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Beginner Mind

Leo's take on Surrender

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31 minutes ago, Matt8800 said:

@Beginner Mind I think Taoism explains it best as not straining or forcing thinks against the flow of the Tao BUT Taoism says that we should use our full effort, without forcing, to flow WITH the Tao. Flowing with the Tao is another way of saying surrendering to the Tao.

"Flow with the Tao" sounds beautiful and all, but actually applying this wisdom is easier said than done.  Knowing what direction the Tao is flowing is often not clear.  How do you flow with something that isn't visible?  When making an important life decision, how do you know what the Tao wants for you?

Edited by Beginner Mind

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@Nahm This stuff is a little over my head at the moment but maybe someday it'll click.  I appreciate your guidance. :)

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@Beginner Mind ?? That’s a thought. That’s how sneaky thought is. There’s nothing over your head. You are the awareness, of that thought. One little thought about awareness...and “it’s not me”. It’s you though. :) Notice, if you don’t believe there’s something you’re not getting here....then there isn’t. 

No need be “flowing with the Tao”.

Just casually begin to notice, the believing of thoughts. ]

The next thought that arises...don’t do anything with it. Don’t express it, or communicate it, or anything. Notice, it came, and it goes. 


MEDITATIONS TOOLS  ActualityOfBeing.com  GUIDANCE SESSIONS

NONDUALITY LOA  My Youtube Channel  THE TRUE NATURE

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@Beginner Mind This is another view. If it resonates, great. If not, dismiss it.

One type of relationship with thoughts is that they are merely appearances. From this perspective, we wouldn't give anymore relevance to thoughts than bird chirps. . . . Which has more relevance: frogs croaking or birds chirping? It's a silly question. However, when we ask "Which has more relevance: my thoughts or bird chirps?", it is a very different question, due to our engagement, attachment and identification to the thought stories. Thoughts can be very alluring and mesmerizing. . . . Thoughts about right and wrong, thoughts about who I am, what I need to do, how life works and on and on. . . 

There is nothing "wrong" with thought stories, yet we cam become immersed within them that we miss out on other stuff. I think we've all had situations in which we become "lost in thought" and miss out on other appearances. Imagine walking in nature with a mind that is consumed with worrying over work or trying to figure things out. . . That mindset will miss out on a lot. Now imagine walking through nature for an hour without a single thought. An awareness would be revealed. Reality is not dependent on my thought stories. There is a lot more going on. . . This seems to fit in with Leo's latest video on implicit and explicit understanding. The mind is conditioned to try and figure things out explicitly through thoughts, language and logic. Yet there is implicit stuff that cannot be understood through language, thoughts and logic. Often this manifests as "Ah ha!!" moments of direct experience in which there is an understanding that cannot be explicitly explained through language. When this form of realization is revealed, the mind may think "wth just happened??!!. . . Maybe it means. . . Maybe that was what Tolle was talking about. . . Was it real? Or was it imagined?". This is the mind's effort to get a sense of grounding through explicit explanation, yet doing so can detract from deepening one's implicit understanding. 

The mind is often conditioned toward explicit understanding through thoughts, language and explanation. Ime, letting go of this mental tendency is helpful to allow space for implicit realizations. Yet at first, this can feel uncomfortable because the mind and body is so conditioned to figure things out explicitly.  

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@Nahm I think I've really underestimated how much time I spend thinking and how much I believe thoughts.  There's often an internal dialogue, like "You shouldn't have done that" followed by another thought, "No doubt, that was a bad move."  There's like multiple voices inside my head sometimes. It's kinda funny but also a little crazy. 

I'll try not to take my thoughts seriously in the coming hours and see how it goes.

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1 minute ago, Beginner Mind said:

I'll try not to take my thoughts seriously in the coming hours and see how it goes.

??

 


MEDITATIONS TOOLS  ActualityOfBeing.com  GUIDANCE SESSIONS

NONDUALITY LOA  My Youtube Channel  THE TRUE NATURE

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@Serotoninluv I like the idea of treating thoughts as mere appearances, but that's easier said than done because as you said, thoughts are very alluring.  And some thoughts are harmless and seem absolutely true.  For example, just a few minutes ago the thought occurred: "I don't know if I'll go for a walk today, I'm a little tired."  As far as I can tell, there's nothing wrong with that thought.  Seems true enough.  Perhaps the key is to be vigilant in recognizing which thoughts are worthy of believing and which thoughts should be discarded?

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1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

Reality is not dependent on my thought stories.

I had an epiphany recently that relates to this.  I was sitting in my room, looking around, and I realized that I was not experiencing the room as it actually exists.  Rather, I'm experiencing my interpretation of the room, through the filter of labels and concepts.  So the question arose: "What is the nature of this moment when I'm not interpreting it?"  And for a brief moment, I experienced a sense of peace, perhaps "the peace that passes understanding" (I can't be sure), but it was very pleasant.

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47 minutes ago, Beginner Mind said:

@Serotoninluv   just a few minutes ago the thought occurred: "I don't know if I'll go for a walk today, I'm a little tired."  As far as I can tell, there's nothing wrong with that thought.  Seems true enough.  

To me, this seems to be perception through a thought filter that is controlling the internal narrative.

Would you think: "Just a few minutes ago, the sound 'chirp chirp' occurred. As far as I can tell, there's nothing wrong with that sound. It seems true enough". . . . Of course there is nothing "wrong" with the occurrence of the sound "chirp chirp", likewise there is nothing "wrong" with the occurrence of a thought - any thought.  The mind can become attached/identified to thoughts relative to a "me" construct. Relative to me, "chirp chirp" is irrelevant. Yet relative to me, the thought "I don't know if I'll go for a walk today" is relevant. 

As well, are these thoughts necessary? And what do thoughts distract us from? . . . Yesterday morning, I looked out the window and it was snowing. There was a connection to the snowfall. There was no thinking "Maybe I'll go for a walk". There was no analysis of which thoughts about snowfall ore true or false. There was no analysis of whether such thoughts are harmful. There weren't even thoughts. There was simply "empty looking". This allowed space for other phenomena to appear. There was an appreciation for the snowfall's beauty. Each snowflake was so delicate and intimate. There was a sense of nostalgia that appeared. There was an attraction to be closer to the snowfall. This is all without thinking. Simply Being. . . .Then I continued my day - doing some laundry. Again, a sense of attraction to snowfall arose, without my mind thinking about it and defining it. . . And it turns out a couple hours later, my mind and body put on a bunch of winter gear to go outside. The feeling was like a child that has a snow day and gets to go out and play - yet there were no thoughts like this. The mind and body went out into nature. Snowballs were thrown at trees. A snow angel was made. Many nonverbal essences and energetics appeared. Intuition, empathic connection to nature - without thoughts trying to figure out what was happening or how to define it. . . . The mind and body can easily get along with 10% of one's current thoughts. A good experiment is to get allow the body to do it's thing without thoughts. Sometimes, my mind goes a couple hours without thoughts - miraculously the body does just fine. . . 

31 minutes ago, Beginner Mind said:

I had an epiphany recently that relates to this.  I was sitting in my room, looking around, and I realized that I was not experiencing the room as it actually exists.  Rather, I'm experiencing my interpretation of the room, through the filter of labels and concepts.  So the question arose: "What is the nature of this moment when I'm not interpreting it?"  And for a brief moment, I experienced a sense of peace, perhaps "the peace that passes understanding" (I can't be sure), but it was very pleasant.

Yes, this is getting at something more fundamental. 

With the question "What is the nature of this moment when I'm not interpreting it?". . . Be aware if the mind tries to create a new thought story about the nature of this moment without thought stories. . . 

It seems like in that brief moment, a direct experience arose. A form of nonverbal connection/resonance. 

You say "I experienced a sense of peace" - then try to explain it as "the peace that passes understanding" - followed by "I can't be sure".

What are you unsure about? Are you unsure of the sense of peace? Or are you unsure how to make sense of and explain that sense of peace?

You may resonate with Leo's recent video on implicit and explicit understanding. 

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2 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

To me, this seems to be perception through a thought filter that is controlling the internal narrative.

Would you think: "Just a few minutes ago, the sound 'chirp chirp' occurred. As far as I can tell, there's nothing wrong with that sound. It seems true enough". . . . Of course there is nothing "wrong" with the occurrence of the sound "chirp chirp", likewise there is nothing "wrong" with the occurrence of a thought - any thought.  The mind can become attached/identified to thoughts relative to a "me" construct. Relative to me, "chirp chirp" is irrelevant. Yet relative to me, the thought "I don't know if I'll go for a walk today" is relevant. 

As well, are these thoughts necessary? And what do thoughts distract us from? . . . Yesterday morning, I looked out the window and it was snowing. There was a connection to the snowfall. There was no thinking "Maybe I'll go for a walk". There was no analysis of which thoughts about snowfall ore true or false. There was no analysis of whether such thoughts are harmful. There weren't even thoughts. There was simply "empty looking". This allowed space for other phenomena to appear. There was an appreciation for the snowfall's beauty. Each snowflake was so delicate and intimate. There was a sense of nostalgia that appeared. There was an attraction to be closer to the snowfall. This is all without thinking. Simply Being. . . .Then I continued my day - doing some laundry. Again, a sense of attraction to snowfall arose, without my mind thinking about it and defining it. . . And it turns out a couple hours later, my mind and body put on a bunch of winter gear to go outside. The feeling was like a child that has a snow day and gets to go out and play - yet there were no thoughts like this. The mind and body went out into nature. Snowballs were thrown at trees. A snow angel was made. Many nonverbal essences and energetics appeared. Intuition, empathic connection to nature - without thoughts trying to figure out what was happening or how to define it. . . . The mind and body can easily get along with 10% of one's current thoughts. A good experiment is to get allow the body to do it's thing without thoughts. Sometimes, my mind goes a couple hours without thoughts - miraculously the body does just fine. . .

 This whole passage is gold.  And your experience with the snow is inspiring. 

There is definitely a "me" construct here, even though Nahm showed me that no such entity actually exists.  This "me" somehow continually recreates itself from moment to moment.  Perhaps I need to reflect a little more deeply on its non-existence?  I want to experience this moment as it really is, free from the "me" and its distorted interpretation of this moment.

2 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Yes, this is getting at something more fundamental. 

With the question "What is the nature of this moment when I'm not interpreting it?". . . Be aware if the mind tries to create a new thought story about the nature of this moment without thought stories. . . 

It seems like in that brief moment, a direct experience arose. A form of nonverbal connection/resonance. 

You say "I experienced a sense of peace" - then try to explain it as "the peace that passes understanding" - followed by "I can't be sure".

What are you unsure about? Are you unsure of the sense of peace? Or are you unsure how to make sense of and explain that sense of peace?

You may resonate with Leo's recent video on implicit and explicit understanding. 

The question "What is the nature of this moment when I'm not interpreting it?" was like a Zen koan that temporarily stopped my mind in its tracks, hence the peace that followed.  I am unsure if the peace that was experienced was the real deal.  It was so brief. 

Reminds me of my "psychosis" (which may or may not have been an actual psychosis, I don't know) from a few years ago.  In the midst of mental anguish came uncontrollable shaking of my body, followed by crying, followed by uncontrollable laughter, and finally an experience of deep peace and a feeling of "all is well".  These would appear to be the symptoms of an awakening experience and yet, one might dismiss them as being part of the "psychosis". 

But even if these glimpses were legit, they are in the past. All that matters is, am I at peace NOW?

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13 minutes ago, Beginner Mind said:

This "me" somehow continually recreates itself from moment to moment.  Perhaps I need to reflect a little more deeply on its non-existence?  I want to experience this moment as it really is, free from the "me" and its distorted interpretation of this moment.

How will the contemplation of the "non-existence of me" allow space for experiencing this moment free of "me". The contemplation of the "non-existence of me" just keeps "me" in the game. . . . "Hmmm, this stuff about me not existing sounds pretty serious. I better spend some time contemplating and figuring out the non-existence of me"  <= That is self keeping itself in the game. Let all of it go. All of it. Including thought stories about the nonexistence of me. If thoughts arise, let them go. Don't have tea with them. If they stick around, just let them be background noise - like backrgound traffic noise. 

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8 hours ago, Beginner Mind said:

I think I've really underestimated how much time I spend thinking and how much I believe thoughts. 

It's a common affliction, don't feel bad. 


“You don’t have problems; you are the problem.”

– Swami Chinmayananda

Namaste ? ?

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You are not your body

You are not your thoughts

What is it that is left?

Consciousness. There is no difference between a human body and a lamp. There are just perceptions within consciousness, and they are also consciousness itself. Everything is consciousness, everything is you. But, do not attach yourself to these perceptions, in the end they are just that. Perceptions. Different manifestations of consciousness.

You do not have consciousness, consciousness has YOU.

It's fine to have thoughts, just be aware that you are creating them and projecting them onto reality when you do it.


You are what you currently desire. ❤️

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On 2/7/2020 at 6:28 PM, Beginner Mind said:

I'd love to experiment with psychedelics but unfortunately I don't have access to them.

Ok then, I’m callin bs on this belief. ?

Not suggesting you should do them. But man, let beliefs that don’t serve you go.  Change that vibration.

 

“This place is a dream. Only a sleeper considers it real. Then death comes like dawn, and you wake up laughing at what you thought was your grief.”

~ Rumi

(It’s not “poetic”, it’s literal)


MEDITATIONS TOOLS  ActualityOfBeing.com  GUIDANCE SESSIONS

NONDUALITY LOA  My Youtube Channel  THE TRUE NATURE

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@Nahm Well, I suppose I could ask random people on the street if they have any connections, if I really wanted to.  But I'm not that desperate for psychedelics.

Beautiful Rumi quote by the way.

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