Leo's Work Is Becoming Dangerous

[Bill W]

Well how about those who think Leo has a responsibility and/or is not deploying this responsibility, articulate what the responsible should look like? How should the responsibility manifest itself to the eyes or ears because we either read his content and/or watch it.

This way we could take responsibility as an abstract idea and lay down how it would present itself on the front line.

Basically what does Leo have to do for someone to think "yep, he has met his responsibility". 

Might even help Leo to see it in writing what people are thinking. 

[Space]

@Bridge to Infinity Leo says repeatedly not to believe anything he says whatsoever. Leo cannot be accountable for your friends inability to distinguish between belief and direct experience.

[Amandine]

I think Leo's said until he's blue in the face not just to limit yourself to only one source.

Not to hang onto every word from him as the Alpha and Omega.

Not to idolize him, etc.

 

The world's your oyster.

Learn from a variety of sources.

 

I personally think Leo is helping many people out there who need him very much.

 

I defy anyone to give me the name of another website as prolific with the high quality and quantity of material that is all pooled here in one place on all subjects. And the name of another spiritual guide who has given so freely and generously of his time as Leo has.

 

What sort of responsability do you want him to take?

 

Perhaps some eerie, ghoulish music playing while we log in our passwords with the message Enter at your Own Peril or something? 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by Amandine

[remember]

23 hours ago, RawJudah said:

watch Leo's recent video about the dangers of spiritual work. He clears this up there. It's basically a video that we should all watch so we can figure out if this path is for us or not...

there have been some videos that deal with confronting actualized.org forum members or video junkies with their relationship to the content and identity to gurus or group ego - like the cult psychology video. one problem of people who build a massive spiritual ego on actualized.org is that they have not gone deep enough into shadow work - this only shows where there is still work to do. the how authority works video is also really good to confront oneself with how dangerous in general the overidentification with one group or another is. independent thinking is not born overnight - i think the identification might be an important step towards that and can certainly reach dimensions which are or are almost toxic. although it mostly reveals some toxic traits of the ego and maybe is only a reaction like a backlash towards the feeling of finally finding a missing link towards what feels true. it`s not that this is a new ideology that should replace some empty spot. although of course the fascination that draws people towards actualized.org is the same as every cult deals with. collective ego. (it`s such a paradox isn`t it) the danger is not actualized.org but the cultural dynamics and programs that run people underneath. the forum is here to discuss these phenomenons openly - but what is prior to talking about it is some form of awareness.

and awareness is probably part of a better self-inquiry practice. maybe the problem is that it`s difficult to heal with the same methods the problem was created with - but as there is only one consciousness, you might spot the dilemma.

Edited January 2, 2020 by remember

[Moreira]

Crushing your ego is not dangerous.

Al least this doesnt encourage to suicide like Teal (the witch) Swan does.

[remember]

2 hours ago, Moreira said:

Crushing your ego is not dangerous.

Al least this doesnt encourage to suicide like Teal (the witch) Swan does.

is it about this? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50478821

let`s stay aware that the business with talking suicide is maybe suicidal. we can talk a lot about why people are magnets for other people - one aspect is probably the will to flee self-inquiry or some shadows of what life created as reality for oneself. spirituality as a business concept is of course a self deception, if the bubble never bursts. of course if anything is too smooth and edgeless i`d always wonder. teal swan is much too purple and that without her feet in the mud... if our head sticks too much in the clouds, how can we see where we walk - falling sometimes might seem like flying. it´s the fools card. being foolish with topics like suicide is not tarot it`s poker.

[Leo Gura]

The topics we deal with here are inherently dangerous and could not be otherwise since they involve undoing and transcending survival.

Spirituality is very dangerous to the ego-mind. These dangers are not merely perceptual, they are also "actual", in the sense of physical danger. You can't do serious spiritual work and also complain, "But this can be dangerous". Of course! If it wasn't dangerous it wouldn't be worth doing. The whole point is that its dangerous and therefore rarely done well.

This works requires enormous nuance, care, and intelligence. These are structural meta-qualities which cannot ever be codified in the form of content. Which means, no matter how many times a teacher says to be nuanced, careful, and intelligent, it will not help someone who is sloppy, careless, and ignorant. You cannot make a person intelligent by telling them to be intelligent. If things were so easy we wouldn't be here struggling with consciousness.

The danger of the work is exactly what makes it so appealing. There are stakes. Much like life. Otherwise it would just be armchair philosophy with no transformative power. Changing your life comes at a cost. You might change it for the worse.

[remember]

but it also means for people who do tight rope walks and teach that to others they would not let them dance without some kind of safety net. of course it`s still dangerous and everyone does it on own risk, although it`s kind of irresponsible to think some topics can be touched without then supplying some kind of professional support. if the community is strong and can carry that your luck but if not who will catch the child falling?

[Applegarden]

@Bridge to Infinity Thats a pretty normal reaction, starting from 0, i did have alot of weird beliefs, they clear up and constantly change.

[Nivsch]

@Leo Gura But Leo, don't you think it is too much 'masculine' kind of approach (and not balanced)?

I reffer only to the last message you wrote.

If spirituality means less safety and less stability, doesn't it contradict what we want to add to our life through it?

 

Edited January 2, 2020 by Nivsch

[fewrocker]

I agree.

 

I always watched every video and they provided me a lot of value and undestanding. But I realized I've reached a barrier. Non-actualized potential hurts a lot. Believing you have all concepts but being far from the reality you envision is a recipe for frustration. And Actualized.org does that. It has become completely addictive, and even worse, the last videos have become more and more negative. All new videos are about ranting, criticizing the "ones who can't see what I can see" and discussing subjects which might be at Leo's grasp, but 99.99% of the people here won't understand, and actually misinterpret it and believe they understood it.

 

In 2020, I decided that I won't watch any new video, unless it is about Manifestation and bringing ideas to life. I will come back when I actually accomplished things instead of believing I can accomplish them because I am God.

 

To be clear, this is not me saying that Actualized.org is not good. It is an amazing place with a lot of condensed knowlege. Leo is great at organizing thoughts and theories and delivering them in a direct way. He put the words out there, and it our responsibility to know how to use it too. I fell for the trap of spiritual ego, as most of us will. The only criticism I will place is that Actualized.org has a language which feeds spiritual ego (there are 5% of videos warning about it, and 95% of videos attacking the "unenlightened", so just out of watch-time proportion, you get more inclined to the spiritual ego side). It is our responsibility to work with it. Leo taught me a lot, and indirectly he taught me that spirituality is nothing without manifestation. Actualized.org will always be central to my Personal and Spiritual development and of course I will be back here. I just have to solve the problems I have in this moment

Edited January 2, 2020 by fewrocker

[Danioover9000]

3 minutes ago, fewrocker said:

I agree.

 

I always watched every video and they provided me a lot of value and undestanding. But I realized I've reached a barrier. Non-actualized potential hurts a lot. Believing you have all concepts but being far from the reality you envision is a recipe for frustration. And Actualized.org does that. It has become completely addictive, and even worse, the last videos have become more and more negative. All new videos are about ranting, criticizing the "ones who can't see what I can see" and discussing subjects which might be at Leo's grasp, but 99.99% of the people here won't understand, and actually misinterpret it and believe they understood it.

 

In 2020, I decided that I won't watch any new video, unless it is about Manifestation and bringing ideas to life. I will come back when I actually accomplished things instead of believing I can accomplish them because I am God.

   I think the main problem is that most people A. still are struggling to fulfill their basic needs, B. have little innate/developed intuition, C. Have little innate/developed philosophical skills and the real kicker, D. don't have access to psychedelics and fear psychedelics. Any chance of immense growth is thrown out the window if you're struggling with all the above, or lack some of them.

   I'm re-focusing on the more basic videos, as they're starting to be more profound in contrast to his latest videos and I'm getting more value from them. I wish you good luck with your 2020 journey!

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

@Leo Gura But Leo, don't you think it is too much 'masculine' kind of approach (and not balanced)?

I reffer only to the last message you wrote.

What I wrote will apply regardless of whether you take a masculine or feminine approach.

Which approach you take it up to you. My style is my style. You don't have to like it or follow it.

Quote

If spirituality means less safety and less stability, doesn't it contradict what we want to add to our life through it?

No

You are confusing two things: truth and what your ego wants. Spirituality in its purest form means more truth, whatever that entails. It might entail an early death (as in the case of Jesus) or a long life (as in the case of The Buddha). But truth is truth regardless of its consequences on the ego.

The point is not that spirituality ultimately leads to less stability, the opposite is the case if you do it right. The problem is that there are many traps, many ways to screw it up along the way. And even if you tell people about all the traps, they will still not listen and fall into them.

But also don't forget the many dangers of not doing this work. It's not as though your life will go smoothly if you avoid this work. The opposite is the case.

[Annoynymous]

@Leo Gura it seems like you damned if you do and damned if you don't kind of situation.

[Leo Gura]

16 minutes ago, Annoynymous said:

@Leo Gura it seems like you damned if you do and damned if you don't kind of situation.

Of course, otherwise it would have been resolved a thousand years ago. These are profound existential challenges of a cosmic order requiring millions of deaths to understand and transcend. This is life and death stuff we're dealing with. It doesn't get any more serious than this.

And yet ironically it's all a joke in the end.

We (God) are stuck in an existential bind of infinite proportion.

[remember]

but it`s probably more a belly button than a reset button.

[Eph75]

Lucky thing the critisism is only imagination 

I do think that with all the mental illness and intrinsic toxicity on the forum, a lot of posts could be more helpful towards the cognitive state in whomever asks questions are at. 

To someone that is far from having insights, people who are already seriously confused and suffering, getting the profound insight joke treatment/approach can be harmful. 

A lot of people give shine to being insightful in one thread but show serious mental issues/illness in the next asking really trivial questions from a conscionsness perspective. 

People probably try to live up to an image of being something they're not. Touche!

Edited January 2, 2020 by Eph75

[Annoynymous]

@Leo Gura As God, why would we put ourselves in such a difficult position?

Suffering is the no 1 feature of  most human lives. Desire leads to suffering. Expectations lead to suffering. Why as God would we create this hell for us which is paradox and difficult?

Most important thing is almost 99% of the people would die not bothering about spirituality. It seems like poetic irony.   

[mandyjw]

I'm trying to take care of a puppy and two young kids while I have a stomach bug. Will it help me feel better if I talk and think about what a terrible idea it was to have kids and get a puppy when I'm in the middle of it now? No. I chose this.

It's like being mad because the road takes you a bit off course so you can drive around a mountain instead of going over it. 

You chose your spiritual work. You have to own it. You didn't choose the suffering, you chose to feel better. Why would you blame the initial decision to feel better? Of course it's not going to take you straight to your destination without a few twists. Where's the adventure in that? 

 

[Leo Gura]

26 minutes ago, Annoynymous said:

@Leo Gura As God, why would we put ourselves in such a difficult position?

Infinite Love

26 minutes ago, Annoynymous said:

Why as God would we create this hell for us which is paradox and difficult?

There is no hell outside your selfish perception.