inFlow

Who is getting feared?

16 posts in this topic

I still can't understand this. There is fear, but who or what is getting feared? Would like to get a spiritual answer. Thank you.


Mahadev

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There is no who, that implies a person, but there is no such thing. But instead of just believing that you can check that easily yourself. Can you find a person/self, whatever that's supposed to mean to you, that is afraid? It could make the fear a little less personal when you see there isn't a person, but at least in my experience it doesn't eliminate the fear.
I suppose you could say it is consciousness/spirit that freaks out at times

Edited by Waken

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@Waken Yes there is nobody, but still there is fear somehow. Terrible fear of death and not being "here" with everyone else. 

I had a psychedelic trip recently where I talked with myself and I understood how much of a devil I was, and it felt like the self was confessing how much it was a devil to God. I confessed every shit and suffering that I made to others, that I was no angel and I had to go through a lot. And when I said that I have done so much shit to everyone else then It felt like I had an insight that all my karma was inside my body somewhere locked up. This conversation with myself shook my body so much, I started to shake very rapidly and I felt that heat was being generated with that shaking, and that shaking was so deep, like to the bone. Even my heart rate went up to like 130 BMP instantly (not so much that it would mean death) but that was frightening and the only thing I thought about was death. And IDK if my survival mechanism kicked in or what but I just wanted to stay alive. And as I was in fear I thought about why am I in fear, what is being feared. That totally interrupted my trip...


Mahadev

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Be careful, the ego is the one who believes that there is no ego haha. When asking the question, "who is getting scared" instead of answering this question with "spiritual" answers, realise that you are the one who sees all answers in your actual direct experience...then see everything, and realise that none of it is you. Do not believe this, look for yourself and see. Intuition, intuition, intuition ♥️

Edited by Aaron p

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1 hour ago, inFlow said:

@Waken Yes there is nobody, but still there is fear somehow. Terrible fear of death and not being "here" with everyone else. 

I had a psychedelic trip recently where I talked with myself and I understood how much of a devil I was, and it felt like the self was confessing how much it was a devil to God. I confessed every shit and suffering that I made to others, that I was no angel and I had to go through a lot. And when I said that I have done so much shit to everyone else then It felt like I had an insight that all my karma was inside my body somewhere locked up. This conversation with myself shook my body so much, I started to shake very rapidly and I felt that heat was being generated with that shaking, and that shaking was so deep, like to the bone. Even my heart rate went up to like 130 BMP instantly (not so much that it would mean death) but that was frightening and the only thing I thought about was death. And IDK if my survival mechanism kicked in or what but I just wanted to stay alive. And as I was in fear I thought about why am I in fear, what is being feared. That totally interrupted my trip...

Yes these things we do to others and even issues and fears are all karma and is locked up or stored inside of the body and our being. That is why we are contracted and cut of from the true self. That causes us to think there is a separate me inside the body but it's just energy patterns running inside out body and subconscious mind.

Why when you do spiritual work and energy practices you clear that karma/crap that we have gathered from this life time and other lifetimes so we can connect to our true self that will shine though and the illusion will be seen through.

Also there is just fear but the ego claims it's mine and the illusion is born of you that is fearful but it's just your true self/consciousness conscious of fear that is arising in you so to speak.

Edited by Joker_Theory

"Your the left eye and i am the right would it not be madness to fight, WE COME ONE." - Faithless

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Just had my first full blown 20mg 5meo smoked breakthrough lol. Everything feels pretty funky lol 

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Very nice, care to share your experience or what you experiencing now? Are you God or conscious of God?


"Your the left eye and i am the right would it not be madness to fight, WE COME ONE." - Faithless

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nope, it'll take much more for me to realise what reality is. I'll need a slower, longer, more powerful trip. It happens to fast for me to retain a lot of it...im gona need to get good at plugging DPT. My bigget realization in this trip was that there are deep levels to go. heres my report:

 

Edited by Aaron p

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The whole no self response to this of 'there is nobody here' often is impractical and empty rhetoric in the way we live our lives.

Fear is an instinctual response generated by the biological organism to motivate behavior to protect it's own life in a primal response.

The self conscious also generates certain 'fear' impulses to protect us from what it perceives as dangerous situations that may not be an immediate or current threat but could be in the mind's imagination.

Then there is the fear that the ego generates to protect it's identity and this is rarely about keeping the body safe and alive but is typically more about preserving the narrative of identity.

So some of the who is those different aspects of our physical experience but then another aspect of the who question is 'who' are these being generated for? To motivate 'who'?

Our awareness is the 'who' that is observing all of this going on and it can initiate a course of action with all these generated influences serving as the information database to guide...or disregard if one sees fit.

Even if we are of the perspective that there is no 'who' in awareness and no 'free will' that initiates any action we still have to behave in a way that allows us to navigate in the world successfully. So how do we guide our behavior if there is no 'free will who' in whoville? The bus is coming at us do we jump? The alley is dark ahead of us do we walk? The boss is jerk to us do we speak?

It doesn't matter if we hold the mystical belief there is no self, that's an abstract concept meant to help free our awareness from the lure of attachment to what is generated by the body, self conscious and ego but we can still cease to attach to it without the belief concept.

If we do hold the perspective that there is a 'who' in awareness we can still remain in awareness unattached as an observer to the influences generated by the body. So if someone tells you the only way to be unattached is to see it as no self they are attached to the concept of no self.

After all this examination and exploration there is one thing that is clear, there is an aware being at the core of all the conscious activity for each one of us and all the mystical conceptualization doesn't erase it from being......an aware being.

Edited by SOUL

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6 hours ago, inFlow said:

I still can't understand this. There is fear, but who or what is getting feared? 

This can be a challenging thing to face, since fear triggers maximum resistance to observing. If I am feeling blissful laying on a beach in Belize, there is very little resistance of being now. Since I'm blissful, I don't want to change my conditions - I like the conditions of Now. So it is much easier to relax the mind and ask "who or what is experiencing bliss?". It would be lovely to lay on the beach feeling blissful and contemplate the nature of bliss. . . .Sign me up!

Yet it is a very different scenario if I am chained up in a dungeon and a man enters with knives and a bottle of Hydrochloric Acid. Here the mind and body is flooded with fear. The is an intense desire to change one's conditions. The mind and body will strongly resist observing the fear and contemplating "who or what is experiencing fear?".

When the mind and body is not directly experiencing fear, it is much easier to contemplate fear - yet there is a limitation. The tendency is for the mind to create all sorts of thought theories about fear. This can have some practical value, yet it will be at a surface level - unless it is coupled to extra-ordinary imagination - which most beings lack. One can practice to develop this skill or psychedelics can breakthrough this barrier.

For example, I recently watched prisoners describe their experience in solitary confinement. At the start of the video, I didn't feel any fear or discomfort. I let my mind and body relax and allow space. What is "real" vs "imagined" began to dissolve. With time, intense fear arose to the point of insanity and panic. . . There were very energetic dynamics at play in which we could roughly describe in two categories. There was identification to the fear and panic. There was a sense that "I" was experiencing fear and panic. There was a strong desire to stop the video and do something else. As well, there was a "meta awareness" observing the fear and panic. To this awareness, it is not something to avoid. Through this observation, deep insights may arise - yet it's challenging to do because it's the last thing the mind and body wants to do. It is much easier to observe bliss when one is blissful because it's the first thing the mind and body wants to do. 

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@Serotoninluv well I didnt panic and react to the fear a lot, but yet there was fear, so I just thought why is there fear, I can feel it but why IS it? And what is so being feared? Actually I observed that I was in fear and it kinda made me think how can I overcome it. Or is fear just the same as happyness? Just the different meaning my mind projects thus getting different cause/effect?


Mahadev

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4 minutes ago, inFlow said:

@Serotoninluv And what is so being feared? 

From what I've observed, most fear boils down to survival. If something is perceived as a threat to survival (of mind, body or self), fear often arises. I see it mostly as a protective mechanism. 

A simple example: if I told you right now that someone was stalking me and trying to murder me, would you experience fear? 

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Just now, inFlow said:

@Serotoninluv can you transcend fear? Does fear grow smaller with consciousness growth?

The appearance of fear still arises (yet much less frequently and with less intensity). I'm much better at managing fear, anxiety etc because there is meta awareness of the fear. Yet sometimes the patterns are deeply ingrained and I need some help to release patterns and recondition my mind. . . . For example, one night last June a very loud ringing started in my head. I had no idea what it was and I couldn't stop it. I experienced a lot of fear and went into panic zones. Full on "fight or flight". I could think "the ringing in my head is not threatening, I can relax" - yet this rational thinking did little good. I ended up getting EMDR therapy, which helped change my relationship to the ringing. An underlying issue was an ingrained conditioned belief of "I can't make it stop and it will never end". . . The therapist led me via lucid states into earlier times in my life in which "I can't make it stop and this will never end". This was a "trigger" for the mind-body's fight or flight response. With time, I was able to release this subconscious dynamic. . . The ringing hasn't stopped, yet my relationship to it is no longer fear, anxiety and panic,. . . I would say my new relationship with the ringing is "annoyance", which is much better than fear/anxiety/panic.

This is just one example of a patterned fear response. There are many others. And I suppose there are many views about how fear is not patterned, it is created and arises in the moment. 

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