Psychedelics for Actualization

[Err]

Hi All

I just want to confirm, why do you need psychedelics for Actualization.

I saw the post where Leo is gathering the music and also see many people doing psychedelics. Don't we have to be in present without that external support?

Also none of the enlightened people like Ramana Mahrishi, Nisargadatta Maharaj ever recommended psychedelics nor they consumed as far as I know (Maybe I might be wrong but mostly 99% I am sure). 

What would like to understand why you guys doing psychedelics?

Thanks 

 

[Forestluv]

Not all of us are spiritually gifted like Maharshi or Nisargadatta. I got tired of crawling up the mountain on my belly and chose to take a helicopter. 

“Internal support” vs. “External support” are categories you are creating. Meditators are filled with chemicals, just like someone tripping. Sadhguru is tripping balls while he meditates. 

[Username]

Now you are playing mind games. You are searching for something but don't know what it is. The only way to know if psychodelics are useful for you is taking them at least once.

[Nahm]

The most common alternative in this world appears to be staring at a television. 

[electroBeam]

I'm a millennial, I'm lazy. 

[allislove]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

The most common alternative in this world appears to be staring at a television. 

Lol yes.

TV or psychedelics?
blue pill or red?
Up to you  

Edited June 11, 2020 by dimitri

[dvdas]

I had the same concern as well. 

I spend some years observing them and what I have understood thus far us that they tend to mistake it as a *technology* thinking is faster and better method towards liberation but in actuality they consume substances for years and years with no actual progress in their baseline consciousness. And also their sense of self and self importance is as strong as their conceptual word about what enlightenment is

You will often see these people arguing a lot about what awakening is or who is awakened or not, since they are speaking from the relative. They are also very capable of getting angry and be defensive 

You can just see how far is someone from actual selflessness just from how right they think they are and how serious they're taking themselves.

They think this is a work you have to do, and seems reasonable because it keeps the ego going, it seems they can't realise that this is all about dying

So yea, I believe psychedelics is a great way to deceive yourself because it gives you the sense of pursuing spirituality while keeping the ego going and strong, missing the point that spirituality is not about you. But I think this is also true for meditation and other methods done incorrectly. 

You have to be very careful with that stuff.

"The only work that spiritual purify us is that which is done without personal motives" - Sri Aurobindo

[allislove]

@dvdas some really fair points in your message about danger of self-deception.
The only thing to comment, it seems that you are talking about psy without personal experience, that's the crucial mistake with anything. You can't say how good sex is if you never had sex, or what psy does without doing them, or what it means to jump with parachute without actually doing it. Don't confuse: what you think about something with what actually is  

[dvdas]

@dimitri one does not have to do psychedelics to notice the sense of self importance in a person, in the the same way I dont have to be a millionaire to learn that money does not bring happiness.

Also I never said I haven't done

[allislove]

@dvdas I know that you never said "I haven't done", that's why I wrote "it seems".
Even if you have some experience with them it's clear to me that you didn't use the potential of this tool.
You have to take it not once, not twice, not five times. Also, a lot of things depends on user, not substance.
It's not a magic pill - you have to do the actual work of letting go of your beliefs.

My view on this is that: it's not white or black, this tool can be misused, a lot depends on the user but this is one of the best tools for improving life, for awakening.

[Verg0]

I use them simply because they are by far the most effective tool I discovered for Self-Actualization and Self-Transcendence 

[freeman194673]

I really like this quote

[Err]

19 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Not all of us are spiritually gifted like Maharshi or Nisargadatta. I got tired of crawling up the mountain on my belly and chose to take a helicopter. 

“Internal support” vs. “External support” are categories you are creating. Meditators are filled with chemicals, just like someone tripping. Sadhguru is tripping balls while he meditates. 

Ummm I understand but one day you will have to leave all these drugs isn't it? 

I mean suppose you don't have these available and still, you want to get enlightened. What will we do? 

Suppose I don't do drugs now but I see you guys doing so I also venture in this realm isn't I am adding one more conditioning to my consciousness. 

[Nak Khid]

19 hours ago, Err said:

Hi All

I just want to confirm, why do you need psychedelics for Actualization.

I saw the post where Leo is gathering the music and also see many people doing psychedelics. Don't we have to be in present without that external support?

Also none of the enlightened people like Ramana Mahrishi, Nisargadatta Maharaj ever recommended psychedelics nor they consumed as far as I know (Maybe I might be wrong but mostly 99% I am sure). 

What would like to understand why you guys doing psychedelics?

Thanks 

 

What Leo is focusing on now is " Outrageous Experiments In Consciousness"
He posts about this in the Meditation, Consciousness, Enlightenment, Spirituality forum

not the Self-Actualization forum which is less about spirituality and he seems to be less interested in these days 

Self-Actualization forum
"Main discussion area. General Self-Help, Success, Productivity, Habits, Life Advice, Philosophy, etc."

Meditation, Consciousness, Enlightenment, Spirituality forum
Also includes topics like: Psychedelics, Lucid Dreaming, Alternative Healing, Paranormal, New Age, etc.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Nak Khid

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, Err said:

Ummm I understand but one day you will have to leave all these drugs isn't it? 

I mean suppose you don't have these available and still, you want to get enlightened. What will we do? 

Suppose I don't do drugs now but I see you guys doing so I also venture in this realm isn't I am adding one more conditioning to my consciousness. 

At a personal/human level, what you write is important. If we want to treat the mind and body with care, we don’t want to use substances recklessly or become addicted to them. What if a person has had wonderful experiences on LSD and is miserable without them? If the person starts chasing experiences as an escape of their misery into bliss, this can cause a problem for the person. So I agree that at the human level, we should treat the mind and body kindly. For example, I would not suggest that someone’s first trip be 10 hits of LSD in a crowded train station in New York City. That would be traumatic to the mind and body. 

At a transcendent level to the person / human, what you write has no relevance. in this realm there is no “me”. There is no “my body”. No “my goals and needs”. My story has no more relevance than a spider in Guatemala. 

Notice the idea of “you want to get enlightened”. Who/what is the “you”? The mind may quickly think “Me, of course”. What/who is “me” is actually a very deep area of inquiry and exploration. This inquiry/exploration may allow for the realization that there is no “me” and that there is no “me” to get enlightened. There is no one to get enlightened. . . Also, notice the assumption of enlightenment. What exactly is this enlightenment? If “you” are not enlightened, how do you know what it is? How do you know it even exists? If I asked “Are you debkijed?”. You would have no idea if you are debkijed.

Also notice how you use the term “drug” for psychedelic. That is very revealing about your mind’s relationship with psychedelics. When I lived in Peru, everyone called the psychedelic Ayahuasca “medicine”. They had a very different relationship with psychedelics. For them, it was medicine that allowed healing. . . If you went on a monthlong meditation retreat in a far away beautiful forest filled with lovely flowers and birds chirping, your chemical physiology would be dramatically altered. The neurotransmitters in your brain would be dramatically altered. This altered state of consciousness could allow for a sense of deep relaxation and the appearance of deep insights. Yet you probably wouldn’t call it a “drug” even it you biochemistry and mindset has been altered more than a psychedelic. This is a form of social conditioning in western culture. Altering one’s mindstate through meditation is “natural” meditation-induced state and altering one’s mindstate with psychedelics is an “drug-induced” state.