Sad but True; There are no illusions. You're just unable to accept yourself.

[Ananta]

5 minutes ago, Highest said:

Unconscioussness is real. 

And, in case it wasn't already clear ?

From my pov is that it exists, but it is not ultimately "real".

I will agree to disagree at this point.?

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

32 minutes ago, Highest said:

Illusion: Here I am. 

Human: You God damn unreal thing. 

Just by giving it a name, you created it, gave it existence and meaning. To go full circle is to become conscious that reality is illusion and vice versa. Illusion itself is reality. 

 

 

The is no illusion in pure being. It is prior to the creation of an illusion. Illusion is the ego self. 

[Highest]

4 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

And, in case it wasn't already clear ?

From my pov it exists, but it is not ultimately "real".

I will agree to disagree at this point.?

I see that which exists as real. I think that's where our perspective differ, but yeah we can agree to disagree. For now at least ?

3 minutes ago, TrynaBeTurquoise said:

The is no illusion in pure being. It is prior to the creation of an illusion. Illusion is the ego self. 

A ego self which never the less is real as fuck or you wouldn't mention it so much. Illusory doesn't mean unreal. Nothing is unreal, including illusion itself. 

[SgtPepper]

Its both. 

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

5 minutes ago, Highest said:

I see that which exists as real. I think that's where our perspective differ, but yeah we can agree to disagree. For now at least ?

A ego self which never the less is real as fuck or you wouldn't mention it so much. Illusory doesn't mean unreal. Nothing is unreal, including illusion itself. 

The ego is a concept. The only "real" thing about the concept is the structure of it, the fact that it "is", not the content. 

"The ego is real"= a thought taking place in your mind, the presence of the thought is actual (if thats what we are defining real as, actual) the content of the thought is not actual

[Highest]

4 minutes ago, TrynaBeTurquoise said:

The ego is a concept. The only "real" thing about the concept is the structure of it, the fact that it "is", not the content. 

"The ego is real"= a thought taking place in your mind, the presence of the thought is actual (if thats what we are defining real as, actual) the content of the thought is not actual

So content is unreal then? No, content itself is part of reality. Concepts, thoughts taking place in your mind, is real. Point to me in your direct experience something that's literally non-existent. If you do, I will accept it as unreal. 

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

1 minute ago, Highest said:

So content is unreal then? No, content itself is part of reality. Concepts, thoughts taking place in your mind, is real. Point to me in your direct experience something that's literally non-existent. If you do, I will accept it as unreal. 

Yes, content not being actual is precisely the illusion. Because there is a conceptual overlay over every automatic experience of your conditioned mind. The entire function of your perception is not about recognizing the true nature of whats in front of you but adding value judgements and labels to everything to help survive what you think you are and identify with, not what you actually are. The content is just language and symbols, which only have meaning what you assign their meaning to be.

Heres where I encourage you to inquire: Theres nothing non-existent in my direct experience, you are right. The thoughts containing content do in fact exist, they are there. But the content of the thought is not actual. The thought of an apple is not an apple. It is a thought. You cant eat the thought of an apple or sit on the thought of a chair. 

[Highest]

2 minutes ago, TrynaBeTurquoise said:

Yes, content not being actual is precisely the illusion. Because there is a conceptual overlay over every automatic experience of your conditioned mind. The entire function of your perception is not about recognizing the true nature of whats in front of you but adding value judgements and labels to everything to help survive what you think you are and identify with, not what you actually are. The content is just language and symbols, which only have meaning what you assign their meaning to be.

Heres where I encourage you to inquire: Theres nothing non-existent in my direct experience, you are right. The thoughts containing content do in fact exist, they are there. But the content of the thought is not actual. The thought of an apple is not an apple. It is a thought. You cant eat the thought of an apple or sit on the thought of a chair. 

That's all I wanted to hear. What's actual and not is another topic, I'm interested in what's real and existent. 

[VeganAwake]

Illusions remain Illusions until they aren't any more ?

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

7 minutes ago, Highest said:

That's all I wanted to hear. What's actual and not is another topic, I'm interested in what's real and existent. 

Notice how I said the "thoughts containing content" are real, not "the content is real" hehe

[Highest]

1 minute ago, TrynaBeTurquoise said:

Notice how I said the "thoughts containing content" are real, not "the content is real" hehe

So what is the content? Since you speak about it, surely it must exist in your direct experience somehow? 

 

[Dlavjr]

I mean is anybody really wrong? Isn't the point of the "strange loop" concept that reality is a massive paradox? Everything within it exists BECAUSE it's reality itself, but simultaneously reality is an illusion, because it is all infinite possibilities happening at once. Nothing either "exists" or "doesn't exist", it's both. That's why when you get deep into this work (at least in my experience) you can't tell the difference between your day to day life and a dream, because it's all imaginary. All there is or ever will be is now, reality as a constant, which in itself is both everything and nothing, real and unreal. You could loop this argument back and forth and never get anywhere imo.

[SoonHei]

@Inliytened1 let me give you some illusory burn cream 

With some love of course! ♥️❣️♥️

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, SoonHei said:

@Inliytened1 let me give you some illusory burn cream 

With some love of course! ♥️❣️♥️

Please! Hehe

[Gili Trawangan]

"It's real."

"No, it's imaginary."

"No, it's an illusion.“

IT IS. I AM.

[Corpus]

This is a good thread, and I like OPs thoughts- which are fully real, but not in the way that they might appear (to some).

And that IMHO is the crux.

Using a glib medical analogy- many here seem to be "making themselves ill" working on developing TonyParsonsitis or a Malignant JimNewmanoma. 

The Advaita-tron abiding in Non Dual reality still has bills to pay and interestingly (or sinisterly/perversely) they achieve this by feeding their non-existent bodies on the wages of the seekers. Its less hard to be "peaceful and enlightened" when your crust comes from talking to a rapt audience than if you had to do a job which required ready access to knowledge (ie no 20 second pauses before acting) with really "real" consequences if not done well. Think of a pilot or a neurosurgeon.

Overthink a little less but skilfully use the ability (or "burden") of thinking and purify your intentions. Live the life and realise that flexibility of where one chooses to be grounded as it all proceeds is the route to a less miserable constricted life.

The world does not really need more gurus.

 

[Nivsch]

10 hours ago, Anna1 said:

Imho, what's is happening ..now.. exists, but it's not ultimately "real". In that sense, its compared to a dream. When you waken from it, you realize it wasn't true, not in the absolute sense.

You processed it in some way and this is why its all imagination.

Everything is processed by you and in this sense 99.99% of your reality is imagined.

But the direct experience - seeing, hearing, feeling (before the processing) is real.

I see a person. Maybe "person" is just a concept, but the vision itself is real.

Edited December 19, 2019 by Nivsch

[Ananta]

12 hours ago, Nivsch said:

But the direct experience - seeing, hearing, feeling (before the processing) is real.

You misunderstand what I mean.

The seeing, hearing, feeling, etc... "exists" at the time its seen, heard, felt but is ultimately "unreal" as well (it comes and goes).

The only thing that does not come and go is you, awareness. The one that "is aware" of the seeing, hearing, feeling, etc.

So, one's definition of "real" may be different from mine, so be it. Also, to me, something "exists" if it was experienced or that's how I'm using the word, but that doesn't mean it was real, such as a dream.

 

[ivankiss]

@Anna1 Why separate awareness from everything else that "comes and goes" ?

Everything is aware of itself, just as it is - standing still or passing by. There is no one outside. It is all self-aware.

It is all here and now. Nothing is ever gone or thrown away. It's just that you are not tuned into it all. You are tuned into one moment at a time. It would be too overwhelming to be aware of everything at once. It would lead to permanent, crystallized stillness. 

Even that is very possible and real.

 

[Eu Sint]

53 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

The seeing, hearing, feeling, etc... "exists" at the time its seen, heard, felt but is ultimately "unreal" as well (it comes and goes).

Indeed, but for the one who is not firmly established in this permanent awareness of his ultimate reality as Pure Consciousness, there are still comes and goes, real and unreal.

 

54 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

The only thing that does not come and go is you, awareness

It’s True ❤️