Leo Gura

Policing Is Hard Work

412 posts in this topic

6 minutes ago, Extreme Z7 said:

Do you think the Atlanta incident is an example of over-policing

You mean this Wendy's case?? Or some other case?

I think the Wendy's case is not over-policing. Other cases are different, like Floyd.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Europe is more egalitarian with less economic disparity and slightly higher level of Spiral development.

in many aspects its different, but we also have especially at some blue-orange levels some really difficult issues.      in sense of openmindedness we would in many cases not be like we are without hollywood and american music, we would probably still be stuck in blue. 

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@Leo Gura Okay then. I can respect that opinion.

I'm actually on the fence with the Wendy's case. I recognize that Brooks violently resisted arrest, but I keep wanting there to be an alternative to shooting someone who's running away.

I guess it could just be me, speaking as a fragile snowflake who'll never handle a gun in his life lol. (Or at least, I sure hope not)

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Lolololololololololololoollolololool

Admit it Leo, a lot of your sympathy for the police comes after running this forum


لا إله إلا الله، وليو رسول الله

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One police reform could be to use a shoot-to-wound policy  in some cases like these.  With an officer behind him, and knowing the suspect didn't have another weapon (they already frisked him), I think he could have shot him in the ass or leg.  Cops in the US are always trained to shoot-to-stop the threat; usually multiple shots in the chest or back (which often results in death).  This would of course require more marksmanship training.  

That being said, I agree the split-second decisions cops are faced with are extremely difficult.  Also, if I start wrestling with two cops, I expect to be dead more often than not.  Cases like these would never result with a criminal charge to the officer in the past, but this guy will probably be used as an example.  

Edited by SerpaeTetra

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30 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Lolololololololololololoollolololool

Admit it Leo, a lot of your sympathy for the police comes after running this forum

I am not shure about it. Some admins have a different opinion on it. In general I agree. Maybe that is why chaz is a good test run if it can made better. We can not evolve without experimentation.

Though I am not ready if one should get tazered if one gets a warning at the forum. Some experiments should be taken with precaution I guess :)

 

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37 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Lolololololololololololoollolololool

Admit it Leo, a lot of your sympathy for the police comes after running this forum

Actually this correct.

You can't appreciate policing until you've personally done some form of it.

The thing about policing that most people don't understand is how relentless it is. The volume is very high. You are handling borderline cases all day long for years. After arresting hundreds of people and dealing with thousands of devils it makes you jaded. You can't handle each case like a snowflake. There are too many devils to treat each one like angle. Devils take advantage of your generosity. You don't shoot one of them, and he stabs you in the back with a knife.

20 minutes ago, SerpaeTetra said:

One police reform could be to use a shoot-to-wound policy  in some cases like these.  With an officer behind him, and knowing the suspect didn't have another weapon (they already frisked him), I think he could have shot him in the ass or leg.  Cops in the US are always trained to shoot-to-stop the threat; usually multiple shots in the chest or back (which often results in death).  This would of course require more marksmanship training. 

I agree this could be improved upon. Like, don't shoot in the chest or head unless he has a loaded gun. But then again, if a criminal was shooting a tazer at me, I would shoot him in the chest. That's a serious threat. It is the height of arrogance to steal a cop's tazer and use it against him. You thereby practically leave him no choice but you shoot you. That tazer was the cop's humane tool to arrest you with.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Lots of police-bashing these days. And I agree that reforms are necessary to expunge systemic racism.

But also consider why this issue is much more complicated than it seems. Try to appreciate the challenges of policing drunk, crazy, and criminal people.

This video shows the challenges: two cops armed with a taser are still not able to successfully arrest 1 guy.

In my mind, if you resist arrest, steal a cop's taser, run away, and then fire his taser at him. Yeah... you should expect to be shot.

Exactly. If I was in America particularly where insanity is going on, I wouldn't hesitate to use a gun. It sucks too. I am reading Path to God by Ram Dass and I wouldn't hesitate if my life or the life of my family was in danger. 

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30 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I agree this could be improved upon. Like, don't shoot in the chest or head unless he has a loaded gun. But then again, if a criminal was shooting a tazer at me, I would shoot him in the chest. That's a serious threat. It is the height of arrogance to steal a cop's tazer and use it against him. You thereby practically leave him no choice but you shoot you. That tazer was the cop's humane tool to arrest you with.

And what would you do if you were a non-criminal and an armed predator wanted to abuse and kidnap you? I would grab the predator’s tazer, run like hell and use the taser against him.

I get your point about how good cops have to deal with shitty dangerous people/situations everyday and become jaded. I couldn’t do it. Yet I think you may be underestimating the corruption in police departments and how it is reasonable for noncriminal young black inner city males to see police officers as predators they need to defend themselves against. 

The situation reminds me somewhat of Medellin, Colombia. The police there have to deal with a lot of criminals and dangerous situations and are jaded. The locals in the city only partially trusted the police since they were so corrupt. They warned me to be cautious of the police, yet it’s better to trust the police over the mafia and criminals.

Below is an example of how hard it is to be a good cop in a corrupt system:

 

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26 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

And what would you do if you were a non-criminal and an armed predator wanted to abuse and kidnap you? I would grab the predator’s tazer, run like hell and use the taser against him.

You ain't gonna fight the cops with a tazer. In this case you let yourself get arrested and deal with the aftermath.

I have yet to see videos of cops killing people who surrender without a struggle. Such cases are very rare and would deserve severe punishment for the cop.

Quote

Yet I think you may be underestimating the corruption in police departments and how it is reasonable for noncriminal young black inner city males to see police officers as predators they need to defend themselves against.

I agree that police culture is very self-serving, as we see with police unions who defend their own unconditionally in a self-biased manner. This should be reformed and improved.

Any predatory behavior must be reformed. But I think 99% of cops cannot be reasonably called predators or kidnappers. But then again I ain't black and my experiences with police are not from the ghetto. How it works in a ghetto, I dunno.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I have yet to see videos of cops killing people who surrender without a struggle. Such cases are very rare and would deserve severe punishment for the cop.

Part of the problem with that is there is an unfair justice system. What if I’m in a situation in which I have a prior drunk driving arrest and received a disproportionately severe prison sentence. Cops and the justice system are against me. If I get caught drunk in my car, the consequences are disproportionately stacked against me. If I surrender, I’m not going to get a fair shake and I’m going back to the damn prison. That factors into my response of wether I surrender or not.

This is why fairness and trust is so important. Every unfair police encounter and unfair judicial decision breaks the social contract of trust. 

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But then again I ain't black and my experiences with police are not from the ghetto. How it works in a ghetto, I dunno.

Have you ever lived in a society in which you didn’t perceive the police force as being on your side? Rather than protecting you, you perceived them as threatening and to be avoided? I experienced this when I lived in Colombia. It’s a very different dynamic. 

 

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10 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Part of the problem with that is an unfair justice system. What if I’m in a situation in which I have a prior drunk driving arrest and received a disproportionately severe prison sentence. Cops and the justice system are against me. If I get caught drunk in my car, the consequences are disproportionately stacked against me. I’m not going to get a fair shake and I could go back to the damn prison for this. That factors into my response.  

Yes, of course. I totally get that. If you're in poverty you cannot even afford to pay a speeding ticket.

- - - - - - -

More regarding that Rational National video:

We have to recognize that those who are given power are likely to abuse that power. So like the Standford prison experiment showed, people put in positions of power over "criminals" are likely to abuse it. That is a problem deeper than racism.

How do you stop cops from wielding power in a bullying way when they are upset? That's not easy to do. Remember, cops are human and they have egos. If you piss them off, yeah, they will crack your skull just for the satisfaction of it.

It's very difficult to train a cop to be totally fair and neutral, especially under stressful conditions. Being a cop is harder than being a judge. A judge can be neutral in the comfort of his office and high chair. A cop has to be on the streets dealing with punks and idiots all day long. Imagine a judge trying to be neutral while the defendant is spitting in his face and calling him names. The courtroom has the luxury of decorum. And even so, judges are human too and they are not always neutral.

The general problem here is: How do you train highly conscious people who are given lots of power? Any given cop or judge can only be as good and uncorrupted as his level of consciousness and development allows.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

How do you stop cops from wielding power in a bullying way when they are upset? That's not easy to do. Remember, cops are human and they have egos. If you piss them off, yeah, they will crack your skull just for the satisfaction of it.

One thing to consider is that "nice" people don't want to be cops because the working environment is so harsh. I guess if they have to do it in a rich and peaceful neighborhood they would do it. 

So because of limited ressources and manpower people with higher sadistic level might taken in to the force. Comparable to the military. 

As long the country is faced with crime these people with some dark triad might be needed. Ideally we could change the society quickly and don't need them. Still we are not seem to be able to do it in a efficient manner without problematic sideffects.



 

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5 minutes ago, Epikur said:

"nice" people don't want to be cops because the working environment is so harsh.

That's a big part of it.

Cops are self-selected to be more tough-guys than the general population, in the same way that bouncers are selected to be huge dudes. The average person cannot become a bouncer.

If you observe a lot of cops, you'll see that they even share some physical body characteristics. They have a more alpha appearance than the general population. An LSD-taking hippie is not gonna apply to be a cop. Cops needs to be law-and-order types.

Oh, wait! Maybe that's the solution! 10 mandatory trips of LSD for all cops! ;) 


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

Oh, wait! Maybe that's the solution! 10 mandatory trips of LSD for all cops! ;) 

That would be great if that would be so easy. The more "nicer" they become the more they want to quit the job I guess.

Yes bouncers and police are quite comparable. Additionally there is a gratification loop there. These alpha chads seem to get the hotties who like the "alpha" guys. The more they do the job the more addicted they get to the powertrips and girls I guess. Later the habits are to strong to change.

Naval Ravikant says we all have to become scientists. It is a nice idea. I wonder if there is something to it.



 

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8 minutes ago, Epikur said:

That would be great if that would be so easy. The more "nicer" they become the more they want to quit the job I guess.

That's the catch-22. The more conscious you become the less willing you will be to fill roles requiring low consciousness to succeed in them.

Quote

Naval Ravikant says we all have to become scientists. It is a nice idea. I wonder if there is something to it.

That's totally foolish as not all people have the personality type suited to succeed in science. And if everyone became a scientist who would fill all the other roles?

Mankind's strength comes from our ability to specialize into roles.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's the catch-22. The more conscious you become the less willing you will be to fill roles requiring low consciousness to succeed in them.

That's totally foolish as not all people have the personality type suited to succeed in science. And if everyone became a scientist who would fill all the other roles?

I guess it might be a brainwashing with training people with scientific methods and or make it like a religion. Pythagoras seems to have created a pseudo scientific mystic cult.

It reminds me of the programming of the children in asia. Hundreds of millions of poor became middle class. 

When I was a kid my hero was Galileo Galilei that kind of gave me a role model. Even if I could not become a scientist I could think partly like one. So I was able to think more rational than emotional.

I think that was the way till the first world war till the wars happened and people lost their orientation a bit afterwards. 

Discipline, hard work, science may go against our nature that might be a problem. Biologically we are too much still primitiv animals.

But maybe there is a way. Gamification is one great hope. The quality of apps gets so much better. Apps like duolingo to learn languages for example.











 

Edited by Epikur

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30 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's the catch-22. The more conscious you become the less willing you will be to fill roles requiring low consciousness to succeed in them.

There's a difference between being low conscious and being ruthless or tough.

some sages are pretty fucken ruthless. I've heard of some scary stories from some indian gurus and also Jesus. 

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17 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Do you think the United States will end?

My dad is a trump supporter/fan of breitbart news, he's been saying 'the world's finished' since I was a kid, 'germany is finished now that merkel let in all the black cunts', 'the US is finished', etc. 

And you know he's right, he's exactly right, because what's finished is his worldview. But he confuses his worldview for reality.

So when you say will the united states end, what you're actually asking is will your worldview end? 

There is no united states in reality, just whatever ideas you've projected. There is no 'end' either, that's all made up. 

Your version of the united states will probably end, yes. If it hasn't already. 

Edited by electroBeam

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