Leo Gura PUA

[Ananta]

9 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

has a lay count of 100 women

Years ago, I ran into a guy I dated for 2 1/2 yrs in high school (I was his first). Anyways, I saw him 7 yrs later and he told me (for some ungodly reason) that while he was in college he had sex with 43 girls. I couldn't be more disgusted ? and couldn't get the cringing look off my face. I even said, "oh, so you're are a walking STD now". Yuck. ?

[Farnaby]

2 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

Would you say that their own natural essence is what attracts a compatible woman, when it's actualized by shedding layers of conditioning preventing him to shine?

If you take as a principle that the Self is naturally complete, isn't it going to be the best incarnation of all the principles of attraction on an energetic level?

Instead of trying to add something, I find it easier to dig into what's already there and take the path of removing insecurities, in opposition to chasing virtues and qualities because you believe that you need them to be attractive. You only need to add something to yourself if by definition, you believe that you lack something. It's exactly the same trick as in the spiritual path.

Our ability to be attractive, relate to other humans, and love, is already naturally there within us. Just under mountains of fake believes, emotions and thoughts.

Also, it's important to add that everything that isn't your real, essential self, one day will crumble. All illusions are untenable. So your ego will constantly try to hide from her your authentic self. So, there is no real intimacy possible in this place. It's a lonely.

 

I like and agree with your perspective. 

@Serotoninluv That's how I see it too. Not that one (relationship with deep connection and work through struggles and growth together) is better than the other (having many sexual encounters). Since I've been more inclined to have long term relationships, I probably am more inexperienced in the other way of relating to women. 

I just personally feel more fulfilled when I can have a deep connection instead of just having sexual pleasure. As @Emerald said, we can have fun without the other person being fulfilled by the experience, but nothing compares to a deep intimate connection where it's a shared ecstatic experience. 

 

[Galyna]

45 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

Your first reply to me was to inform me that I should stop conversing with someone who was arrogantly testing my boundaries

I am sorry, I did not mean to micromanage, I wanted to help, honestly. But I agree with you, maybe I should work on this. Again my apologies. 

45 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

I also don't appreciate the rudeness against American women - many of us are quite deep

I think people on this forum are very deep, including you. This forum is the only place I can learn and mingle with smart people. I can not express my gratitude enough to Leo for allow this communication to happen. 

However, and please forgive me for being so rude and so straight, every person I meet in real life does not seem deep at all. Conversations with ladies from here follow certain script: compliment phase, weather, men are ass wholes, closing phase and a good bye talk. I know in advance what I will be talking about with my colleagues. I am sorry but people here is quite shallow. Please forgive me again. I know what I am saying because I can compare: mom lives in Vienna, dad is in Moscow, grandparents are in Ukraine ( three different cultures). I traveled to Europe three times last year to see all of them, spent about eight weeks outside the US. I love Americans for their friendliness and customer service. But to find a person like people here on this forum is almost impossible. I know I sound arrogant. Also, you guys, have no interest to develop long-term friendships. Friendships here start and end at the dinner/bar talks. This is not my opinion. It is opinion of my immigrants friends who came here and trying to settle. Think about it. Of course it seems offensive to you. I am not mad when people say that Ukrainian ladies are after money and rich men and use their beauty to sell themselves. It is very true. I can handle the truth. 

 

Edited February 1, 2020 by Galyna

[Forestluv]

27 minutes ago, Farnaby said:

 

@Serotoninluv That's how I see it too. Not that one (relationship with deep connection and work through struggles and growth together) is better than the other (having many sexual encounters). 

I agree. I wouldn’t say speaking three languages fluently is inherently better than speaking 20 languages at a surface level. Which is better depends on context. 

I’m seeing a lot of men in this thread and subforum with surface level volume experience. That is fine in the context of having sex at a surface level of engagement. Yet that surface level experience does not translate to depth of experience. In this context, someone who has approached 1000d of women with a lay count of 100+ is a newbie. There will be aspects of attraction and connection he is blind to due to lacking a form of direct experience - yet he would likely deny this (as seen by the men on the forum denying this).

Similarly, a man with five deep relationships lasting six years each has deeper experience and understanding within a relationship. This will shape his perspective of how to connect with women. If the goal became increasing volume and his lay count, this person would be a newbie. 

[Galyna]

@Keyhole super nice response, I will reply later, ? hugs.

[tsuki]

What I find the most disturbing about PUA is my own reaction to it, the fact that I think that I would absolutely love to fuck hundreds of women.
This belief is common to most men and I think that the bottom of this issue is excessive systemizing on their part, at the expense of empathy and self-knowledge. I believe that possible causes such as prevalence of porn, commodification of sex and objectification of women are just symptoms of this problem.

I grew up in an environment with little to no emotional support, used by my parents to satisfy their emotional needs. I believe that this is how most men are raised nowadays and it results in lack of emotional maturity, lack of self-knowledge. With overblown systemizing skills, they create juvenile goals to satisfy their mutilated identity, such as lay-counts and such. Moreover, the chemical cocktail released during sex or masturbation is oftentimes used as a way to drown the "feeling of emptiness" which is nothing else than years of emotional self-neglect.

So, boys venture out to make something of themselves, a man, by having sex with random strangers, having fun? No, they are not even having fun! They treat it as a bootcamp, a way to convince themselves that the world is a harsh place, that they are "putting the hard work in" to do what, exactly? To have the sex equivalent of a fastfood hamburger. What is the effect? Some get good ordering them... and some don't. The ones that do get good, prey on emotionally damaged women, looking for 'compliance', and other calculated metrics that tell you that you are going to get laid with higher probability.

It gets even worse - what happens with emotionally damaged men that get through this sex meat grinder with some semblance of success? Do they actually feel better? Do they get healthier? Do they really get to know women? What about women that are being used, do they get encouraged to explore their sexuality and get to know men better? Or do they get the reinforcement that men are creatures from another planet?

Obviously, I have a negative opinion on PUA because I haven't explored it and I do recognize that I envy the successful fuckers. But I also recognize that there is no way in the world that get to explore intimacy, having been through such volume of pussy. The simple answer is: life is short and it's a trade off constrained by time. Intimacy is important and casual sex is also important, but I do believe that we're seeing the damage of excess of the latter.

And God, how do I hate the PUA jargon. It sounds like moonspeak.

[wagnereater]

PUA won't work.

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

I have been considering several angles to reply to your post, but in the end, all that needs to be said has been said. I've validated each of your points within my experience, so I know that this is correct.

I wish that this type of relationships would become the reference point, on this forum. I'm under the impression that actualized.org flies rather high in perspective usually, but that this sub-section is seriously lagging behind. Perhaps, it's because of the fact that the Divine Feminine is even more required in this topic, that anywhere else. I'm not sure.

That tends to be why I choose to hang out in this section disproportionately. Lots of people struggling unnecessarily and getting mired down in darkness... making sex and love something of suffering and scarcity, instead of truly fulfilling.

The problem is that most men here (and in general) are unknowingly seeking connection to the feminine (or Anima to speak more psychologically). But because they don't know this, they play out the struggles with their Anima onto women. They worship it and they hate that they worship it. They put it up on a pedestal and then give it their all to drag it down. They perceive the feminine as too powerful and feels powerless in the face of it, so they seek to take it down a peg and puff themselves up.

And of course, we women-people have nothing to do with the woman inside of his own psyche who he has rejected and thus spites him with so many blows to his self-esteem. But we become the projection screen for his internal antagonist. And it gets damn tiring to be minding your own business and having all this misrepresentation, demonization, dehumanization, and disempowering sentiments flung at you from all directions from a large populace of men that society has failed by teaching them only to honor the masculine side of themselves... leaving them there to struggle there in the psycho-sexual realm with feelings of deep pain and inadequacy.

But what they really want deep down is to accept their feminine side, which takes a lot of foresight and bravery to see the value in given the hyper-masculine social indoctrination we all experience.

And all those issues play out on the sexual stage... as most internal turmoil eventually does.

 

 

[Farnaby]

8 minutes ago, Emerald said:

That tends to be why I choose to hang out in this section disproportionately. Lots of people struggling unnecessarily and getting mired down in darkness... making sex and love something of suffering and scarcity, instead of truly fulfilling.

The problem is that most men here (and in general) are unknowingly seeking connection to the feminine (or Anima to speak more psychologically). But because they don't know this, they play out the struggles with their Anima onto women. They worship it and they hate that they worship it. They put it up on a pedestal and then give it their all to drag it down. They perceive the feminine as too powerful and feels powerless in the face of it, so they seek to take it down a peg and puff themselves up.

And of course, we women-people have nothing to do with the woman inside of his own psyche who he has rejected and thus spites him with so many blows to his self-esteem. But we become the projection screen for his internal antagonist. And it gets damn tiring to be minding your own business and having all this misrepresentation, demonization, dehumanization, and disempowering sentiments flung at you from all directions from a large populace of men that society has failed by teaching them only to honor the masculine side of themselves... leaving them there to struggle there in the psycho-sexual realm with feelings of deep pain and inadequacy.

But what they really want deep down is to accept their feminine side, which takes a lot of foresight and bravery to see the value in given the hyper-masculine social indoctrination we all experience.

And all those issues play out on the sexual stage... as most internal turmoil eventually does.

 

 

Gotta agree  The only part I would like to understand a little better is about the divine feminine. I think you're right that we're seeking a deep connection and when we find it we often get scared because it's more chaotic and difficult to understand. 

What I didn't understand is if you're saying that we're idealizing that divine feminine or if it really exists on an energetic level. 

Speaking for myself, I can only agree with the part about wanting to accept our feminine side. I would say we want to integrate both, the masculine and the feminine polarity, so we can act spontaneously without always thinking how other people will judge us. I guess it's the same for women. If, for instance, a man likes to dance or sing, probably society has judged him for that, so he may have repressed that part which we could call more feminine. What I've found is that, paradoxically, when you stop repressing that feminine polarity, it can actually manifest in a quite confident, masculine way, idk if you know what I mean. Maybe the mistake is that feminine/masculine are categories that are too rigid. 

[Emerald]

14 minutes ago, Farnaby said:

Gotta agree  The only part I would like to understand a little better is about the divine feminine. I think you're right that we're seeking a deep connection and when we find it we often get scared because it's more chaotic and difficult to understand. 

What I didn't understand is if you're saying that we're idealizing that divine feminine or if it really exists on an energetic level. 

Speaking for myself, I can only agree with the part about wanting to accept our feminine side. I would say we want to integrate both, the masculine and the feminine polarity, so we can act spontaneously without always thinking how other people will judge us. I guess it's the same for women. If, for instance, a man likes to dance or sing, probably society has judged him for that, so he may have repressed that part which we could call more feminine. What I've found is that, paradoxically, when you stop repressing that feminine polarity, it can actually manifest in a quite confident, masculine way, idk if you know what I mean. Maybe the mistake is that feminine/masculine are categories that are too rigid. 

I actually just wrote a big long list of Yin qualities with their Yang counterparts yesterday. It will help you get the gist of what is being resisted against...

• Darkness (as opposed to light)
• Being (as opposed to doing)
• Intuition (as opposed to logic)
• Emotions (as opposed to thought)
• Sensitivity (as opposed to impenetrability)
• Receptivity (as opposed to communication)
• Earthliness (as opposed to idealism)
• Grounding and stability (as opposed to flight)
• Instincts (as opposed to civilized behaviors)
• Sensuality (as opposed to pensiveness)
• Birth and Death (as opposed to eternal life)
• The moon (as opposed to the sun)
• The present moment (as opposed to past and future)
• The arational (as opposed to the rational)
• The body (as opposed to the mind)
• Attunement to natural cycles (as opposed to controlling nature)
• Compassion (as opposed to respect)
• Wisdom (as opposed to knowledge)
• Nature (as opposed to society)
• Laterality (as opposed to hierarchy)
• Cooperation (as opposed to competition)
• Interdependence (as opposed to independence)
• Care for the Earth and all the creatures that crawl upon it (as opposed to prioritizing human survival above all)
• The ability to feel energy in people and plants as a means of path-finding (as opposed to being guided by set principles)
• Nurturing (as opposed to protecting)
• Mystery (as opposed to clarity)
• Eroticism - aka life-giving (as opposed to catalyzing life)
• Holistic thinking (as opposed to linear thinking)
• The ability to hold space for opposites (as opposed to choosing one side)
• Yes and (as opposed to either or)
• Non-resistance (as opposed to resistance)
• Softness (as opposed to hardness)
• Beauty (as opposed to utility)
• Our animal nature (as opposed to our God-nature)
• Creativity (as opposed to productivity)
• Regenerative chaos and destruction (as opposed to order)
• Honor for the material and physical world (as opposed to mind over matter)
• Intimacy (as opposed to detachment)

Go through the list and see what triggers you or makes you feel an ego boost. Even though these qualities are not meant to be attached to human gender directly, we often do even if we try not to. 

So, if we find ourselves in attachment mode or resistance mode with any of these qualities, it's a good place to dig and explore for barriers to integration.

 

 

[Ananta]

4 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

I'm under the impression that actualized.org flies rather high in perspective usually, but that this sub-section is seriously lagging behind. 

Which is why, imo, this sub-section should be closed! I think it's the hardest sub-section to moderate as well.

[Ananta]

1 hour ago, Etherial Cat said:

It would be a surface level solution in my opinion.

But Leo has a lot of influence and if he'd promote actively the relationship model mentioned above by Emerald, where communication and respect is paramount to build intimacy and grow together, things could slowly evolve . 

Well, until such changes were to take place, I think this sub-section should be closed down, that would be my vote. Another moderator told me he thought it should be closed too and I didn't ask the others. Obviously, it's Leo's call though.

[Moreira]

On 28/1/2020 at 7:52 AM, Leo Gura said:

RSD was one of the best back in the 2012ish era when I was big into it. Not sure about what they teach today since I haven't watched in a long while.

Was it highly conscious? No. But it worked for getting good with the ladies.

But there are many, many dating and attraction courses and teachers out there. I've studied dozens of different ones. Hard to remember them all. David DeAneglo is a classic. I studied Adam Lyons, David Wygant, Mystery Method (although it's super outdated), and a bunch more that I can't recall now.

The basic theory is very simple: you go to a crowded place where there are many hot women, you see one, you muster the courage to approach her, and you start talking your mouth off. Smile, be playful, strong eye contact, have sexual intent, get good a touching her early without being creepy. Repeat 10,000 times. The rest is fine details. Roll with experienced wingmen who can show you the ropes in-person.

Dating or having long term relations is a distraction to spiritual path and life purpose, but I still feel I'm missing something when Im still young and my sorroundings are getting married, having kids.

How are you sure you wont regret "ignoring the experience of building a family" in your deathbed?

[Emerald]

5 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

Hence the need for them to put femininity in a box.

The box is what gives them a sensation of control. "Game" as well, to some extend, since they perceive themself in this dynamics as mastermind, leveraging masculine tools (Logic, rationality, science) in order to make the feminine bend and obey and satisfy their needs in a non-threatening way. Like that, they take what they want and try to leave the rest.

It also to explains their animosity each time that they see a woman escape their safe pattern and feel the need to put her back where they think we belong. (In the kitchen of their mind ).

And it's not exactly like minding our own business wasn't complicated enough- since we're made primarily of that collectively repressed energy...

Dealing on top with that collective misrepresentation, demonization, dehumanization, and disempowering sentiments flung at us from all directions as you say so well, and manage its effect on us as individual female and as a collective, and manage to still love them regardless is frankly heroic. 

Haha! The kitchen of the mind is a great metaphor for where they try to keep the Anima.  Making mind samiches!

All very well said. Especially the last part. It's like going to war sometimes trying to get through all the layers of pain and conditioning. 

 

[Emerald]

5 hours ago, Anna1 said:

Which is why, imo, this sub-section should be closed! I think it's the hardest sub-section to moderate as well.

I very much disagree. The only way out is through. 

This is the place where all the Shadows are.

 

[Ananta]

33 minutes ago, Emerald said:

I very much disagree. The only way out is through. 

This is the place where all the Shadows are.

 

It's mostly a toxic mess and most of the mods don't even come here at all anymore.

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, Anna1 said:

It's mostly a toxic mess and most of the mods don't even come here at all. 

I do agree with that as well. It's very uncomfortable to be in this section.

But it's important to look squarely at it. The internet gives us a direct look into collective consciousness and the collective Shadow.

So, to avoid going to the sexuality section, is to avoid something that everyone is affected by at a very deep level. And no growth comes from avoidance.

It's best to turn over the rotting logs and see yourself in the rot. 

The only way to transcend the discomfort is to dive directly into the rot and understand it deeply. It's hard though and uncomfortable.

 

[Farnaby]

@Emerald thanks for that list, I'll see how much my ego resists each aspect  

However, I was interested in your explanation of how men seek connection with the feminine through relationships. Do you think we are only projecting something that doesn't really exist, or is there actually something like the divine feminine and the divine masculine? 

[Ananta]

19 minutes ago, Emerald said:

I do agree with that as well. It's very uncomfortable to be in this section.

Exactly, I'm burned out and if you can burn out that means it's not healthy or high conscious.

[Emerald]

Just now, Farnaby said:

@Emerald thanks for that list, I'll see how much my ego resists each aspect  

However, I was interested in your explanation of how men seek connection with the feminine through relationships. Do you think we are only projecting something that doesn't really exist, or is there actually something like the divine feminine and the divine masculine? 

When the desire for sex becomes excessive, it is usually not because of the sex... but instead what the sex represents.

So, a man who represses his Feminine side (Anima), will project the disintegrated Anima onto women as whole group. And there will be a simultaneous hatred and resentment as well as an incredibly strong obsessional desire to connect.

A man who has an integrated Anima will have a much healthier and non-excessive sex-drive based in the desire for pleasure, procreation, and/or pair-bonding. But it won't be this sense of extreme thirsting for a dearth of the Feminine internally. And because there is no split, he will generally have neutral feelings about women... basing his feelings only on the particulars of the individual woman he interacts with. He will see women as complex individuals capable of both good and evil.

But you want to think about the Anima as literally being a split off woman personality inside of a man. Like there is a shadow aspect of him that is literally female, and has all the access to his feminine strengths and wisdom. It gives him access to the subconscious, the intuition, and his emotions.

But when this internal woman gets rejected, she behaves as any scorned woman does. She gets jealous and petty and possessive of his personality. And he starts expressing shadow feminine traits... all the while believing he's being masculine in his rejection of the feminine. 

And his Anima aspect behave with smallness, cattiness, and pettiness toward women... because the Anima is jealous of the attention he pays to them and not her. And so she sabotages his relationships. And projects her own face onto all women which is vengeful and cold because she wants him to feel the same rejection that he has dealt out to her as he pushes her out of his conscious awareness.