How to contemplate / do self-inquiry without jumping to the conceptual answers/ideas?

[Spiral Wizard]

When I do self-inquiry I cannot stop answering the questions with the conceptual answers I got from videos, books, etc.

How do you contemplate or do self-inquiry without jumping to the conceptual ideas you learned?  

[Telepresent]

Question the veracity of those answers. Do you know them to be true? How and why? Have you been told them and are believing because someone you hold in high estimation says so? What are their qualifications? Maybe people say they're enlightened - how to you know this is true? How can you know? How do you even know there IS such a thing as enlightenment? 

All the answers you are bringing up rest upon foundations. Examine the foundations

[Jonac]

@Spiral Wizard if this is recurrent in your self inquiry practice, then I recommend to try mindfulness. Every time you star conceptualizing name it as:

'conceptual mind'

'analitical mind'

'concepts', 

'I' m analizing things' etc. 

Name it and notice that after you do this the though may dissapear, instanly.

[SriBhagwanYogi]

First do Kriys yogs or any other meditation then Self Inquiry will do You 

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, Spiral Wizard said:

When I do self-inquiry I cannot stop answering the questions with the conceptual answers I got from videos, books, etc.

How do you contemplate or do self-inquiry without jumping to the conceptual ideas you learned?  

I would first recontextualize inquiry. Conceptualizing is great in a certain context. Yet so is playing soccer, climbing trees, painting and self-inquiry. These are just different states of being. The conceptual mode can often be a dominant force. At times the analytical mind can act like the drunken guy at the party that no one can get rid of. 

I imagine watching a beautiful sunset with my gf. She turns to me, gazing in my eyes and says “I’m so happy to be sharing this moment with you”. I then go into conceptual mode and ask her “Who is sharing? Who are you? Are you separate from me? The nondualists would say there is no “you”. That “you” is simply a construct of the mind. And what is a moment? To have a “moment”, we must create a timeline with a past and future, yet this timeline is just an artificial construct and in actuality, there are no moments.”. . . This would totally ruin the post-conceptual essence of sharing the sunset with her. . . Such occurrences go on and on. Last night I was hiking and sensed resonance with a tree. As soon as I started conceptualizing it, it was gone - in a flash. . .

Once I got glimpses, of post-conceptual phenomena, I wanted more. Yet I needed to realize that conceptualization was getting in the way. Yet for me, trying to repress it created immersion into a conceptualization vs a non-conceptualization conflict. I found it much better to simply let go of it. The conceptualizing mind may through a fit and want to be the center of attention - just let it be in the noise in the background. Tell your mind that in this moment, we have bigger fish to fry.

I find any practice that quiets the mind to be helpful. Yoga, time in nature, listening to nonduality speakers, meditation, sensory deprivation tanks etc. For example, while walking in nature the question “What is genuine?” may arise. Books and theory is unnecessary. It’s actually a distraction. Everything needed to inquire “What is genuine”, is all around me as I walk through nature. All I need to do is allow the conceptualizing thoughts to drift off into the background and observe what is right now. Various essences and insights will arise and then disappear. No grasping or attachment. Later that night, I return home and conceptualize for an hour or so, and that’s fine too. 

 

[Schahin]

I dont know if it helps to you cause I reached it through some mild psychedelics (HBWR) and perpetual dryfasting. 

But i realized that what you need to do is just to be aware, that self inquiry is not sonething to be answered byt you'll know when it makes Aha. 

You keep looking at yourself first and realize that yoy are aware of your body, theoretical knowledge about the illusion of the ego is needed for this and must be embraced. 

So you are aware of your body and you realize that it is "you" the ever persistinf feeling of you that is aware of the body. Realize that you are the awareness that is aware of this/your body. Never forget to love yourself. 

Then also look around and see that"you" are awarw if the surroundings also and therefore you are aware of evertything and you are everything.

Dry fasting helps immensely if you arent ready for psychedelics yet

 

[whatthefucksgoinon]

realise that you're not gonna get an answer. Your that which is AWARE of the question "who am I". 

[Guru Fat Bastard]

4 hours ago, whatthefucksgoinon said:

realize that you're not gonna get an answer. Your that which is AWARE of the question "who am I". 

Lol,you just gave him another answer to use.
Whatever you heard or read is only assumed to be true,you don't really know.
Inquire "who am I as not a thought or idea"? This negates any thought that arises right off the bat.  Take it as a rule that Any thought that comes to mind is to be automatically rejected as untrue. Note that self inquiry is questioning the very existence of "I",not to verify it's existence as "I am this or that."
 

Edited December 27, 2019 by Guru Fat Bastard

[LfcCharlie4]

Ramana 'invented' inquiry for those who were not ready for the teaching of silence, the highest teaching of all. 

Therefore, the purpose of Self Inquiry is to ask yourself once 'Who is the one aware of this ....' or 'Who am I' or some variant of this question, and then rest in the silence, rest in the absolute. 

If this doesn't resonate with you try Natural Pure Awareness meditation. 

[Guru Fat Bastard]

insight comes from the silence prior to thought. Insight is a spontaneous revelation from the infinite intelligence not previously collected by the intellect and stored as memory. Thoughts are learned,conditioned conceptual ideas gathered from memory. What "you" already "know" is of the past and can never be a new,and spontaneous revelation. "Spontaneous revelation" is often referred to as "flash of insight".

Edited December 27, 2019 by Guru Fat Bastard

[Guru Fat Bastard]

Just sit (i.e., rest/relax) in the silence. Waiting implies expectation,and if you're waiting for something to arise you're not resting in the silence. There is an agitation in the mind there. A still mind is a silent mind. If the body is tense and the mind is highly active,inquiry is going to be difficult. So definitely take that into consideration.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Guru Fat Bastard

[Guru Fat Bastard]

Apologies .
Didn't mean to answer for @LfcCharlie4

Edited December 27, 2019 by Guru Fat Bastard

[WelcometoReality]

22 hours ago, Spiral Wizard said:

When I do self-inquiry I cannot stop answering the questions with the conceptual answers I got from videos, books, etc.

How do you contemplate or do self-inquiry without jumping to the conceptual ideas you learned?  

The mind will try to come up with answers. That's what the mind does but what is important to recognize is that every answer that the mind comes up with is not the answer to tye question.

You ask: what am I?

The mind answers: I'm this person.

Which is a thought so that can't be true. So you ask again, what am I?

The mind answers: I'm consciousness. Which is a thought. A thought of consciousness is not consciousness. That can't be true so you ask again and again and again until the mind quiets down. The answer comes as something broader than mind.

[LfcCharlie4]

@Spiral Wizard Yes, no answer with words will ever be correct, they are all concepts, that's why no word could ever utter the ultimate truth, and all words are pointers and tools, same as books and videos and whatever other medium is being used. 

Also, inquiry is an all day affair 24/7 until you arrive at the unbreakable silence. 

This link will get deleted but this book is like $6 on Kindle, only problem with Ramana for newbies is they struggle to add context to the eastern teachings, plus a translation can never be 100% perfect (e.g. Buddha never said not to desire, yet look at how common knowledge that is!) 

https://www.amazon.com/Who-Meditation-Self-Inquiry-Self-Realization-Tradition-ebook/dp/B00OZYIXE2/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

@Guru Fat Bastard thanks mate  

 

[Nahm]

@LfcCharlie4 I think it’s fine to paste a link. If I’m not mistaken, the concern of the guidelines is posting the material. I’d guess the publisher & author are ok with the free advertising. 

[Nahm]

On 12/26/2019 at 7:59 AM, Spiral Wizard said:

When I do self-inquiry I cannot stop answering the questions with the conceptual answers I got from videos, books, etc.

....“Who’s aware of that thought”

[whatthefucksgoinon]

@Guru Fat Bastard

15 hours ago, Guru Fat Bastard said:

Lol,you just gave him another answer to use.
Whatever you heard or read is only assumed to be true,you don't really know.
Inquire "who am I as not a thought or idea"? This negates any thought that arises right off the bat.  Take it as a rule that Any thought that comes to mind is to be automatically rejected as untrue. Note that self inquiry is questioning the very existence of "I",not to verify it's existence as "I am this or that."
 

I gave him straight truth dawg

[purerogue]

18 hours ago, Spiral Wizard said:

@LfcCharlie4 thanks! So you say I should ask the question and then wait/meditate in silence?

Try to put  intention, awareness on what you want to find without actually making the question,  and meditate in silence, that mans no thoughts , or trying to come up with ideas,  by the way can you be more specific what kind of inquire you are talking about? 

 

[Nahm]

@Spiral Wizard

It is also helpful to know & notice there is a muscular tension in the body which corresponds to the “holding onto” of the thought, the resistance. Take deep breaths, relax, and notice the exact location in the body where the tension, which might be minuscule, is. 

Relax the muscle by ‘sending the let go signal’ to it, and feeling the let go of it. Then return to the inquiry. Also, if you haven’t calmed the mind with basic meditation, self inquiry might not be ideal for you. 

[lostmedstudent]

On 2019-12-26 at 0:16 PM, Serotoninluv said:

I would first recontextualize inquiry. Conceptualizing is great in a certain context. Yet so is playing soccer, climbing trees, painting and self-inquiry. These are just different states of being. The conceptual mode can often be a dominant force. At times the analytical mind can act like the drunken guy at the party that no one can get rid of. 

I imagine watching a beautiful sunset with my gf. She turns to me, gazing in my eyes and says “I’m so happy to be sharing this moment with you”. I then go into conceptual mode and ask her “Who is sharing? Who are you? Are you separate from me? The nondualists would say there is no “you”. That “you” is simply a construct of the mind. And what is a moment? To have a “moment”, we must create a timeline with a past and future, yet this timeline is just an artificial construct and in actuality, there are no moments.”. . . This would totally ruin the post-conceptual essence of sharing the sunset with her. . . Such occurrences go on and on. Last night I was hiking and sensed resonance with a tree. As soon as I started conceptualizing it, it was gone - in a flash. . .

Once I got glimpses, of post-conceptual phenomena, I wanted more. Yet I needed to realize that conceptualization was getting in the way. Yet for me, trying to repress it created immersion into a conceptualization vs a non-conceptualization conflict. I found it much better to simply let go of it. The conceptualizing mind may through a fit and want to be the center of attention - just let it be in the noise in the background. Tell your mind that in this moment, we have bigger fish to fry.

I find any practice that quiets the mind to be helpful. Yoga, time in nature, listening to nonduality speakers, meditation, sensory deprivation tanks etc. For example, while walking in nature the question “What is genuine?” may arise. Books and theory is unnecessary. It’s actually a distraction. Everything needed to inquire “What is genuine”, is all around me as I walk through nature. All I need to do is allow the conceptualizing thoughts to drift off into the background and observe what is right now. Various essences and insights will arise and then disappear. No grasping or attachment. Later that night, I return home and conceptualize for an hour or so, and that’s fine too. 

 

What about basic self help books though? I find they help with building a healthier emotional state