Omg this is so awesome, this girl was basically born enlightened haha

[blankisomeone]

Must be so peaceful inside her head

 

[Nahm]

Nice video.  “It doesn’t naturally happen”...that’s the key. 

[electroBeam]

I don't have an internal dialogue either, but I'm no where near enlightened or peaceful.

Thoughts are communicated through feeling for me. 

I thought this was everyone? You know how when someone is trying to communicate something and they say "whats that word again im trying to remember?" How the fuck does that work if internal dialogue is fundamental?

Also how do babies think(before learning a language) if internal dialogue is fundamental?

My interpretation of the video is she has an ego, but it's much more subtle and less gross then someone stuck listening to verbal dialogue.

I think people who have an internal dialogue was conditioned to do that due to an overstimulated sensory experience as a kid. But this is not natural and shouldn't be normal - putting aside whether this is related to ego or not.

Language was invented, not biologically constructed. How was language invented if language is needed to think? Seems like a silly idea that internal dialogue is fundamental to cognition hahaha. 

Edited February 16, 2020 by electroBeam

[blankisomeone]

@electroBeam Yeah man. Internal dialogue is literal insanity. Internal dialogue goes on in my head nonstop. And I can hear my thoughts almost like I can hear sounds. Like, thoughts can distract me like actual sounds can distract me, sometimes even more than sounds. (AND I THOUGHT LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING ON THIS PLANET WAS LIKE THAT?) But after I started practicing meditation, I understand the uselessness of these internal dialogues. The internal dialogues still happen in my head a lot and they still rob a lot of energy from me, but I don’t take them too seriously anymore. But if they just disappeared for good, like it seems to be for you and the girl in the video, that’d be awesome hahah

Edited February 16, 2020 by blankisomeone

[Robert Leavitt]

You know it's amazing.  I don't have an internal dialogue anymore, but I had to actively work to stop thinking. Through meditation, and a process called thought stopping.   I started disagreeing with all the nonsense I was thinking on a regular basis.  It took about 2 months of heavy work.  I still have thoughts, but .. it's nothing like it was.  It's not a bunch of nonsense constant criticism and bickering (or worrying about the future, or dwelling in the past),  A lot of judgements and assumptions.  Tons of denial... I was psychotic and most people are (They just don't know it because they believe every thought they have).  I was delusional just making up stories about people and myself all day long.  I'm no different than the vast majority of people either.  I still make up stories sometimes now, but I make them AWESOME stories.

Anyway you can change it, it takes practice but you can totally change it, and it's awesome.  I live a super peaceful life now, it's amazing.

 I can tell you for a fact, that it is not necessary to think anything to listen to what someone else is saying.

[wavydude]

@Robert Leavitt Can you tell more about this "thought stopping procces" and how you worked to silence the thoughts ? 

Edited February 16, 2020 by wavydude

[DocHoliday]

Definetely a very interesting video to watch, but this doesn't really have anything to do with enlightenment per se in the sense that she's somehow conscious of her true nature or anything like that. It's just that the way she thinks is kinda different to how most of us would think or "use our mind". 

Edited February 16, 2020 by DocHoliday
Reason for edit: typos and stuff

[blankisomeone]

@DocHoliday Yeah haha. The title I came up with for this post doesn’t make much sense. It’s just that I’ve been so identified with my inner voice that when I manage to quiet it down through meditation, it feels like I’ve attained something so wonderful. But that’s just one part of myself that I briefly detached from, not that I’ve become enlightened or something.

The girl in this video seems to use her mind in much more efficient ways, I’d say. Most of my days are spent in fantasy land getting lost inside my own head.

I don’t know if it’s true or not, but I’ve heard that MOST people actually DON’T have an internal dialogue, and that it’s us that do that are the crazy ones in this story haha

[Nahm]

Great opportunity to contemplate enlightenment, vs self realization. 

[Bittu]

I once asked a guy who was born deaf, his brother is a friend of mine and can communicate with sign language.

So I asked him "In what language do you think in?"

He couldn't answer the question. Surely he also thinks in visual concepts or emotions, etc. 

 

[Bittu]

10 hours ago, Robert Leavitt said:

Tons of denial... I was psychotic and most people are (They just don't know it because they believe every thought they have).

You summed up my experience with my "Mental health problems".

Reality is a hallucination.

[purerogue]

I guess I am somewhere in the middle, my mind does not go crazy all the time, but it is not like there are no thoughts. 

Not sure what is even more annoying. not knowing your thoughts ,  or knowing, most of the stuff is subconscious, so it is more of a matter of hearing them or no. 

Edited February 16, 2020 by purerogue

[Nahm]

@Raptorsin7 

This video is a very insightful example of what we were talking about in your journal, the woman who was missing her underlying assumption about thought. If you first adopt the perspective, before you watch this video, of the female as the “guru“, and the male as the “student“, (for the first 1/2 of the video) it reveals all of what “I’m” talking about. Try to view it as if every single word he is saying is a write off, or, cover up, labeling, excusing, overthinking, over talking, etc. Because he is not inspecting any of this, one broad stroke label gets applied, that’s just how she is, and this is just how I am. Identification, the meta-cover-up if you will. 

Almost halfway through the video, at 5:50, you can literally watch her, in the protection of his idea of his separate self, actually label herself with a diagnosis created by someone who has no idea what they’re talking about. “This is a separate thing...just some thing that we found out”. “Thing”, in one’s thoughts, it’s one of the slipperiest write off’s. Notice it lead to “you have no ability to imagine things...you have no mind’s eye”. Imagine how damaging group think could get from that one statement alone. People identifying with it, etc. As a relative distinction, yes. As a diagnosis & something to identify with, huge blunder. The difference between no mind and self realization could have been glimpsed, but Instead, they “group think” in their agreement to label her, a “condition“. Notice at 6:00, all of this begins to be “credited” to “a brain”...like, it’s not just a thought I’m believing...it’s “the brain”.  “The brain” makes a great write off, but a lousy entity which is responsible for experience (because it isn’t).  

At around 7:00, there’s the “cover up” (beliefs) of time and space used. They discuss how she can’t see him “in her mind”, only when he is right in front of her. Is this a diagnosable anomaly? Or is it because they aren’t realizing there is a difference between perception “of something”, and a thought about that something? (Then of course, ultimately no difference). That is a fulcrum, if you will, because if thought and perception were inspected, the fact that there is no objective reality would be revealed. If that’s revealed, there’s no more separate self. “You might as well learn facts about things that do exist”, which she agree’s to “yeah, exactly”. They’re creating and sharing a paradigm. It’s adorable, but the suffering is not as cute. In his mistaking a thought for perception, fear is more present, efforting such as a need to remember accurately is increased, etc. She even gives him the message with “red”, then she succumbs to his arrogance of “knowing the facts”. Again, relatively speaking, he strikes me as a kind and intelligent person. This pointing is for you, to the “deeper” seeing that was difficult to put to with words in your journal. Hopefully it is kept in context (or all context entirely removed). 

Video wise, unfortunately all of this is written off with ‘brain’, not noticing it’s personifying, group thinking, suppressing, deflecting & projecting, and identifying. There is nothing “wrong” with any of it. It’s entirely relative to one’s own suffering and stubbornness vs willingness, to be on the path of love (truth) & fear (beliefs). Some would say (8:15 ish) that nightmares are an indicator, the “subconscious” telling you something, at the least. Not to say he is arrogant...but for the sake of seeing this, that is arrogance. It is a Good sense, this is Good to see & realize. Liberation only feels bad, if the feeling is ignored, and the rejection in thinking is believed.  In the other sense, Nahm is a heartless prick. If so, albeit a blissed out fool. Is the half circle the point of focus, or the full circle?  In one there appears to be a Nahm, in the other there is not. Notice the inward vs outward ‘movement’.

At 9:20, that “in a box reference...”...she doesn’t realize, it’s literally actually true. This “box” is becoming in accordance with her consciousness, so to speak (inseparable). Check out the movie What Dreams May Come. Great example of how this plays out, and what one can do relatively, and can not do, for another. It really points out the potential of group think, as ...“couple think”....?

On his behalf... (9:40) “makes it hard for me to sleep...hard for me to focus...and it does make me jealous”. A good example of ignoring the message that is the feeling, and believing “the facts”. If he were to inspect, just that one thought & feeling...ohhhhh, everything begins to change, trajectory; awakening. 

...10:25 ish, she mentions the feeling, embarrassment...and immediately writes it off to the assumption she is “the female”. Had there been inspection, there would not be “embarrassment” anymore. 11:00...”when I finally look at myself in the mirror...I’m like (makes disgusted face)”. How many ‘woman’ are living this way, every single day? The suffering is, well, outrageous. The love is greater. Always, always, always. 

When / if the perspective/feeling arises, that what is being stated here is unfriendly and harsh towards him, as in critical and unkind… remember what we are actually talking about here. There is no him. There is no him to defend. There is no her. There is no her to label. There is just a lot of overthinking to continue pretending that there is.  All of the overthinking, is ‘movement’ away from, feeling. The distinctions are something they are creating, but they do not realize this. I’m hoping you see it, and if they read this, I hope they see it too. It is Good. If he began the inspection and healing work, “he“ would absolutely love the discovery. 

I know it is probably practically impossible for the majority of this not to come off like I am ripping on them, or judging them. They’re lovely, I love them. I know them like myself. It’s just commentary that is heard or unheard, and all the same. 

[Raptorsin7]

@Nahm I understand. I don't like these kinds of fake intellectual people I think they are idiot/bs pretenders. Why are you afraid to call people out for not being on the path? When I hear people talk about something that I can tell they clearly don't understand I mentally note that they are idiots. This habit has gotten magnified since I started on the path haha, but it's better than the alternative for me which is assuming people know what they are talking about, and others' opinions about reality should be trusted at face value.

I clearly see the problem with their perspectives, and I have no desire to be like either of them.

But again lol. I don't understand how this pertains to me, and the inspection work/emotional scale/thinking-feeling relationship. I clearly have misguided assumptions underlying thinking that is creating suffering, but how to see through it decisively is another story. I can puncture the narrative in the mind with presence pretty reliably now, but when i come to the present i don't feel bliss/love/joy etc. I just get relief from being lost in thinking about myself. 

[Nahm]

@Raptorsin7 I sure hope you are not hearing what I’m saying as they are idiots, fake, or that there is any problem whatsoever with them or how they are experiencing. Also, I don’t experience in that way honestly, “afraid of calling people out”. Quite the opposite. Definitely not trying to “call people out”. 

[Raptorsin7]

@Nahm Yeah I know you are not saying that. I am saying that. 

I'm talking about if someone watches that video and assumes those two have the game of life figured out. There labels around her condition, the conceptions about the brain, their attitude/disposition. I used to do that, I assumed most people had it figured out and the way they operated was normal and the way to do things. Now i realize that I was wrong, and very few people are living how I would want to live. So i classify everyone not living how I want to live as idiots. 

I understand that you don't do any of this, but there is also a progression. I cannot go from where I am now to cosmic consciousness over night.

I also see the arrogance/ego/toxicity in my own perspective here lol. But i prefer this to my old habit of being overly nice/understanding etc which was completely fake and not authentic.

Edited February 16, 2020 by Raptorsin7

[Nahm]

@Raptorsin7

Indeed. You might say that I didn’t mention cosmic consciousness or ‘getting there overnight’. It might seem like I did. To recognize what you used to do, and then judge them as idiots for doing it, does not feel so good. If my aim was the greatest feelings possible, I’d inspect that and likely be all the more compassionate, aka, ‘in’ Love, for having done so. You, were not, “wrong”. That, is self referential thinking in the sense, judging yourself. Nothing “wrong” with anything, or where anyone, is ‘at’. 

Only in the context of having said that previously.....

”I understand that you don't do any of this, but there is also a progression. I cannot go from where I am now to cosmic consciousness over night.”

In a way, ya, you kind of can. Because there is nothing to acquire, nowhere to ‘get to’. There is only, in this regard, to surrender beliefs, judgements, of self & other. Because this is not a ‘doing’, it can be done, any time. 

[Raptorsin7]

@Nahm Why is there discomfort or resistance to surrender? I understand your point here, I can just be present and allow whatever arises to just be. But it doesn't feel like love/bliss/joy. It feels uncomfortable, and there is a push to go back into thinking/distraction and away from the discomfort of the moment.

[Nahm]

@Raptorsin7 To use a thought to make a precise statement (not to “pick on you”)... 

The thought arises...”they are idiots”.  Feeling says “nope. No sir”  Intellect says “but I’m right though!”. Feeling says, “nope. Sorry, but no”. Intellect says, “ok, I’m wrong!”. Feeling says, “nope, super sorry but no sir”. Intellect says “why?!?!? What gives then!!!?”. Feeling says, “judgment...of other, & self”. 

Except feeling can’t “say anything”...so to speak....so there is this twoness, this “thinking”. 

By and large.....Feeling says “let’s not use this thinking for judging”......Thinking: “fuck you”.  Feeling...”ok, buuuuttt....how does that feel ?”  Thinking: “it’s beginning to feel like we’re in this together, as one”. Feeling...”♥️”.

[Raptorsin7]

@Nahm Lol that makes a lot of sense. "I" love doing it this way haha. So judgement is at the root here? I know I judge a lot, and I see it in my family, judgement of self and other is basically the name of the game for all my relatives.