i've been deeply studying self-deception in groups, I need some help

[AminB501]

I think most of the dark corruption takes place at the level of interpretation of facts. Then people in the group seem to not have the intellectual capacity to evaluate the certainty of they're positions, so they sort of stay complacent with the point of view while being horrified about being wrong.

Do you know about something about this? Do you know any ways to go straight to the root of whatever we are studying and get the truth instead of the falsehood?

[Leo Gura]

#1: There has to be a genuine desire for truth above all else.

#2: There has to be radical openmindedness

#3: There has to be a desire to question absolutely everything, every premise, every assumption, no matter how basic.

[Nahm]

@AminB501

I would suggest what you’re looking for would be missed in the logic of it’s relation to their “intellectual capacity”, but found in honestly, conscience, and feeling. The relative point of focus in kind would not be your intellect, but your presence. 

[silene]

Group dynamics is a powerful influence, drilled into us from an early age in family life to 'fit in' for meeting our survival needs. We need a radical honesty with ourselves and clear self-insight to ensure, as Leo says, we are searching for Truth. Rather than other motives, like believing in group-think to  deceive ourselves and gain approval in the community. Cults encourage self-deception to hand over authority to the leadership; questioning everything on our own authority is the opposite of that. 

[AminB501]

@Nahm I haven't really understood you. Do you mean that they're the way they are because they're not present?

What I mean is that if someone is going to get deceived in this world, it is the guy who doesn't have the ability to see the deception coming, and to evaluate validate what he is being told about. For example, extremists are not extremists because they love it, in fact, they probably feel horrible most of the time and hate living, but they're not conscious enough to find the truth, and they're very afraid of trying to.

The worst is that deceivers build fear threads to the deceived people for them to not scape. For example, high school bands, sometimes they tell people who're going to leave them that they will never find someone who cares about them, in fact, I got told that by bullies that I knew in high school.

Edited March 31, 2020 by AminB501

[Nahm]

@AminB501

If there are “deceivers”, then you’re kind of screwed, because you may or may not come across one again, and you’re at the whim of chance. If you separate the behaviors & actions, from who they really are, it is not possible to come across “a deceiver” again. You would see their self deception a mile away.  This points to self discovery, honestly, conscience, and feeling, on one’s own behalf, rather than attempting to resolve thoughts about other people with more thinking about other people. That, is inherently self deceptive.

If the event with the band feels terrible to you, inspect your own direct experience of what’s going on. Let go of trying to resolve “the deceivers of the world”, and notice it is not what they did or said which results in the terrible feeling, it is the thought about yourself, which is not true, and therefore does not resound in your being, does not resonate. Don’t label the feeling, discard the belief.  You might see their experience as the same. That they are holding beliefs about themselves which are not true, and it does not feel good. They behave from ‘fear’, which is resolved by more deeply knowing themselves, which means inspecting feeling, and honesty, ‘sorting out one’s conscience’.

@kieranperez ‘s post here is incredibly brave & insightful in this regard.  https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/47043-adhd-is-a-serious-issue-on-the-self-actualization-path/#comment-595830

 

[AminB501]

@Nahm thank you, but the example I have you from school was years ago, is a thing of the past but I thought it will make the point.

[VeganAwake]

Empty your glass... go into a study completely empty...drop any bias and prenotions on the topic. Yes, stay open minded and grounded simultaneously.

"The greatest obstacle to Discovery is not ignorance, its the illusion of knowledge"...... thinking you already have the answer will block the truth from being recognized.

[Nahm]

@AminB501 

Yes, I’m saying seeing what’s going on in you is insightful to being able to see what’s going on in the individuals in the groups you’re studying. The truth isn’t in ‘something you’re studying’.

[Peter124]

@AminB501 youre tricking yourself into thinking you are tricking yourself.

You are tricking yourself.

You devil.