Dutch guy

Stage Turqoise, Shunyamurti: Nobody has gotten liberation from plant medicine

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Watch three minutes from where this video starts. Shunyamurti, stage turqoise person says: Nobody got liberation from plant medicine. It didn't get Mckenna anywhere.

 

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Again, this confuses things.

The claim is not that psychedelics will get you liberation. The claim is that they give you access the highest levels of consciousness (temporarily) which are virtually impossible to access otherwise.

To say that Terence McKenna wasn't liberated doesn't mean shit. Tons of people who meditate or do yoga or do self-inquiry or Zen aren't liberated either. And virtually no one at Shunyamurti's retreat center is liberated.

It's ironic that liberated teachers denounce psychedelics as ineffective yet they do so at a retreat/workshop which they sell and hold every year which fails to liberate anyone who attends it.

If you're going to criticize psychedelics for failing to liberate, fine. But then I get to trash your retreat/workshop by that same logic.

Whatever you get from attending retreats/workshops or listening to gurus, psychedelics will give it to you faster and more directly. THAT is the key point. And you don't have to pay $2000 for it.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The claim is that they give you access the highest levels of consciousness (temporarily) which are virtually impossible to access otherwise.

In other words, you don't get out of prison.

They're just giving you a weekly or monthly ten minute walk in the prison yard.

Aaaaahhhhhh...the wonderful sunlight....fresh air...birds chirping.

But then it's back to your cell.

Liberation is getting out of prison.

Edited by Haumea2018

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@Haumea2018  They effect baseline consciousness too. Since I started doing psychs my baseline has become a low dose psychedelics state.

I agree they aren't the end all be all. But they are so much more effective then guys like above are giving credit for.

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13 minutes ago, Haumea2018 said:

In other words, you don't get out of prison.

They're just giving you a weekly or monthly ten minute walk in the prison yard.

Aaaaahhhhhh...the wonderful sunlight....fresh air...birds chirping.

But then it's back to your cell.

Liberation is getting out of prison.

No, it's finding out there never was a prison.

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Id it n

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

. Tons of people who meditate or do yoga or do self-inquiry or Zen aren't liberated either. And virtually no one at Shunyamurti's retreat center is liberated.

It's ironic that liberated teachers denounce psychedelics as ineffective yet they do so at a retreat/workshop which they sell and hold every year which fails to liberate anyone who attends it.

Is this not the case for most spiritual retreats and communities? Or is there some that stands out in this manner?


“ In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's mind there are few. ”
― Shunryu Suzuki

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Posted (edited)

I'll take the medicine! If it would only motivate me more, that would be nice. To find out more truth. It seems to cleanse also energetically. And I'll listen to this Shunyamurti too.

 

Edited by Dutch guy

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Raptorsin7 said:

They effect baseline consciousness too. Since I started doing psychs my baseline has become a low dose psychedelics state.

Minimally.  They can only take you so far. I've taken psychedelics that gave me a reset brain for almost 6 months.

The problem is that unless you want to seriously get real with yourself, it quickly becomes a dead-end.  Another ego trap that keeps you chasing your tail.  

1 hour ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I agree they aren't the end all be all. But they are so much more effective then guys like above are giving credit for.

What's the saying...shake it once it's fine...shake it three times and you're playing with yourself?

 

1 hour ago, Gili Trawangan said:

No, it's finding out there never was a prison.

...and then continuing to act as if there is one, in other words a fraud of "thoughts, not deeds."

Edited by Haumea2018

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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

To say that Terence McKenna wasn't liberated doesn't mean shit. Tons of people who meditate or do yoga or do self-inquiry or Zen aren't liberated either. And virtually no one at Shunyamurti's retreat center is liberated.

Still, Shunyamurti himself looks pretty liberated.
I suspect that you don't consider him fully awake, but we're talking permanent consciousness levels here.

Do you know of any psychedelic gurus that are permanently liberated from using these substances?

Edited by tsuki

Understand, then, that it is not because of your righteousness that the LORD, your God, is giving you this good land to possess, for you are a stiff-necked people.
Dt 9:6

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4 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Still, Shunyamurti himself looks pretty liberated.
I suspect that you don't consider him fully awake, but we're talking permanent consciousness levels here.

Leo has changed the definition of fully awake to "only Leo", so of course no such teacher except him exists. :)

Liberation doesn't matter. Being "awake" (as defined by Leo) matters.

Leo has decreed so.

I noticed in that video I watched that it took him much longer to come down from his high than usual.

A person with common sense might take that as a warning sign that one might be getting into dangerous territory.

But with Leo, it's apparently "full steam ahead."

Alrighty then! I guess some people have to learn the hard way.

 

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6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Again, this confuses things.

The claim is not that psychedelics will get you liberation. The claim is that they give you access the highest levels of consciousness (temporarily) which are virtually impossible to access otherwise.

Leo do you ever entertain the line of thought (even for fun/curiosity) that the domain of exploring, reaching levels of consciousness and the domain of liberation are different and irrelevant? And how easy it is to conflate these 2 domains?

Just like how the domain of exploring the depths of the seas, the height of space, the earning of money, the levels of suffering, the number of ice cream eaten etc is irrelevant to the domain of liberation. 

But that doesn't stop people from conflating things and adopt deluded views. Like how a book learner can consider him as 'wise', one with a good physique sees himself as 'strong', one with money and goodies sees himself as 'safe' etc. Where all that wisdom, strength and security can't survive a minute of honest questioning.

If and thats a big IF, the levels of consciousness and liberation turn out to be completely different domains then that means that it'd make you an excellent teacher of exploring and understanding the levels of consciousness, but a horrible teacher of liberation. Like how a good basketball coach would make an excellent basketball teacher but a horrible teacher of liberation domain.


''Not this...

Not this...

PLEASE...Not this...''

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I find speaking of "levels" of consciousness pretty arbitrary and petty, to be frank. 
Always feels like comparing apples with oranges for some reason.
 


Understand, then, that it is not because of your righteousness that the LORD, your God, is giving you this good land to possess, for you are a stiff-necked people.
Dt 9:6

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8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Again, this confuses things.

The claim is not that psychedelics will get you liberation. The claim is that they give you access the highest levels of consciousness (temporarily) which are virtually impossible to access otherwise.

To say that Terence McKenna wasn't liberated doesn't mean shit. Tons of people who meditate or do yoga or do self-inquiry or Zen aren't liberated either. And virtually no one at Shunyamurti's retreat center is liberated.

It's ironic that liberated teachers denounce psychedelics as ineffective yet they do so at a retreat/workshop which they sell and hold every year which fails to liberate anyone who attends it.

If you're going to criticize psychedelics for failing to liberate, fine. But then I get to trash your retreat/workshop by that same logic.

Whatever you get from attending retreats/workshops or listening to gurus, psychedelics will give it to you faster and more directly. THAT is the key point. And you don't have to pay $2000 for it.

Would you still consider some retreats/workshops valuable? If so what value do you think they can bring?

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8 minutes ago, docs20 said:

Would you still consider some retreats/workshops valuable? If so what value do you think they can bring?

They are valuable, but one 5-MeO breakthrough is worth 5 retreats.

Why listen to some guru prattle on about awakening when you can just awaken in 15 mins and experience it yourself? It's a no-brainer.

I talk about orgasms all week long to you, or I can just give you an orgasm and you'll instantly understand.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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5 hours ago, Haumea2018 said:

In other words, you don't get out of prison.

They're just giving you a weekly or monthly ten minute walk in the prison yard.

Aaaaahhhhhh...the wonderful sunlight....fresh air...birds chirping.

But then it's back to your cell.

Liberation is getting out of prison.

Sure, but what does it mean to be liberated and why do you assume Shunyamurti is liberated. Someone who's liberated would be able to see past the duality of altered vs unaltered and the relativity of 'states of consciousness'. To be fully liberated is to be dead, there's levels of liberation, why does everyone assume these guru's are fully liberated? They're not even close, still infinitely far away, this includes Leo and myself. You can't escape it until you realise you were never in the prison and simultaneously, you will always be in the prison and neither.

It seems likely to me that Shunyamurti has never even experienced 5-MeO-DMT, yet he'll denounce it as an 'altered state' and use the argument that Terence McKenna was not awake so therefore this altered state *CANNOT* liberate you. Anyone who's liberated to even a relatively small degree should be open-minded enough to see how ridiculous this reasoning is.


Everything psychedelics

I love you <3

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4 minutes ago, Dand said:

there's levels of liberation

Liberation is total. If it wasn’t it couldn’t be called liberation. There’s no such thing as partial liberation. That’s limited bogus your mind is creating.

You fail to see that there are not and can not be levels to the Absolute. The absolute is absolute. And does not share the limitations of its phenomenal contents.

Liberation is the end of the illusion of being ‘inside the dualistic universe’. That means all dualistic notions and distinctions, including ‘states of consciousness’ are transcended. Consciousness is not a state of consciousness. The key word missing from your dictionary is Transcendence.


https://youtu.be/Ts_WDlgNMoo

Die before you die ^

 

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Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, Haumea2018 said:

Minimally.  They can only take you so far. I've taken psychedelics that gave me a reset brain for almost 6 months.

The problem is that unless you want to seriously get real with yourself, it quickly becomes a dead-end.  Another ego trap that keeps you chasing your tail. 

Getting real with myself feels impossible to me. I do my chinese yoga and meditation and a bit of contemplation. I now understand I am probable very very deeply deluded and don't even know who I am. Ok I have to cut through and it will hurt in the start cause its a huge shift of what I think I am. But I need like a book full of good quesion a very rigorous plan. It feels to much like I am just trying a bit, that won't get me anywhere. Give me like dynamite.

You said look at what you cling too. Ok well when I wake up I really need a cup of coffee. Then too pet my dog for a while and feel the love. Then I need some relaxing by doing 'chinese yoga' . Then a lot of the times I think of my mother who has died not so long ago. Do you mean this sort of clinging? I probable don't even get what you meant, I on a low level now I guess.

Meo probably does have also some of the same insights. If I can just get a peek it will help me motivate myself (and probably more advantages too). Motivation alone is very imporatant and yes I know it will probably have limits.

 

Edited by Dutch guy

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47 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

You fail to see that there are not and can not be levels to the Absolute.

Of course are levels of Absolute.

There cannot not be levels of the Absolute. Otherwise it would be finite and limited.

There are more levels than you can stomach traversing. It is endless.

Whatever you call liberation, there is far more to be conscious of. Liberation is not the same as Infinite Consciousness.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course are levels of Absolute.

There cannot not be levels of the Absolute. Otherwise it would be finite and limited.

There are more levels than you can stomach traversing. It is endless.

The relative is relative. The Absolute stands unchanged. That is why it is so appropriately named the Absolute. Levels only apply in the realm of relativity.

The absolute is the relative. The relative is an appearance in the absolute. Truth is constant. It has to always be present. Otherwise it couldn’t be True.

 


https://youtu.be/Ts_WDlgNMoo

Die before you die ^

 

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31 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There are more levels than you can stomach traversing. It is endless.

I think that this is where Ralston is right about you Leo.
You're lost in the vastness of relativity.


Understand, then, that it is not because of your righteousness that the LORD, your God, is giving you this good land to possess, for you are a stiff-necked people.
Dt 9:6

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