Recursoinominado

Those Rioters Made An Excellent Case Pro Guns

21 posts in this topic

I was always against guns and pro heavy regulations for special cases but seeing those riots on USA and how easily the government lost control of the situation, it made clear for me why we really need guns: when shit goes down and Big Daddy fails to protect you, you better have a gun to protect yourself, your family and your property. 

 

 

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You aren't alone - applications for gun licences in the US are going through the roof.  Yet, this seems to be an overreaction to me.  There are about 15,000+ murders per year in the US, and not that many due to the recent riots. 

 

Just what we need, a lot more scared inexperienced gun owners.

Edited by SerpaeTetra

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1 hour ago, Recursoinominado said:

I was always against guns and pro heavy regulations for special cases but seeing those riots on USA and how easily the government lost control of the situation, it made clear for me why we really need guns: when shit goes down and Big Daddy fails to protect you, you better have a gun to protect yourself, your family and your property. 

 

 

I am reading Path to God by Ram Dass. I said it multiple times. If i am in the crossfire of the riots, i will pull the trigger without hesitation to protect family, friends, and myself. 

I linked to the cop who got shot and paralyzed in Vegas. I don't envy cops. Shit pay and a lot of hate. No appreciation especially atm. Risky job and no way forward after a life or death scenario. 

I over heard a woman playing the victim card about the dude resisting arrest and using a stun gun on a cop before getting shot. The height of stupidity. What do you expect? 

I am going to avoid social and mainstream media for the next while. The entire thing makes me very tired. The nonsense of course pops up during a election year and a global pandemic which makes me very very skeptical. 

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1 hour ago, Recursoinominado said:

I was always against guns and pro heavy regulations for special cases but seeing those riots on USA and how easily the government lost control of the situation, it made clear for me why we really need guns: when shit goes down and Big Daddy fails to protect you, you better have a gun to protect yourself, your family and your property. 

 

 

The only reason why the US needs guns is so they can shoot trump and the police ;) 

 

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when shit goes down and Big Daddy fails to protect you, you better have a gun to protect yourself, your family and your property.

Now the question is: Why does the shit go down?

Edited by Raphael

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11 hours ago, Recursoinominado said:

I was always against guns and pro heavy regulations for special cases but seeing those riots on USA and how easily the government lost control of the situation, it made clear for me why we really need guns: when shit goes down and Big Daddy fails to protect you, you better have a gun to protect yourself, your family and your property. 

This mentality intensifies violence cycles. This is one reason there are more guns than people in America and why America is in the situation it is. Adding in even more guns will make the problem worse at a societal level. This is why it’s important to not just think in individualistic terms, yet also in societal terms. 

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@electroBeam Well, not if you catch yourself in a riot zone which is also a no police zone. Or if you have a business that is in danger of destruction by rioters and looters or if you live in the area or have a car parked in the area or even are driving and get stuck in a riot. 

They just showed us DOZENS of pretty good reasons to have a gun and protect yourself when the gov will not.

 @SerpaeTetra I don't know if it is an overreaction man, if 2020 proven something is that we, as a global society, are way more unstable that we like to think. We are always one bad thing away from social chaos. And I am not being pessimist, at this point, it is just common sense to wait for the next big chaos that we are going to face

@Raphael Could be a random guy on the other side of the world eating a contaminated dead animal ;)

 

@Serotoninluv This is a typical stage green view, beautiful but unpractical. Sometimes you have to think in individualistic terms, imagine yourself with a store that it is your only means of living and of your family in the middle of a riot that you have no control at all. 

Would you say: nah man, let them steal everything and burn my store down, that is the compassionate and collectivist thing to do, i will not use any means to protect myself or my family we are all going to starve but, who cares, all is one :x 

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56 minutes ago, Recursoinominado said:

 

@Serotoninluv This is a typical stage green view, beautiful but unpractical. Sometimes you have to think in individualistic terms, imagine yourself with a store that it is your only means of living and of your family in the middle of a riot that you have no control at all. 

Would you say: nah man, let them steal everything and burn my store down, that is the compassionate and collectivist thing to do, i will not use any means to protect myself or my family we are all going to starve but, who cares, all is one :x 

I didn’t say what you wrote doesn’t have practical value at an individual level. 

I would consider a couple things. When a mind is hyper-contracted into self preservation it perceives through a lens of self preservation. If my lens is that my highest value is my self preservation AND that the world is threatening my self preservation, how will I interpret my surroundings? Everything will be perceived through a lens that things are risky and I need to protect myself. If I go to the store, I may be concerned that the guy walking on the street has a gun and might hurt me. Buying and carrying a gun may give some comfort to this mindset, yet it will re-enforce the mindset. As well, this mindset attracts more risk and danger into my life because that is my orientation of how I relate to the world.

Along this track, notice how the mind extrapolates isolated incidents as general reality. This is super common for a mind immersed into self preservation - especially when that mindset is re-enforced by social conditioning. For example, a lot of Americans are afraid of terrorists and want to protect themselves from terrorists. The news is filled with stories about terrorists. However, the chance of an American dying from a terrorist attack is less than the chance of being struck by lightening. Notice how the mind extrapolates isolated terrorist incidents to be a general phenomena which is dangerous to me. Yet the mind does not extrapolate lightening strikes as a general phenomena which is dangerous to me. Part of this is social conditioning. . . . My neighbor has a fear of terrorists and makes similar statements as you. She wants to get a gun. She tells me “Imagine yourself in a store in which your only means of living is that store and a terrorist comes in and you have no control”. . . The problem with this is that she now has a gun and is walking around town perceiving through a lens that other people may be terrorists. 

I’m not saying that terrorists don’t exist and there is no threat. I’m not saying that it is not a problem and shouldn’t be addressed. I am talking about the extrapolation of the existence of terrorists and the threat. And perceiving through this lens of extrapolation causes distortion and an expansion of the underlying problem. 

Consider if you are being conditioned within a violent environment and if you are extrapolating that view to be a generalized reality. To a hammer, everything appears to be a nail. 

Regarding SD. . . Red/Blue/Orange will not be able to understand Green and Yellow clearly. Yellow integrates Green, yet is not limited to Green. Yellow can integrate Green components into a more complex system. Yet Orange may label and dismiss what appears as Green components (within a Yellow system) as “beautiful, yet unpractical” because they don’t have a yellow meta view. 

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@Serotoninluv As i said in my original post, i was always against guns for the same reasons you said above, you are just assuming that if i don't agree with you if because i don't have the more complex metacognition that you have, which is not the case.

Yellow stage is characterized by being a spiral wizard because it can navigate through all the past stages and can see the limitations of all of them, including the naivete of green, beautiful but unpractical. It is good long-term thinking but doesn't answer the demands of this moment, right now.

I gave you real-life examples that my me reconsider my initial position against guns because, as a yellow thinker, i have to consider that, in a lot of cases, the use of force is necessary, as much as i would like to solve things chanting mantras and blessing the shit out of everyone, that's not how you deal with a riot that is happening right now and you are in the middle of it responsible to protect your family's life and your own.

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43 minutes ago, Recursoinominado said:

@Serotoninluv 

I gave you real-life examples that my me reconsider my initial position against guns because, as a yellow thinker, i have to consider that, in a lot of cases, the use of force is necessary, as much as i would like to solve things chanting mantras and blessing the shit out of everyone, that's not how you deal with a riot that is happening right now and you are in the middle of it responsible to protect your family's life and your own.

I wouldn’t consider the views in the thread to be yellow level. I would consider it one dot within an inter-connected network. Isolating and focusing on one dot has value, yet it neglects the inter-connectiveness of other dots. 

I’m not saying the dot is wrong or lacks value. From one perspective, the view of the dot is correct and has value. I’m saying there is a bigger picture in which that dot exists.

You may be able to see the inter-connectiveness and are intentionally focusing on one dot. At times, yellow becomes contracted and focuses on details of one dot. I commonly do it. . . Yet yellow can expand outward. For example, yellow can contract into Peru being South America and discuss details about Peru. Yet yellow can also zoom out and inter-connect Peru with various other aspects of South America. If a person was focused on Peru, we wouldn’t know if they are orange or yellow. Yet if they are asked to put Peru in the greater context of South America and are unable to - it would indicate they are not fluent in yellow. 

In another context: you can easily see that I am fluent in English. Yet you don’t know if I am fluent in Portuguese. If you spoke Portuguese and I continued to speak English, you would easily be able to tell that I can only speak English. If I spoke so-so Portuguese, you would easily be able to tell that I am at a beginner level of Portuguese and not yet fluent. You can easily do this because you are fluent in Portuguese. 

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@Serotoninluv Well, it seems to me that the dot I am focused on, is the same that you ignore and thus your worldview has this hole in it that it is easier for you to ignore.

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4 minutes ago, Recursoinominado said:

@Serotoninluv Well, it seems to me that the dot I am focused on, is the same that you ignore and thus your worldview has this hole in it that it is easier for you to ignore.

I wrote that the dot is correct and has value from one perspective. I can see the dot as well as some of the surrounding dots. Yet I’m continually expanding and learning about new dots. 

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@Raphael Could be a random guy on the other side of the world eating a contaminated dead animal

That's a great answer, but not the one that I expected :D

I understand your point of view and honestly, if I were in a very unstable place of the world I would probably love to have a gun to protect myself.

However, the issue is that this is the US, the dominant and richest country on the planet. How is it that the "shit" can go that down in this country? People are supposed to live well and have enough financial resources to sustain themselves, but it looks like a lot of them are still very close to survival and so fearful that they need guns to protect themselves.

I'm not from the US so my opinion is limited, but for me, it looks like they are some systemic issues in this country. In a well-elaborated system and in this particular situation even if the "shit goes down", it can only go down to a certain limit. That way people still have some margin for a certain time and don't need to be afraid about violence because poor peoples cannot sustain themselves. This is how it went for other first-world countries and even less than first-world countries.

Edited by Raphael

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@Raphael I don't know man, 2020 made me really contemplate how fragile all humans societies still are (I really do mean all of them), the world is an unpredictable place, and we live in a highly globalized era, one random thing anywhere affects the whole. In the end, we are just monkeys trying to keep our shit together and manage 7 Billions of us coexisting without slicing our throats. We are, collectively, at all times, one bad thing away from mayhem. We are not so evolved yet as we like to think. We trust the gov. to deal with all the major issues and keep us safe but this is a dangerous bet to make as we are seeing right now. 

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On 16/06/2020 at 1:35 AM, SerpaeTetra said:

You aren't alone - applications for gun licences in the US are going through the roof.  Yet, this seems to be an overreaction to me.  There are about 15,000+ murders per year in the US, and not that many due to the recent riots. 

 

Just what we need, a lot more scared inexperienced gun owners.

It is until you need a gun. The Liberal run states are letting shit run wild. I don't want crazy riots near me. If i have a gun, they can try but it won't end well. 

The irony never fails to amaze me. 

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