Husseinisdoingfine

Why not join a religion?

45 posts in this topic

If Buddhism contains a lot of truth to it, than why not join a zen temple, and enlighten myself with my community by my side? If religion evolves, than why not embrace a 'turquoise' version of a religion?


لا إله إلا الله، وليو رسول الله

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@Husseinisdoingfine There is no religion at turquoise, religion is a stage blue phenomena. Maybe you can get enlightened in a monastery but you won’t be necessarily turquoise.  

At turquoise you would not belong anywhere. At turquoise, identity becomes universal, not related to a limited identity. Belonging to a religion would be a silly notion. You may have religious preferences to get you enlightened, but that’s about it.

Also, going to a monastery might not necessarily be the most wholistic approach, there are so many things they don’t teach you, and not to mention all the dogma they do teach.


“Many talk like philosophers yet live like fools.” — Proverb

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Buddhism is full of dogmas, they don't understand what they teach for the most part, like any religion.

Even Zen is full of dogmas.

You can't transmit any of this collectively, because at some point someone will just guess what the scriptures mean, instead of really understanding, which is direct experience.

If you want to revere a book or a marble idol, religion is what you need, but if you want God, you don't need anything, because God is you.

Religion is the biggest heresy  ?

Edited by Shin

Spirituality is not the renunciation of life

It is the art of living fully

 

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Religion has so many moving parts to it. It strikes me as utterly futile to try and put it neatly into a box of either "good" or "bad", not than anyone else is doing that here. I think at least in terms of the major religions, there is plenty in each religion to significantly elevate consciousness, self-actualisation, and a sense of purpose and meaning for want of better words. Of course, the reverse can also be true, but that is the human condition, to make foul something which is intrinsically good. 

1 hour ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

enlighten myself with my community

You are on the right track with this comment. 

Most people who are leading good lives under the umbrella of their religious practice are simply not on forums or YouTube debating and arguing. They don't need to be. The results speaks for itself. Many, many people are making good use of religion. It's easy to shit on religion. 

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Once you create a religion it will eventually turn into something completely skewed from the original conception. I am sure there is a lot of truth to be found in religions still, but wouldn't you rather have you own mind guide you to where you want to go? I think that is a huge piece of this path is to self direct yourself and create a path that is unique to yourself. 

 

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@Radical Quit telling me to pursue the lesser jihad

Edited by Husseinisdoingfine

لا إله إلا الله، وليو رسول الله

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1 minute ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

@Radical Quit telling me to join Hezbollah...

If you start a thread on religion you need to keep it sensible or it will be locked

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I remember how this forum used to be radical, like 3 years ago it was probs the most radical forum you could find online. Ideas that spread here could’ve blow and change your life. All these spirituality was so fresh and new back then, kundalini, meditation, enlightenment, Jed mckenna etc. Leo was like crazy radical, making metaphysical revolution through YouTube. It was cool. But now forum a bit lost it’s radical approach and became more like traditionalistic. I guess that inevitably happens to everything.

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2 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

@Radical Quit telling me to join Hezbollah...

Are you saying you want to stay a heretic ?

Do you like stones ?

?


Spirituality is not the renunciation of life

It is the art of living fully

 

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Go join a religion if that’s your path.

Eventually you’ll see that’s complete BS and that all masters of religions were and always will point to the same thing- THIS. 


'One is always in the absolute state, knowingly or unknowingly for that is all there is.' Francis Lucille. 

'Peace and Happiness are inherent in Consciousness.' Rupert Spira 

“Your own Self-Realization is the greatest service you can render the world.” Ramana Maharshi

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You can't really believe in something if you don't really... believe in it.  If you can already see through something, you can't come to believe in it, somewhere in your mind you will know you are just trying to believe in it.  Something truly believed in, from the first person perspective, isn't thought to be believed in, it's thought to be true.  It's hard to choose to believe in something, for it to really be believed in it has to be found to be true.  If it's just chosen to be believed in, somewhere within the mind it is known that mechanism  of trying to believe in it is the foundaition of it, rather than it being the real truth.  So it seems if you don't just believe in a religion truly, it won't ever become believed in by you unless it comes to be found as true.  So if you truly believe in a religion then go for it, if not it won't truly work, unless you become truly convinced with no self deception, through fair lucid evaluation of it.

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16 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

If Buddhism contains a lot of truth to it, than why not join a zen temple, and enlighten myself with my community by my side?

If you already believe the underlined, then you've already joined Buddhism. Congrats!

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@LfcCharlie4

16 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

Go join a religion if that’s your path.

Eventually you’ll see that’s complete BS and that all masters of religions were and always will point to the same thing- THIS. 

Charlie. I am asking this not because I am coming after you. I just know from experience you don't get defensive and i am trying to learn here that's all. Not to make other people wrong and me right.

Now you can give a long answer to this if you want. I will read it. But, the question is a straightforward one that hopefully has a straightforward answer.

Do you think you know enough to make this statement? The one I quoted you on. You don't need to justify it. You might just say it's your gut feeling to make a statement like that. 

 

EDIT. Lol I am saying it's a simple question but I am typing chapter and verse. I wanted to add my motives here in the spirit of honesty. I value 'not knowing' mind as a principle because it can help check my arrogance and keep me open minded before I start jumping to conclusions and closing my open mind down. BUT I wonder sometimes if I am using this as a get out clause for making a committment to ideas or thoughts. Basically when I question if YOU KNOW enough to make a grand statement like that, am i simply projecting at you because it rubs me up the wrong way OR are you actually a little arrogant? 

So this is more about me than you mate. But welcome your feedback.

Could I be subtly calling out people for arrogance because I'm projecting my own uncertainty about things?

 

Edited by Bill W

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20 hours ago, Radical said:

All these spirituality was so fresh and new back then, kundalini, meditation, enlightenment,

 

20 hours ago, Radical said:

But now forum a bit lost it’s radical approach and became more like traditionalistic.

None of those things were new, they were new to ..you, and maybe others, at that time, but definitely not new. So, you are just use to it now and the "mind blowing-ness" has worn off.

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21 hours ago, Shin said:

Buddhism is full of dogmas, they don't understand what they teach for the most part, like any religion.

Even Zen is full of dogmas.

You can't transmit any of this collectively, because at some point someone will just guess what the scriptures mean, instead of really understanding, which is direct experience.

If you want to revere a book or a marble idol, religion is what you need, but if you want God, you don't need anything, because God is you.

Religion is the biggest heresy  ?

well, that is what used to happen with Buddha and his followers. People outside  the  sangha would scold Buddha for becoming a scam, for teaching nonsense, his followers would shout at them and defend the teachings, while the Buddha would only smile. So, my point is, dogmatism is not necessarily inherent within religion or this or that, but it is within the ego. So may be you are also dogmatic 'against' religion while others are dogmatic 'for' religion. So that's the difference, may be both of you are dogmatic. 

My point is, join or not join a religion, that doesn't matter. Sometimes you might join a religion and achieve enlightenment, many times you might just be dogmatic , but not  joining a religion doesn't necessarily make you 'not' dogmatic, unless you have transcended the ego. Not being dogmatic means you have nothing to defend, you have nothing to be threatened of since you are egoless. 

Answering the OP's question, should you join religion? May be yes may be no.
Should you not join religion? May be yes may be no,
Should you  be a continuous witness? Yes.

Edited by Ibn Sina

"Whatever you do or dream you can begin it. Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it. "   - Goethe
                                                                                                                                 
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1 hour ago, Ibn Sina said:

well, that is what used to happen with Buddha and his followers. People outside  the  sangha would scold Buddha for becoming a scam, for teaching nonsense, his followers would shout at them and defend the teachings, while the Buddha would only smile. So, my point is, dogmatism is not necessarily inherent within religion or this or that, but it is within the ego. So may be you are also dogmatic 'against' religion while others are dogmatic 'for' religion. So that's the difference, may be both of you are dogmatic. 

My point is, join or not join a religion, that doesn't matter. Sometimes you might join a religion and achieve enlightenment, many times you might just be dogmatic , but not  joining a religion doesn't necessarily make you 'not' dogmatic, unless you have transcended the ego. Not being dogmatic means you have nothing to defend, you have nothing to be threatened of since you are egoless. 

Answering the OP's question, should you join religion? May be yes may be no.
Should you not join religion? May be yes may be no,
Should you  be a continuous witness? Yes.

 

I don't think it's a coincidence that lots of teacher weren't religious at all, it makes perfect sense.

You can outsource the Truth, and that's what religion tries to do and make you think it does (to the point you get so delusional that you think a book is giving you all the answers of the universe).

Joining a religion on purpose is just adding additional levels of delusion on top of the millions we already have, that's like installing a hardcore mod on a video game you didn't even started to play.


Spirituality is not the renunciation of life

It is the art of living fully

 

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@Derek White Religion is always evolving, within 50 years, we might even see a stage turquoise Islam. I think it ALREADY exists, with Sufism, who meditate and are Pan-Theistic.


لا إله إلا الله، وليو رسول الله

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