How To Fall Asleep Mindfully ?

[charles1]

I've been trying to stay mindful all day long ( unsuccessfully of course ) and to catch myself when I'm lost in thoughts. 

But before sleep and in my dreams ( when I recall them ), I notice that I am unable to do so whatsoever.  And I have even the impression that the monkey mind is more powerful than ever there, as if it was compensating for the increase in mindfulness throughout the day. 

 

How to fight against that ? 

Edited January 8, 2020 by charles1

[cetus]

@charles1 No need to fight it. Just observe it.

[charles1]

4 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

@charles1 No need to fight it. Just observe it.

How do you observe when you rest ? Observing requires will, and when I sleep or try to fall asleep, don't I "surrender" my will ?  Keeping observing it will keep me awake, no ? 

[cetus]

@charles1 You are that which witnesses falling asleep and dreams of waking up in the morning..

How to sleep more mindfully?  Try sleeping on the floor.

[LfcCharlie4]

Thoughts aren’t an issue, it’s the resistance to thoughts and identification with them that is. 
 

You don’t NEED thoughts to live, as natural pure awareness takes care of everything, however, thoughts can be useful in some areas of life, and it can even be fun to think sometimes, I often daydream before bed, maybe it’s preparation for dreaming at night lol, but don’t think you can never think again, that will just make you think more. 
 

What would be more useful is actually Welcoming your thoughts and treating each thought as a guest in your guest house and loving EVERY thought unconditional! investigating your thoughtS is also key, where do they come from? Where do they go? What is at the centre of them? 

[WelcometoReality]

6 hours ago, charles1 said:

How do you observe when you rest ? Observing requires will, and when I sleep or try to fall asleep, don't I "surrender" my will ?  Keeping observing it will keep me awake, no ? 

To surrender something you need to be conscious of it. This "my will" can be observed and also surrendered.

[charles1]

19 hours ago, cetus56 said:

@charles1 You are that which witnesses falling asleep and dreams of waking up in the morning..

 

No, precisely, "I" NEVER witness falling asleep.  I do realize I fell asleep when I wake up, but not before.  You need to be conscious to be a witness, but falling asleep means losing consciousness ( not Absolutely, but relative to the Ego ).  So I don't understand how I could be that which witnesses it. 

 

15 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

What would be more useful is actually Welcoming your thoughts and treating each thought as a guest in your guest house and loving EVERY thought unconditionally !

I'm not sure it's possible to do so and fall asleep. I'll try tonight for myself.

 

13 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

To surrender something you need to be conscious of it. This "my will" can be observed and also surrendered.

So observing is prior to will ?  but if you don't have the will to observe you don't observe... No ? If I surrender my will, I ( at my level of mindfulness ) will fall back in thoughts.  I know that when meditating, you should look for "being mindful" , you should rather simply "notice what's arising without any efforts" but isn't that still an instance of Will ? 

  Can you explain further on how do you observe without any willingness to observe ?  And if you continue to observe, you don't lose consciousness, so you don't sleep ... ? 

In a nutshell, I don't understand how sleep can, substantially, be compatible with mindfulness.  

[WelcometoReality]

4 hours ago, charles1 said:

No, precisely, "I" NEVER witness falling asleep.  I do realize I fell asleep when I wake up, but not before.  You need to be conscious to be a witness, but falling asleep means losing consciousness ( not Absolutely, but relative to the Ego ).  So I don't understand how I could be that which witnesses it. 

 

I'm not sure it's possible to do so and fall asleep. I'll try tonight for myself.

 

So observing is prior to will ?  but if you don't have the will to observe you don't observe... No ? If I surrender my will, I ( at my level of mindfulness ) will fall back in thoughts.  I know that when meditating, you should look for "being mindful" , you should rather simply "notice what's arising without any efforts" but isn't that still an instance of Will ? 

  Can you explain further on how do you observe without any willingness to observe ?  And if you continue to observe, you don't lose consciousness, so you don't sleep ... ? 

In a nutshell, I don't understand how sleep can, substantially, be compatible with mindfulness.  

Consciousness is prior to anything and everything arises within it. That might seem abstract but what does that point to within your own experience. It might be another avenue to explore. Observing without the willingness to observe that's nicely put.

[Shin]

On 08/01/2020 at 5:17 AM, charles1 said:

How do you observe when you rest ? Observing requires will, and when I sleep or try to fall asleep, don't I "surrender" my will ?  Keeping observing it will keep me awake, no ? 

Be very careful about that statement.

Believing it requires will, is exactly why it requires will.

PS: I'm not kidding (for once ?)

Edited January 9, 2020 by Shin

[charles1]

18 hours ago, Shin said:

Be very careful about that statement. Believing it requires will, is exactly why it requires will.

 

I'm not ideological about it. If I were sure, I wouldn't even ask.  But I simply don't have any  direct experience of how it could be otherwise.  I haven't yet discovered for myself whether or not my essence is Consciousness.  So I can only see consciousness as accessible through will. But I hope I will in the future ! 

 

I would ask, what changes suddenly when you realize Mindfulness doesn't require will ? What is happening in your brain ? Is it just a sudden realization ? And therefore, does meditating becomes entirely effortless thereafter ? 

[Shin]

Find out for yourself ?

An explanation isn't helping because it feeds you with ideas about what it is.

The point is to not have a preconceived notion, that's how you can find out ?

[SageOnTheHill]

Look into "dream yoga". It's a Tibetan practice of retaining consciousness in dream states and deep sleep. A good book on it is "Dream Yoga" by Andrew Holocek. I have tried it, but have not had much success. I think it takes nightly dedication.