some people, i dont think every map will resonate with all people. Psychology and medicine can provide varying results, like for example ssris may help some people and have no effect on others, is it then worth saying theyre useless on that basis?

I would like you to consider and answer this question, what is your true intention behind this post? really consider this

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