Dreaming as a spiritual practice? ?

[DefinitelyNotARobot]

I have a few questions about dreaming as a spiritual practice. This includes normal dreaming, lucid dreaming and hypnagogia if you are familiar with that!

 

1. What is the true power of our dreams?
2. Can you dream with intention?
3. Are there any practices regarding dreams? 
4. Can you intentionally gain insights from dreaming?
5. Can you work on yourself within your dreams (Like within lucid dreams)?
6. Can you use your dreams to communicate with your higher self?
7. How can we make the most out of our dreams?
8. Are there any oneironauts here, that can give me a few tips on how to get into dream traveling?

 

I love dreaming, but I never thought about using my dreams in a more practical way.

We spend a lot of time dreaming. Imagine what you could do if you'd use that time!

I believe that dreams are an underrated superpower! And I would like to take this superpower more seriously!

I'd like to learn a little bit about how dreams can be used!

I also often experience hypnagogia if you are familiar with that term. Does anybody have any experience with this?

It seems like a powerful state of consciousness and I would like to see if it can be used in any way.

I really want to get into the whole oneironautic stuff. I am not sure if there are any "spiritual" ways of dreaming, but I'd like to find out!

[herghly]

@DefinitelyNotARobot

Yes for all of those questions.

Watch this - 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2020 by herghly

[luckieluuke]

I´ve been into lucid dreaming but that was a long time ago. I think they can be used!
Becoming lucid in a dream was a lifechanging experience for me. And it does sound similar to enlightenment in many way. You are a character that you dream up and believe in and then suddenly in a moment you realize that you are the entire dream and not the character within the dream. It ca be powerful pointer for aligning your spiritual waking path.
Also experiencing limitlessness and exploring that is fun and conducive to spiritual journey. I´ve done some weird stuff, one example I realized I cannot die and it was a dream so I took a chainsaw and and saw of my limbs. Don´t do this IRL kids haha.
But what is most interesting in a lucid dream for me is to meditate, sit down and concentrate on the pure experience of being in your own dream. Cause when do start doing stuff like flying to the moon its easy to get drawn back into the dream and its more about exploring the "physical (un)reality"  of the dream. Just like waking life really. 
Dreams make us learn stuff, and whatever fears you have you can practice facing them in your dream. For example if you have a fear of speaking in public? simply conjure a huge crowd and knock yourself out. You will learn from this experience which translates to real life!
Im not sure about being in contact with your "higher self" but you can get in touch with your subconsiousness. For example if you are reading a book you can conjure the auther and ask him/her questions and you will give yourself answers you were not aware you had!

Lucid dreaming is what got me into buddhism. The best technique for me was "lucid living" where you constantly ask yourself is this reality or a dream? you get a innate ability to discern reality from dream. This is very similar to being in the moment, see the magic in all things. Ask yourself Who am I really? All this is also conducive to the spiritual path. So yea knock yourself out!!

[Petals]

there are a few books on this topic. look into e.g. Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche, Andrew Holecek, Robert Waggoner, Clare Johnson

Edited February 6, 2020 by Petals

[DefinitelyNotARobot]

@luckieluuke

Quote

Becoming lucid in a dream was a lifechanging experience for me. And it does sound similar to enlightenment in many way. You are a character that you dream up and believe in and then suddenly in a moment you realize that you are the entire dream and not the character within the dream.

I never thought about it that way! Most of the time when I become lucid I get distracted by doing fun stuff. Interesting perspective!

Quote

what is most interesting in a lucid dream for me is to meditate

I tried meditating in my dreams 3 times now. It went like this:

I start to meditate. I suddenly start floating. I forget that I'm in a dream. I'm confused about how I'm floating. I spend the rest of the dream floating around.

I can't seem to stay aware of the fact that I'm dreaming when trying to meditate. Do I just have to practice being aware of my dreams?

Quote

The best technique for me was "lucid living" where you constantly ask yourself is this reality or a dream? you get a innate ability to discern reality from dream. This is very similar to being in the moment, see the magic in all things. Ask yourself Who am I really? All this is also conducive to the spiritual path. So yea knock yourself out!! 

Sound very interesting! I'll check that technique out!

 

@Petals @herghly Thanks for the suggestions!

[Forestluv]

@DefinitelyNotARobot One can go deep into lucid dreaming - yet how deep one goes depends on several factors including natural abilities and effort. I would consider myself as "average" in this area and I got a few deep glimpses. Yet for me, I would likely need to put a lot in a lot of effort and practice to develop lucid dreaming into deeper levels. As well, the practices can be disruptive to sleep-wake cycles.

Last summer, I spent about three months trying to develop lucid dreaming. I did reality checks throughout the day. I went through a process of dream meditation and intention each night. I wrote out every dream in a dream journal (this involved getting up 1-3 times throughout the night for about 10 minutes to write out dreams. Then trying to fall back asleep - this can be disruptive. As well, three days per week I would go out in nature and try to enter lucid states by laying beside a lake or under a tree for 3-4hrs straight). 

This is a fairly large investment of work. Here are my results: I became able to recall 1-3 dreams every night. However, most of the dreams seemed to be random storylines related to my life - there were some interesting insights and common threads - yet not the deep stuff into my subconscious and other realms I was hoping for. ,. . I only had one lucid dream in which a reality check worked and I became consciously aware that I was dreaming. This was an amazing experience - yet I only had one during months of practice. I also had one clairvoyant dream (a dream event that re-occurs in real life). When the dream event appeared in real life, I was awestruck. I stood there speechless. For about 15 seconds, there was no difference between dream and non-dream. I wasn't actually thinking "is this a dream or real?". There was actually no difference. This profoundly changed my "reality checks". Prior to this event, my reality checks were at a surface level of pretending. I would ask "Am I awake or is this a dream" and do the R.C. Yet, of course I knew I was awake and just pretending. After the clairvoyant dream, there was a new level of of "not knowing" if this was a dream or not when I did the R.C.s. . . During waking life, I spent about 10hrs a week laying in nature, letting go and trying to enter lucid states. Over the three months, I'd say I about five times I entered lucid states beyond dream or non-dream. To me, this were bona-fide "altered" states of consciousness on the same level as a moderate dose of psychedelic (yet a very different energy). I encountered energies of past people in my life that have died, I entered different realms, dream and "real" memories mixed together. I would exit this state and wouldn't know what was real or imagined. For example, memories would float by and I honestly didn't know if it actually happened in real life or was a dream. This also shed alot of light into mindspace and mind structure. . . Overall, I would say the biggest awakening through lucid dreaming was the breakdown of what is "real" and what is "imagined". Through lucid dreaming, I explored many states that were mixtures of real and imagined. And states in which there was no difference. . . I see a lot of actualizers intellectually struggling within a dualistic construct of real vs imagined. I would say lucid dreaming gave me the biggest breaktrhoughs in this area - psychedelics helped as well, yet lucid dreaming was very powerful in this area - the direct experience, integration and embodiment.

So overall, I would say I got some deep realizations - yet it also took a lot of time and work. And it disrupted my sleep schedule for a while. I didn't sleep through the night once during those three months. 

I would also say I have average lucid dreaming abilities. I know people that worked harder than I did and got much less back. And I know people that worked less and got a lot more - due to natural resonance. . . There are some talented lucid dreamers that can enter lucid dream states almost nightly and have created sophisticated dream worlds - and they are able to consciously communicate with their subconscious during lucid dreams. 

The only way for someone to find out their potential is to start the work. Start dream intentions, reality checks and dream journaling. Start working toward improving dream recall. 

[DefinitelyNotARobot]

@Serotoninluv Thank you for sharing your story!

I assume that I am above average when it comes to dreaming? I'm not sure actually. I had lucid dreams since I was 4. I know of people who didn't have them until they were in their 20's, so I guess I can work with that!

Quote

Overall, I would say the biggest awakening through lucid dreaming was the breakdown of what is "real" and what is "imagined".

I know that feeling! Here is a few experiences I had:

I always had sleep paralysis. But the nature and frequency of these experience changed when I started meditating! I often wake up seeing weird stuff. Entities running around in my room (some of them are very scary), my ceiling being made out of water, etc.

On one occasion, where I was pretty tired and high, I actually managed to fall asleep with my eyes wide open. I was looking at my hand and my hand merged with my imagination. My fingers suddenly had smiley faces and little hats. They also had instruments and where playing a jazz song like a little jazz band! It was pretty funny. I then snapped out of it being really confused.

Sometimes I can't even differentiate between a "real" memory and a dream memory. Sometimes when I remember something, I am not sure whether it had really happened. Sometimes I remember something, that happened in a dream, as having REALLY happened. Sometimes it's the opposite.

Sometimes my dreams get so real that I am genuinely shocked when I wake up, realizing that I had just been dreaming!

Sometimes the "real" world influences my dreams. For example: I once dreamed that I had a pineapple farm. My alarm went off, but I didn't wake up. Instead I thought that the alarm came from inside the dream, indicating that the pineapples were ready... for harvest. So I spend my morning harvesting pineapples instead of going to school... 

These are just a few weird examples. But I think I can probably do it if I just take it seriously! As you said; It's large investment of work. But I am willing to put in the work!

Quote

I also had one clairvoyant dream (a dream event that re-occurs in real life).

I am not sure, but I think I had one of those once! Kind of. It was about 10 - 12 years ago. I dreamed that I was sitting in a train. Suddenly, the rails broke and the train ended up derailing, causing a lot of people to die. I woke up not thinking anything about it. I turned on the TV and what I saw shocked me! A train had derailed costing a lot of people to loose their lives! IT WAS EVEN THE SAME TRAIN! I was so shocked! But I had a theory. I noticed that I could hear the neighbors TV through the walls. I also could also hear, that they were watching the same channel. My theory is that I could hear the news of the train derailing within my dream (similar to the pineapple story) and that it had influenced my dream. But I am not sure... To this date...

Anyways, I'd like to ask you if you saw any changes within your waking life? Did you perceive reality differently? Did you gain some insights from the experience that helped you in your life? Would you say that it was worth it, all in all?

Again, thanks for sharing your story! I gained a few good insights from it! I'm even more determined to take lucid dreaming more seriously!

[Forestluv]

5 hours ago, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

Anyways, I'd like to ask you if you saw any changes within your waking life? Did you perceive reality differently? Did you gain some insights from the experience that helped you in your life? Would you say that it was worth it, all in all?

I would say that it expanded my mind and perception of reality. I have much wider range now. I'm not as attached to getting grounded in what is "real" and I can connect with a much wider set of people. Yet at times, it's harder to communicate with "normies". 

[luckieluuke]

@DefinitelyNotARobot I was not meditating in like in real life. Instead I was mediteting on the realization/feeling that this is just a dream. Could be looking at my hands and see how real/unreal they are.

@Serotoninluv Thanks for sharing! I think my return of invested time practicing is similar to yours, which is why I kindof stopped it since it took to much time/energy. But I found that the return (lucid experiences) came after my efforts. I´ts like that with meditation as well I think, I rarely have direct response to my effort.

[fridjonk]

@Serotoninluv What method is your favorite ? Do you use the WILD method or have you mastered the DILD or something else. 

Edited February 7, 2020 by fridjonk

[DefinitelyNotARobot]

4 hours ago, luckieluuke said:

Instead I was mediteting on the realization/feeling that this is just a dream. Could be looking at my hands and see how real/unreal they are.

Ah yes, that might explain why I stopped being lucid. I tried doing regular meditation. Thanks for the tip!

16 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

I would say that it expanded my mind and perception of reality. I have much wider range now. I'm not as attached to getting grounded in what is "real" and I can connect with a much wider set of people.

Sounds like an interesting change of perspective! I guess I still have quiet some work to do, until I see any results.

4 hours ago, fridjonk said:

@Serotoninluv What method is your favorite ? Do you use the WILD method or have you mastered the DILD or something else. 

For me personally DILD is easier to pull off, but WILD is more powerful. You probably already know these things, but let me elaborate in case somebody is interested:

Little side note: Meditation is an important tool for lucid dreaming! It will make lucid dreaming easier and you'll remember more dreams. You will still have to do other things like contemplating dreams, having a journal, etc.

DILD:

As I said, it is easier to achieve. All you need is a general awareness of your dreams. You can use a dream journal, it helps a lot!. But it take up a lot of time! 

What I also like to do is just think about the dreams I can remember. I like to make up a little story for them and connect different dreams with each other! The more you think about your dreams, the more aware you become.

Reality checks are also pretty important! My favorite reality check is counting fingers! It works pretty well. Count them once, look away/close your eyes, look again and count them once more. Most of the time when you are dreaming, you will see the right amount of fingers the first time you count them, but the second time you count them you will have more/less fingers!

A little anxiety can help too! You are less likely to check, if you are in a dream, if you are having a great time.

WILD:

Again, very powerful, but harder to pull off! The reason it's more powerful is because you have a higher awareness while in this state. But it also takes longer to fall asleep that way.

I try to meditate 10 for minutes before going to sleep. I then try to stay in this meditative state while laying in bed. The hard part is staying aware!

I do that by...

a) ... concentrating on all the sensations in my body. I just try to be aware of the body. BUT you need to really focus! If you loose your focus just once, you can fall asleep!

b) ... visualizing my body laying in bed! I like to visualize myself floating outside of my body, looking down on it, like I am in a out of body experience.

Do both of these things at the same time!

There are a few more hurdles that come your way though.

 

Hallucinations: 

One problem is hypnagogia while being in sleep-paralysis. Basically the different parts of your brain fall asleep at different paces. Only a few people experience this while being awake (Including me which makes mediating when being tired really difficult), but a lot of people (about 1/5-1/3 of all people) experience this while falling asleep! 

 - "Sleep paralysis may include hypnagogic hallucinations, such as a supernatural creature suffocating or terrifying the individual, accompanied by a feeling of pressure on one's chest and difficulty breathing. Another example of a hallucination involves a menacing shadowy figure entering one's room or lurking outside one's window, while the subject is paralyzed."

And that is the problem! You can start hearing sounds, or seeing images WHILE your mind falls asleep! They might be pretty harmless: Hearing somebody say your name, hearing somebody yell a random word ("CHEESE!"), seeing a random image of a house, etc.  But they might get a little intense too!

I once had a shadow figure stand over my bed, grinning at me with it's sharp teeth. Kinda looked like this one. It then started screaming at me a few times.

Yesterday, when I tried to enter a dream, a little man came through my door. He kept running around in my room. He stopped and just stood there, looking at me. He then ran towards me and just said "BOO!", waking me out of my sleep-paralysis.

These things easily distract/confuse you!

Explosive Head Syndrome:

Another irritating problem is EHS. This is pretty rare and it isn't something that everybody experiences, but it can happen! Especially when trying to enter a waking dream.

Imagine laying in bed. Suddenly a small light appears. This light gets brighter and brighter until it literally blinds you! Suddenly your entire body starts shaking violently, almost like a seizure! (This "phenomena" is related to epilepsy, but it's not dangerous, it also has nothing to do with chronic epilepsy, so don't worry). Your heart starts beating real fast, and the bright light, which for me tends to be a turquoise-ish, golden light, is flowing through every fiber of your body! Adrenaline will start pumping through your veins and all of the air in your lungs will get "pushed" out. It's called "explosive head syndrome" because it's usually accompanied by a loud sound, but I personally never get that. It's different for everybody.

The problem with this is that it's incredibly overwhelming! Staying focused while this is happening is incredibly difficult! It won't happen to everybody, but if it happens try not to get distracted by the experience. I personally call it the "light-tunnel" because it feels like being shot through a tunnel of pure, bright light at a really high speed! You can guess that's it's pretty hard to navigate!

--

You might also get lucky and have non of these.

When the dream approaches I'll usually start seeing a vague image. I will try to stay aware of that image, without concentrating too much. The image will get bigger and bigger, while also becoming more vivid. I will eventually "enter" the image and the image will turn into a dream!

Again it takes a lot of mindfulness and a lot of concentration. On top of that falling asleep while concentrating on something can take quiet a while! Do this only when you have some time to spare!

If you manage to do it brace yourself for a weird experience! You will STILL be aware of your body! You will be aware of all the sensations from the outside. It will feel like being awake. Only difference being that you are ALSO aware of the dream! Pretty weird. It feels like tripping! The good thing is that you will be VERY aware of your dream! You will recall most of the things you do! But set an intention! If you go in without an intention, you'll drift into a normal dream very easily.

 

I hope this was helpful for anybody reading this! Keep in mind that it works differently for everybody! You'll have to find your own way.

Edited February 7, 2020 by DefinitelyNotARobot

[Forestluv]

4 hours ago, fridjonk said:

@Serotoninluv What method is your favorite ? Do you use the WILD method or have you mastered the DILD or something else. 

I never got into reading about and trying different techniques. I read just a little bit about lucid dreaming and how a dream notebook, dream affirmations and reality checks are helpful. That was it. I started affirming dream intentions and mindset as I fell asleep. I journaled every dream and did RCs everyday. When I was recalling multiple dreams every night, there would be these weird "pseudo-dream" spaces in which I didn't know if it was a dream or if I was just thinking. I think this opened the door to what people call WILD. . . While awake, I couldn't WILD while laying in bed prior to sleeping. It happened while laying out in nature. For me, I think a key was to let go and relax to very deep levels. Thoughts like "whoa, did I just imagine that or is it real?" would pull me away. To enter WILD, it wasn't so much stopping thoughts as letting go of the attachment/identification to thoughts. Thoughts became part of WILD, yet they weren't really "thoughts" anymore. One thing that helped was that I had two months off from work, I wasn't in a relationship and I was alone all day - at home or in nature. This greatly reduced engagement with outside distractions. . . . In terms of DILD, I'm guessing that RCs and dream affirmations while falling sleep qualify as DILD. Yet I never got into the details of techniques - I don't know if I could have reached deeper levels if I got more specific with methods. . . Unfortuanately, my dream recall shut down as soon as I went back to work. Last summer, I was recalling 1-3 dreams every night. Most of them in detail. Yet since I returned to work last August, I have only recalled one tiny dream fragment. 

[fridjonk]

@DefinitelyNotARobot Thanks man ! I've been blessed with some great dream recall; ever since i was little I've almost always remembered most of my dreams. But never gotten too a lucid level just naturally, always had to try and induce it. 

@Serotoninluv I've had similar experiences. I had my most success when I just really focus on wanting to lucid dream, and not too much on some techniques. Also when i think about it a lot, talk about it a lot, watch videos on it, it seems to happen more often.