kriya yoga - where to start?

[MountainCactus]

8 minutes ago, Spiral Wizard said:

Love it!

I only knew about the astral body, but what is the causal body?

Is Om Japa a form of meditation? Where can I learn it?

The causal body is also known as the thought body. When you have a dream it is your consciousnesses thought that creates the idea of the characters, then the energy in the brain that brings them to life in a way that can be sensed. In a way this is like what the causal body is like, it is the non-dual God's thought that fundamentally creates the idea of everything. From this causal body thought, the astral body energy forms, and from this energy matter itself takes shape. Matter itself at the smallest most microscopic level is nothing more than condensed energy (E=MC^2). Once again, Yogananda's writings are a great place for a western person to get a good westernized translation into these subjects that is both easy to understand and scripturally accurate.

First Kriya, as taught by Lahiri Mahasaya, was originally named "Om Japa Kriya". Om Japa is one large piece to that technique. The Kriya within the books they mention here (referred to as "spinal breathing) was a modified Kriya that removed the Om Japa from first Kriya, and instead practices Om Japa as separate practice all on it's own (and in the original version of this modification adds the Om Japa back into first Kriya at a later date). I cannot break my oath and give you the Om Japa Kriya I was taught, but I can tell you that you can practice this separate Om Japa practice by simply sitting and going from root to medulla, then medulla back down to root, one at a time placing your concentration in each of the 6 chakras and mentally chanting "Ooooommmm" into it. This even practiced stand alone like this is a very powerful practice that will slowly unravel the "knots" in the chakras. It's not an overnight thing though, it is a slow process, but very effective.

[Spiral Wizard]

First things first, thank you for taking the time to answer in such detail. 

42 minutes ago, MountainCactus said:

I cannot break my oath

I respect that.
But I don’t understand why you had to make an oath? What is the reason behind making a secret out of techniques?

[MountainCactus]

28 minutes ago, Spiral Wizard said:

First things first, thank you for taking the time to answer in such detail. 

I respect that.
But I don’t understand why you had to make an oath? What is the reason behind making a secret out of techniques?

There are many reasons why Lahiri chose to create Kriya as a practice with a one on one teacher/student relationship at it's core. Kriya is a very subtle and complex system. I'm not honestly sure it's actually possible to wander on your own through books and actually find your way to the end point. I started with the books and moved on to a teacher. And the moment I started working directly with a teacher my practices came to life, and I finally started experiencing Yogananda's claim that Kriya was "the airplane route to God". I cherish and respect the techniques, I cherish and respect the teachings and traditions set in place by it's founder Lahiri Mahasaya, and in turn I also cherish and respect the teacher who taught me these techniques, and has spent many hours in person and over the phone helping to guide me on my path, through many difficulties and into the same results that Yogananda and others had written about so long ago. Before I started working with my teacher I had none of these experiences that I had read about so often, and it is wonderful seeing them come to life first hand and having that as confirmation that I am indeed going down the same path that these great masters had described going down. I honestly believe that the one on one student/teacher relationship is an inseparable part of true Kriya, and anyone that gets bit by the Kriya bug from these other sources and decides they want to commit themselves to seeing Kriya through to the end of the path, should seek a teacher as is and always has been the Kriya tradition. A teachers job is not to set themselves up as a point of worship, nor is it to hide anything from anyone. It's to prevent you from getting lost in the dark. These are people that have walked the path through to the end, have helped other people also navigate the treacherous landscape to the end, and can guide you straight to the end without you hitting any of the common pitfalls or wrong turns that can waste years or even decades of time. Either way, my thoughts on this are all in the mega-thread, I do not want to digress too much here, as this is beyond the scope of "where to start" in Kriya. This is more in the realm of how to find the end in Kriya. Kriya is much more than just "techniques". The techniques are only the preliminary work.

Edited December 16, 2019 by MountainCactus

[Esoteric]

@MountainCactus Chakras seems like one of the most muddy and confusing things in all spirituality. You see people with decades of experience dish out completely different explanations of the functions of the chakras and what they represent. Some Tibetan masters say not too stay too much on the anahata as it could result in complications, while others say it is one of the safe ones to rest at. Some say you can rest at ajna and others say you can't make "war on the brain". Muladhara is not safe to rest at either, nor the sacred chakra. Manipura seems like the universally accepted one to rest at from my understanding so far, but there arises the question whether it is actually at the point of the navel or slightly below, and that is called lower dantian/hara in other systems. It's a damn mess lol.

Also, are you saying Lahiri didn't teach/advice Kriya Pranayama at all?

[MountainCactus]

27 minutes ago, Esoteric said:

@MountainCactus Chakras seems like one of the most muddy and confusing things in all spirituality. You see people with decades of experience dish out completely different explanations of the functions of the chakras and what they represent. Some Tibetan masters say not too stay too much on the anahata as it could result in complications, while others say it is one of the safe ones to rest at. Some say you can rest at ajna and others say you can't make "war on the brain". Muladhara is not safe to rest at either, nor the sacred chakra. Manipura seems like the universally accepted one to rest at from my understanding so far, but there arises the question whether it is actually at the point of the navel or slightly below, and that is called lower dantian/hara in other systems. It's a damn mess lol.

Also, are you saying Lahiri didn't teach/advice Kriya Pranayama at all?

Yes, chakras have been muddied. Before the New Age moment got start up it was pretty clear, as all that existed was what was in the eastern scripture. But the westernization of the chakras led to a lot of misinformation and nonsense being spread. You are correct that you do not want to overstimulate the higher or lower chakras, you want to have some degree of balance. The navel is the most grounded chakra, as this is where the "Samana air" is located, which means that this is where the Prana and Apana airs mix. So putting attention there grounds the energy naturally. If you over stimulate the two lower "worldly" chakras you're bound to get lots of negative effects... most commonly you hear people that practice Kundalini Yoga complain about uncontrollable sexual urges from overstimulating the lower two.

Ajna is not making "war on the brain". In the Bhagavad Gita Krishna said that it is above this that is "making war on the brain", meaning the 1,000 petaled lotus in the crown. He stated that the crown itself is heaven. You want to go to heaven, not wage war on it. Ajna is the medulla. The point in between the eyebrows is a reflection of the medulla, and this is where the Kutastha begins. FWIW, the 1,000 petaled lotus does not connect anywhere in the body, it's in going through the star within the Kutastha that you wind up in the 1,000 petalled lotus or "heaven" and this is the end point of Kriya is arriving here. I do find that if I overstimulate the Kutastha or crown I feel deeply drugged and cannot function very well in life. The medulla is more grounded than the Kutastha. The throat is more grounded than the medulla. The heart is more grounded than the throat. And the navel is the ultimate in grounding. As for location of the navel, simply look for where you feel "fear" and this is the chakra. Don't get too stuck on the anatomy and what you've read, feel where it is at and trust what you feel. I suspect these things may not in the exact same anatomical spot for everyone, and this may be why there is so much debate on whether it is an inch or two this way or the other.

The heart can create some complications if way overstimulated in an imbalanced manner... but in Kriya everything is always balanced. The heart is also just as important as the spiritual eye. Ramana Maharshi so eloquently called the heart the "seat of the soul". You cannot live life from Ajna or the 1,000 petalled lotus. It is too far removed from duality, life, and matter. In the higher Kriyas a greater emphasis is placed on the heart than the spiritual eye for this reason. You take the Consciousness, knowledge, and intuition you get in the Ajna and 1000 petalled lotus, and ground it down into the heart, and in the process you become the living expression of pure love and light. This is where you can move forward and change the world. Also, a lot of energy and consciousness gets knotted into the heart. I mean, love is the one feeling that every single person alive would give their own life for. So this is one of the more difficult knots to undo. Have you ever seen "Avatar: The Last Airbender" show? In the episode where Aang was opening his chakras with his guru, the guru told him that he had to give absolutely everything up in order to unlock the 1,000 petaled lotus... but he refused to give up his love for Kitara and that prevented him from making it to the 1,000 petaled lotus. There is so much wisdom in this episode it is sickening. We all have to deal with this, unknotting the heart is a very long and difficult process, but one that needs to be done in order to truly merge with the non-dual.

Lahiri taught the Kriya Yoga system, which uses pranayama. By "Kriya Pranayama" do you mean spinal breathing? If so, no he did not teach that, and in the book "Garland of Letters" (which is available for free on the Yoga Niketan website so you can see for yourself) he specifically states in regards to spinal breathing that "Kriya without Om Japa is tamasic".

[Esoteric]

19 minutes ago, MountainCactus said:

Lahiri taught the Kriya Yoga system, which uses pranayama. By "Kriya Pranayama" do you mean spinal breathing? If so, no he did not teach that, and in the book "Garland of Letters" (which is available for free on the Yoga Niketan website so you can see for yourself) he specifically states in regards to spinal breathing that "Kriya without Om Japa is tamasic".

@MountainCactusInteresting. But from my understanding, and please correct me if I am wrong, doing spinal breathing while placing OM's is Kriya Pranayama, right? He did not teach this? While Om Japa is placing OM's in the chakras but you forget the breath. So spinal breathing, or what the technique Kriya Pranayama is, was invented by either Sriyukteswar or Yogananda? I will read Garland of Letters, been meaning to check that out for a long time.

Also I read in a youtube post from Forrest Knutson that you shouldn't do Om Japa in the chakras for too long. Do you agree? If so, what is "too long"? And what is the reasoning?

[MountainCactus]

25 minutes ago, Esoteric said:

@MountainCactusInteresting. But from my understanding, and please correct me if I am wrong, doing spinal breathing while placing OM's is Kriya Pranayama, right? He did not teach this? While Om Japa is placing OM's in the chakras but you forget the breath. So spinal breathing, or what the technique Kriya Pranayama is, was invented by either Sriyukteswar or Yogananda? I will read Garland of Letters, been meaning to check that out for a long time.

Also I read in a youtube post from Forrest Knutson that you shouldn't do Om Japa in the chakras for too long. Do you agree? If so, what is "too long"? And what is the reasoning?

There are other differences in spinal breathing other than just the elimination of Om Japa. So no, just adding Om Japa back in is not the same technique Lahiri taught... though it's at least a better version than without.

I think that the spinal breathing started from Yogananda, as the Yoga Niketan guys branched off of Sriyukteswar and they also have the proper technique. I'm not sure why Yogananda changed it, but I want to believe it was well intentioned. I mean, being a guru in 1920's America had to have it's challenges. But one also needs to look at Yogananda's system as a whole. While he taught spinal breathing, he added Om Japa back in during his version of 2nd Kriya. He also taught people to do Om Japa as a separate practice. He also severely limited the number of Kriyas one could do. He also added in Hong Sau, AUM, and the Energization Exercises. In away, Hong Sau is almost his replacement for Om Japa Kriya, as you'll see when you read GoL that Lahiri recommended people practice 100's or even 1000's of Kriyas in a session. One cannot do that with spinal breathing without overloading. So when Yogananda added in Hong Sau he kind of added in the sublime calming practice that one could practice for long hours. Yogananda also added in encouragement for renunciation, as well as external practices for Bhakti, Jnana, and Karma yogas. So one really has to look at the full system. Just pulling the spinal breathing technique alone out of all of that and thinking that alone is where the magic is in his system is simply not true. It's the whole that is greater than the sum of the parts in Kriya.

Can you link me the post from Forrest? Was that Forrest himself that said this? The number of Om Japa's one should do is highly individual, and tends to change over time.

[Esoteric]

16 minutes ago, MountainCactus said:

There are other differences in spinal breathing other than just the elimination of Om Japa. So no, just adding Om Japa back in is not the same technique Lahiri taught... though it's at least a better version than without.

I think that the spinal breathing started from Yogananda, as the Yoga Niketan guys branched off of Sriyukteswar and they also have the proper technique. I'm not sure why Yogananda changed it, but I want to believe it was well intentioned. I mean, being a guru in 1920's America had to have it's challenges. But one also needs to look at Yogananda's system as a whole. While he taught spinal breathing, he added Om Japa back in during his version of 2nd Kriya. He also taught people to do Om Japa as a separate practice. He also severely limited the number of Kriyas one could do. He also added in Hong Sau, AUM, and the Energization Exercises. In away, Hong Sau is almost his replacement for Om Japa Kriya, as you'll see when you read GoL that Lahiri recommended people practice 100's or even 1000's of Kriyas in a session. One cannot do that with spinal breathing without overloading. So when Yogananda added in Hong Sau he kind of added in the sublime calming practice that one could practice for long hours. Yogananda also added in encouragement for renunciation, as well as external practices for Bhakti, Jnana, and Karma yogas. So one really has to look at the full system. Just pulling the spinal breathing technique alone out of all of that and thinking that alone is where the magic is in his system is simply not true. It's the whole that is greater than the sum of the parts in Kriya.

Can you link me the post from Forrest? Was that Forrest himself that said this? The number of Om Japa's one should do is highly individual, and tends to change over time.

@MountainCactus Ok, thanks for clarifying. Much appreciated. I will see if I can find the video, it was in the comment section on one of his videos, and I think the question wasn't even related to the vid. But I will see.

Edit: Oh and what you wrote about placing an OM in the actual chakra where negative emotion arise sounds like a great idea. I will experiment with this during those intense ego backlashes days, thanks

Edited December 16, 2019 by Esoteric

[MountainCactus]

19 minutes ago, Esoteric said:

Edit: Oh and what you wrote about placing an OM in the actual chakra where negative emotion arise sounds like a great idea. I will experiment with this during those intense ego backlashes days, thanks

Yes, this is exactly what this is meant to be used for, acute ways to give feedback to your brain to train it that what it is projecting is a false alarm  

[BuddhaTree]

I practice and enjoy Kriya yoga very much. First of all, I’d say that if you are really interested in Kriya, you should read the whole Mega-Thread. If you don’t, that just tells me you are not really interested in Kriya, and I can guarantee you that you will not go far with it.

Second point is that you must not take what is said in this forum concerning Kriya as a rule or as a fact. There are a lot of people that write here that have eloquent speech, but they are simply beginners, and unfortunately, some of them have been deluded by the modern guru-disciple romance or by contemporary organizations. I’ve seen some of that speech lately here (I’m more of a lurker) and it’s always the same thing: romanticized Kriya.

Anyway I don’t want to push you away from the beauty of Kriya. It is beautiful indeed but that beauty comes with dogma, and it’s really hard to distill both. 

As a long term Kriya practitioner I’d suggest you read the Kriya books mentioned in Leo’s booklist and practice the Kriya laid out there. There are different variations, but you will figure out which one suites you.

I agree with @Space. If all you do is read and practice according to the book mentioned in this thread, you will get a sense of certainty and security, but it will lead you in a shallow direction. You will be clueless.

I have found some of the clues in the other Kriya books that you will find in Leo’s list, but the most important thing is to look at Kriya as a way of reaching enlightenment and not as the holy grail of spirituality. Because it is not. Godspeed.

[R-Type]

Beginner question: is Kriya Yoga actually a good point to start at or go to while at a beginner or intermediate level? To me it appears that my ego fell in love with the CONCEPT of enlightenment and likes the idea of Kriya as the best or fastest in order to reach that blissful state. Yet on the other hand, Kriya yoga sounds to me like it's advanced stuff and therefore rather suited to people who have advanced before and bring the right state in order to handle the difficulties that will come along. Like a training technique that gets you to the Olympics, but is not for the average Joe, that hasn't got his basic training and diet right yet... 

Would be cool if someone could elaborate on this. Thanks.

[Pacific Sage]

14 hours ago, Esoteric said:

@MountainCactus .

Edit: Oh and what you wrote about placing an OM in the actual chakra where negative emotion arise sounds like a great idea. I will experiment with this during those intense ego backlashes days, thanks

@MountainCactus 

I second this? Great timing for me! Thank you.

[MountainCactus]

8 hours ago, R-Type said:

Beginner question: is Kriya Yoga actually a good point to start at or go to while at a beginner or intermediate level? To me it appears that my ego fell in love with the CONCEPT of enlightenment and likes the idea of Kriya as the best or fastest in order to reach that blissful state. Yet on the other hand, Kriya yoga sounds to me like it's advanced stuff and therefore rather suited to people who have advanced before and bring the right state in order to handle the difficulties that will come along. Like a training technique that gets you to the Olympics, but is not for the average Joe, that hasn't got his basic training and diet right yet... 

Would be cool if someone could elaborate on this. Thanks.

Kriya is definitely not for the casual yogi. It is for someone who is very serious about their yoga practice. You can see my recommendations for a beginner on the first page here: 

I will elaborate a bit here on this recommendation. The common recommendation on this forum is to read the books, but why do I recommend instead starting with the SRF lessons and a simple HRV breathing meditation? First, the books are overly complex and confusing for a raw beginner. They also add in a lot of things that are unnecessary, and take away a lot of things that are beneficial. In many ways these authors really kind of did their own thing. Second, the thing most people get wrong in Kriya is not breathing properly, so spending time at the beginning working exclusively on your breath and learning how to get deep into pratyahara consistently before you start with any energy practices is the perfect way to ensure you have a successful trip down the Kriya path (this is also part of the reason why Yogananda started people with Hong Sau for many months before giving them first Kriya). The breathing is the most important thing, it is the foundation that the rest of the Kriya pyramid is built upon. It is too common for people to overemphasize the energy practices and underemphasize the breathing, and this kind of puts the cart before the horse. Third, the books do not really do a good job of explaining either the why behind Kriya or the metaphysics behind it. They also add in too many of the authors opinions and are not scripturally sound. The SRF Lessons do explain all of these things very well and in a scripturally sound manner. If you're a beginner, don't you want to know the proper theory behind why you're doing what your doing? The preliminary exercises in the lessons (Hong Sau and AUM in particular) are also a great place to spend your first few months. This does help you get your "basic training and diet right". It helps you work on your breathing and pratyahara with Hong-Sau, and meditative absorption with AUM. These are all things you will be working on perfecting for many years to come, so starting early with a focus on these 3 fundamentals ensures you're ready when it's time to train for the "Olympics". That's my .02 on the matter at least. You're free to do as you wish.

Edited December 17, 2019 by MountainCactus

[lostmedstudent]

@lmfao @Space

a NEWBIE technical question about kriya:

its the prelim exercises that im confused about

1. for the alternate nostril breathing, i keep yawning during it which defeats the purpose of the breathing exercises.. what to do about that?

2. ocean breath: how do i know if im doing it correctly? i watched some videos on youtube but im really not sure how to constrict the throat exactly?

 

thank you !

[lmfao]

@lostmedstudent It really depends on how much you yawn I suppose. A bit strange that you yawn, why is that? Even if there are occasionally breaks in you doing the alternate nostril breathing, as long as it isn't excessive, the desired effect of it should still come about. The alternate nostril breathing makes your normal breathing afterwards more deep and more relaxed. It is similar to ocean breath in some sense because of this.

Yeah I found ocean breath hard to do at first as well. It's like your throat constricts and becomes a thin straw, so air enters it slowly and leaves it slowly. You'll be able to hear the sound of air flowing audibly If done right.

I don't know how to describe the muscles being used to do it. There's some sort of constriction you do in your neck/throat. Pretend you've got some mucus or something stuck in your throat, and experiment with the muscles in that area until you see how to constrict your throat to slow down air flow into the lungs and can hear the sound of the air flow. 

After doing ocean breath, some muscles in my throat feel tired, and I find it hard to do a lot of it. My technique could probably do with improvement in conserving energy. 

[Space]

6 hours ago, lostmedstudent said:

 

a NEWBIE technical question about kriya:

its the prelim exercises that im confused about

1. for the alternate nostril breathing, i keep yawning during it which defeats the purpose of the breathing exercises.. what to do about that?

2. ocean breath: how do i know if im doing it correctly? i watched some videos on youtube but im really not sure how to constrict the throat exactly?

I don't do nostril breathing, and I don't see it as a necessary part of the yoga routine, nor does Leo as far as I understand. It's a nice little technique to help you calm down and relax before a meditation or before your yoga if you want, but don't spend ages on it. If you can't stop yawning during it then don't bother with it.

About ocean breathing, I wouldn't get too caught up with it in the beginning. It's a slightly more advanced technique which takes some practise. To be honest, I could never really do it either. I don't see it as that important, but i'm sure there will be some people who would disagree. 

Just focus on bringing the prana/energy up the spine using mahamudra, pranayama and maybe breath of fire if you can manage it. Make sure to do all the body locks of course. Just work on improving your visualisation of the prana/energy going up the spine. And do lots of it. I successfully brought prana up to the head without doing either of the things you mentioned. Also, being able to feel the spine is not a prerequisite for successful yoga.  

[Ero]

@Spiral Wizard The book list is what I use to jump-start my practice. There's always the option to go traditional with some organisation, but I guarantee you alone is better. 

[lostmedstudent]

@Space thank you space!

i am following what the book suggested in terms of prepping exercises..

did you use the book as well?

 

[lostmedstudent]

@lmfao thank you!!!!

how long did you spend doing the prelim exercises before moving on to the kriya initiation?

[MountainCactus]

@lostmedstudent

Alternate Nostril Breathing - unnecessary. Lahiri actually discouraged people from practicing this, as he said internal pranayama was far superior to external pranayama. You can practice this if you like, but I personally would put my valuable time on the important techniques.

Ocean breath - Also unnecessary to forcefully constrict the throat. If you read Lahiri's letters and diaries he in his own words said that the sound comes over time from perfect practice, and not to force the sounds. People added in the Ujjayi after the fact to "force the sounds". You'll notice if you breathe as slowly as you can when your breath reaches a certain length Ujjayi and the sounds happen all by itself without the need to even think about it. This was what Lahiri was getting at. Work on building up to a 40 second+ Kriya breath, and the Ujjayi and sounds will happen automatically. It's one less thing you have to worry about. Focusing on lengthening the breath is much more important.